Frank Growth

Epizode

• The $10 Million Rule with Seth Lowery 30.06.2026 19min

  Episode #226: Seth Lowery — The $10M rule that kills good ideas, not just bad onesHow to decide which growth bets to fund when every idea on the table already looks good.For marketing and growth leaders drowning in too many opportunities and a team that's too small to chase them all.Seth Lowery is VP of Marketing at Octane, a fintech that has originated over $8 billion in consumer loans and runs both a lending arm (Roadrunner Financial) and an in-house SaaS layer—with close to 50% of the company in product and tech. On Seth's first day, his CEO handed him a single rule: a new initiative needs to clear $10 million in incremental originations to get approved. In this episode he breaks down why that number is a guideline rather than a hard rule, how it forces his team into P1/P2/P3 backlogs, his four-prong method for working with sales, and how he runs three different go-to-market motions—OEMs, dealers, and B2B2C—at the same time.What you'll hear The $10M incremental-originations bar, and why Seth treats it as a compass rather than a cage The four-prong method for sales and marketing: to sales, for sales, through sales, and in lieu of sales Why the hardest no's are the easy internal asks—a better-looking slide deck, an event t-shirt—and why he tells his team "let me be the bad guy" How he runs three GTM motions at once while deliberately keeping Octane's own brand in the backgroundChapters 00:00 — Cold open: the problem isn't too few ideas, it's too many 00:33 — Intro and the initiative-overload problem 02:35 — Lending company or tech company? 03:40 — Where the $10 million rule came from 05:13 — How the rule changes what to run and what to kill 06:30 — The hardest no's and "let me be the bad guy" 07:57 — Running a remote team to results, not hours 08:40 — The four-prong method for sales and marketing 11:21 — Hiring for B2B and channel marketing over fintech 12:15 — Octane's moat: the octane score and the soft pull 12:54 — Running three GTM motions at once 15:04 — The overlooked lever: loyalty 15:34 — The two biggest prioritization mistakes 16:33 — Lightning round 17:53 — Jason's top three takeawaysLinks & resourcesGuestSeth Lowery — VP of Marketing, OctaneWebsiteRoadrunner FinancialLinkedInAbout Frank GrowthFrank Growth is a podcast about how companies actually grow—real operators, real constraints, real decisions. Hosted by Jason Shafton.Promotional links Work with Winston Francois: Work with Winston Francois Subscribe / Follow Jason: Follow Jason on LinkedIn
• The Taylor Swift Effect with Blakely Neilson 23.06.2026 17min

  Episode #225: Blakely Neilson — Building a high-growth EdTech brand when buyers aren't on LinkedInThis episode is a tactical playbook for marketing to a buyer that ignores LinkedIn, retargeting, and white papers: the school district.For operators and founders selling into education, or any relationship-first market where you can't performance-market your way to pipeline.Blakely Neilson came from finance and joined the founding team at Parallel Learning, an EdTech company building virtual special education services for school districts in over 25 states. She built the B2B marketing function from scratch as the company pivoted from DTC to B2B, which meant trading paid social and paid search for conferences, webinars, email, and thought leadership, and shifting the message from emotion and urgency to compliance, scale, and risk mitigation. She gets concrete about what works: a lemonade-stand booth during a California heat wave, a Taylor Swift email sent the minute the engagement news broke, and using AI to track Google alerts so the message can adapt when a district like Wake County cuts $18 million from special education.What you'll hear Why the DTC-to-B2B pivot meant moving from paid acquisition to an organic mix of conferences, webinars, email, and thought leadership, with messaging built around compliance, scale, and risk mitigation How the team pairs marketing with revenue at conferences, sets up pre-conference meetings, and uses creative on-the-ground tactics like a lemonade stand during a heat wave to drive top-of-funnel leads Why leading with "we're radically changing the field through AI" backfires with late-adopter special-ed buyers, and why the message instead focuses on absorbing administrative burden How to keep one core message constant while tailoring execution state by state, using Google alerts to flex when budgets get cutChapters 00:00 — Cold open: why most B2B EdTech marketing is boring 00:27 — Why EdTech marketing breaks the standard playbook 01:33 — Meet Blakely Neilson and Parallel Learning 02:32 — From finance to building marketing through a DTC-to-B2B pivot 03:39 — Building trust with relationship-first district buyers 04:44 — Making conferences a real pipeline driver 05:59 — The webinar formula that stands out post-COVID 07:17 — Marketing an AI product to AI-skeptical buyers 08:27 — Pop culture, the Taylor Swift email, and humanizing B2B 11:05 — Awareness vs. conversion in a two-sided marketplace 11:45 — Scaling across 25 states with Google alerts and AI 13:01 — Sales and marketing operating rhythm 13:50 — Lightning round 15:22 — Jason's top three takeawaysLinks & resourcesGuestBlakely Neilson — Founding team, Parallel LearningWebsiteLinkedIn (Blakely)LinkedIn (Parallel Learning)InstagramAbout Frank GrowthFrank Growth is a podcast about how companies actually grow—real operators, real constraints, real decisions. Hosted by Jason Shafton.Promotional links Work with Winston Francois Subscribe / Follow Jason
• The Bootstrapper's Revenge with Alex Roy 16.06.2026 23min

  Episode #224: Alex Roy — Bootstrapping an AI company for 12 years, no fundingHe founded an AI company in 2014—when AI was a punchline—bootstrapped it with zero outside capital, and landed Fortune 50 clients.For founders and growth operators figuring out how to build (and sell) AI products in a market that shifts every few weeks.Alex Roy is the founder of SalesBox AI, a single-founder, bootstrapped company he started in 2014 after 20+ years in martech (MarketFirst, TrueInfluence). With no outside funding, he reached Fortune 50 clients through a partner-led, agency managed-service model—building the part of the product that generated both capital and data first. In this episode he walks through why he moved from lead-centric to a buying-group, opportunity-centric model, how SalesBox's agents work toward one unified revenue goal, how he proves ROI to enterprises burned by AI promises, and why he says product-market fit now lasts "maybe a month."What you’ll hear Why he scrapped lead-centric and account-based marketing for a revenue/opportunity model that scores and prioritizes buying groups How he bootstrapped: building the managed-service module first to capture both capital and data, then reaching Fortune 50 through a partner-led agency model Where founders go wrong—chasing the hype to "hop off" in a couple of years instead of building, and not yet knowing when to override the agent How to apply it: start with a pilot before a full rollout, and learn how the system makes decisions so you know when to step inChapters 00:00 — Cold open: don't build it for free 00:31 — Intro: the three AI traps 01:50 — What breaks when you scale revenue 02:29 — Betting on AI in 2014 03:39 — Building in 2014 vs. 2026: PMF as a moving target 05:10 — Why bootstrap, and what it cost 05:52 — Landing Fortune 50 clients with no VC logos 06:38 — What makes SalesBox AI different 08:00 — How the platform works 08:51 — Lead to account to buying group 09:45 — Hype vs. real: start with a pilot 10:27 — What AI can't do: knowing when to override 11:37 — Proving ROI to burned enterprises 12:56 — What founders get wrong about timing 14:39 — Advice: get someone to pay the first dollar 15:38 — Lightning round 16:22 — Live demo: RevOps, voice agents, LinkedIn 20:47 — Where to find Alex + the offer 21:28 — Closing takeawaysLinks & resourcesGuestAlex Roy — Founder, SalesBox AIWebsiteLinkedInMentionedGet $1,000 in SalesBox AI creditsAbout Frank GrowthFrank Growth is a podcast about how companies actually grow—real operators, real constraints, real decisions. Hosted by Jason Shafton.Promotional links Work with Winston Francois Subscribe / Follow Jason
• Most Tests Will Fail, That's Fine with Divya Ramaswamy 09.06.2026 21min

  Episode #223: Divya Ramaswamy — Running one growth function across travel and fintechHow a lean team runs acquisition, retention, and cross-sell across a travel marketplace and a fintech suite on a single brand.For growth leaders who own multiple products serving one customer across very different trust thresholds.Divya Ramaswamy runs growth across travel and fintech at Super.com—acquisition, activation, retention, and cross-sell—on a lean team of around 16 people. The products span hotels, flights, cash advance, credit, cash back, direct deposits, and a new pharmacy product, built for everyday Americans that premium brands typically walk past. She explains how the Super+ membership ties these disparate products together, why turning a $79 hotel booking into a fintech relationship is the hardest conversion they face, and what building financial trust actually requires beyond performance marketing. She also walks through the company's first major brand push—New York subway and out-of-home ads, plus becoming NASCAR's official savings partner—and why ruthless prioritization is the underrated lever that keeps the team focused.What you’ll hear Why Super+ membership is the flywheel that ties travel and fintech together, not just a perk layer on top (the “house and rooms” frame) How the team predicts cross-product adoption using behavioral signals—booking frequency, product bundles, in-app activity like games and surveys—alongside direct user research Why a direct travel-to-fintech handoff doesn’t happen, and how they build the journey through “value moments” instead (cashback on headphones, gas savings on the drive to a hotel) How they split channels by intent—Google for demand capture, Meta for storytelling—and use quarterly OKR resets to ruthlessly prioritize on a lean teamChapters 00:00 — Why trust in fintech can never be taken for granted (cold open) 00:29 — Intro: one growth function across travel and fintech 02:16 — What Super.com is, in one sentence 02:42 — The day-to-day operating model: acquisition to cross-sell 03:40 — Running one growth function across products that don’t behave alike 04:32 — The Super+ membership flywheel (house and rooms) 05:59 — The customer Super.com is built for 07:01 — Turning a $79 hotel booking into a fintech relationship 08:19 — Signals for predicting cross-product adoption 09:22 — Channel strategy built on customer context, not product category 10:20 — Google vs. Meta: capturing demand vs. storytelling 11:36 — What building financial trust actually requires 12:36 — The brand push: NYC subway and out-of-home 13:43 — Betting on quality creative and the NASCAR partnership 14:45 — One creative team, one brand voice across products 15:44 — The most underrated growth lever: prioritization 16:51 — Hard lessons on meaningful testing and embracing failure 17:57 — Advice for leading a complex product portfolio 18:33 — Lightning round 19:15 — Where to find Divya + closing takeawaysLinks & resourcesGuestDivya Ramaswamy — leads growth (travel and fintech) at Super.comWebsiteLinkedInAbout Frank GrowthFrank Growth is a podcast about how companies actually grow—real operators, real constraints, real decisions. Hosted by Jason Shafton.Promotional links Work with Winston Francois Subscribe / Follow Jason
• Getting a CFO on Board with Your Growth Plan with Simon Heyrick 02.06.2026 36min

  Episode #222: Simon Heyrick — How CFOs become real growth partnersWhat it actually takes to turn your CFO into a growth ally instead of a gatekeeper.For founders, CEOs, and CMOs trying to align finance with marketing and growth investments.Simon Heyrick is the CFO of Sun World International and was Jason's CFO and then CEO at Soothe. In this conversation, Simon walks through what changes the moment you step into the CEO seat ("overnight, there was a shift in the relationships"), what every CFO role across green Dot, Soothe, and Sun World has had in common, and how he evaluates growth pitches from CMOs. He shares the story of Soothe's brand refresh that didn't survive a single board member's objection, the TV spend he'd take back in hindsight, and why at Sun World — a 50-year-old PE-backed agriculture IP business — the finance model runs out 25 years and the data sets matter more than the AI strategy.What you'll hear The two CFO archetypes — growth partner vs. growth gatekeeper — and how risk tolerance separates them How to pitch growth investments to a CFO without getting dismissed (skip the impression counts, bring an intellectually honest ROI story) Why institutional investors rarely understand operations, and how to manage the "feet below the surface" dynamic What Simon learned moving from tech and marketplaces to a 50-year-old agriculture IP company where customers are farmers, not consumersChapters 00:00 — Stepping into the CEO seat: the loneliness shift 00:54 — Introducing Simon Heyrick 02:19 — The through line across a CFO career 05:37 — From CFO to interim CEO at Soothe 08:33 — What translates across every CFO role: managing institutional investors and the under-promise / over-deliver rule 11:32 — The growth bet Simon greenlit and the brand refresh that didn't land 14:16 — Growth partner CFO vs. growth gatekeeper CFO 17:21 — How CMOs should (and shouldn't) pitch growth investments 21:53 — Inside Sun World: a 50-year-old PE-backed agriculture IP business 24:31 — Climate risk, varietal IP, and a 25-year forecast model 25:56 — Data as the linchpin of the AI strategy 28:07 — Lessons across five C-level roles, and advice to a younger Simon 30:57 — Lightning round 32:33 — What a founder should do this week to turn their CFO into a partner 34:17 — Jason's three takeawaysLinks & resourcesGuestSimon Heyrick — CFO, Sun World InternationalWebsiteLinkedInAbout Frank GrowthFrank Growth is a podcast about how companies actually grow—real operators, real constraints, real decisions. Hosted by Jason Shafton.Promotional links Work with Winston Francois Subscribe / Follow Jason
• Stop Selling. Start Method Acting. with John O'Donnell 26.05.2026 23min

  Episode #221: John O'Donnell — Selling AI Trust When Your Best Outcome Is InvisibleHow do you sell infrastructure that works best when nothing bad happens?For GTM leaders, founders, and sellers building pipeline in category-creating, mission-critical sales motions.John O'Donnell leads go-to-market at Alice, where he sells AI trust and safety to the top foundation model companies and the enterprises deploying AI in production. Before Alice, he built pipeline at Rapid7 in cybersecurity and led GTM in music distribution. In this episode, John breaks down his "method acting" approach to selling, why storytelling beats feature pitches in invisible-infrastructure categories, the milestone approach Alice uses to convert AI FOMO into committed deals, and why he sees the AI trust category today as the cybersecurity space in 2008-2010. He also shares the one discovery question most enterprise sellers never ask: "Can you live with your current situation for another year?"What you'll hear The "method acting" framework for entering a buyer's world before the first call Why Alice leans on storytelling and 200+ PhD dark web experts instead of feature pitches The milestone approach for converting AI FOMO buyers into committed deals What breaks when you scale founder-led sales too fast, and how to train a team to replicate itChapters 00:00 — Cold open and the three GTM traps in invisible-infrastructure sales 02:56 — Method acting: living inside the buyer's character 06:13 — Marketing something mission-critical but invisible 09:33 — The AI FOMO problem and the milestone approach to closing 12:19 — Scaling beyond founder-led sales without breaking culture 16:58 — Where the AI trust category is now, lightning round, and takeawaysLinks & resourcesGuestJohn O'Donnell — AliceWebsiteLinkedInAbout Frank GrowthFrank Growth is a podcast about how companies actually grow—real operators, real constraints, real decisions. Hosted by Jason Shafton.Promotional links Work with Winston Francois Subscribe / Follow Jason
• The Neobank of Insurance Playbook with Jacob Batist 19.05.2026 26min

  Episode #220: Jacob Batist — Launching the first new health insurance company in Canada in 70 yearsHow a European challenger broke into a market controlled by three incumbents — without a CEO on the ground, without brand awareness, and without growth-at-all-costs spend.For founders and growth leaders entering markets dominated by entrenched incumbents, where trust is the real constraint and speed alone won't win.Jacob Batist is Head of Growth at Alan in Canada — the first new health insurance company to launch in the country since 1957. Backed by a European parent valued at over 5 billion euros, Alan competes against three companies that hold roughly 80% of policies. Jacob breaks down why their initial blitz strategy failed, the warm-first pivot they made instead, why they target 20–100 employee companies, and how they say no to revenue they're not ready for. Concrete detail: Alan can process claims in as little as 15 minutes and onboard employees same-day.What you'll hear Why Alan positions itself as "the neo bank of insurance" and what that means operationally (sign-ups in minutes, claims in 15 minutes, one platform vs. multiple vendors) The warm-first pivot: what they tried first, why it failed, and the four credibility levers (events, organic media, partnerships, in-person moments) they replaced it with Why 20–100 employee companies are the sweet spot — and how Jacob says no to larger deals that would damage trust How to balance European credibility with the local Canadian story without leaning too hard on eitherChapters 00:00 — Cold open and host intro: Canada's silent oligopoly 04:28 — The "neo bank of insurance" positioning, in practice 09:42 — Why 20–100 employee companies are the sweet spot 11:56 — The warm-first pivot: why blitzing failed and what replaced it 18:59 — Saying no to revenue you're not ready for 21:27 — Lightning round and closing principleLinks & resourcesGuestJacob Batist — Head of Growth, Alan CanadaAlanJacob on LinkedInAbout Frank GrowthFrank Growth is a podcast about how companies actually grow—real operators, real constraints, real decisions. Hosted by Jason Shafton.Promotional links Work with Winston Francois Subscribe / Follow Jason
• Meet Your On-Demand Co-Founder with Wade Lowe 12.05.2026 23min

  Episode #219: Wade Lowe — Why GTM in the AI era is a Rubik's CubeThe business takes on the personality of the founder. If there are problems, look at thyself.For founders running $5M–$50M companies trying to crack go-to-market when the playbook keeps changing.Wade Lowe is a 3x co-founder with two exits, focused on bootstrapping, AI, and mindset. He's led revenue at two Inc 500 companies (ranked 72nd and 23rd) and now embeds with founders as a co-founder on demand. Jason and Wade get into how to diagnose a stalled growth motion, why the operating model is the first thing to fix, and how to play where the smartest people aren't — equipment rental, construction, fuel. Wade is direct about the trade-offs he made to be present for his kids and the hard truth most founders resist hearing.What you'll hear Why acquisition has to come before retention and expansion when budgets are tight How Wade diagnoses the operating model first in every $5M–$50M company he embeds with The Google AdWords inbound engine behind two Inc 500 companies — and why being first to a keyword segment was the unlock How to evaluate talent quickly using soft-skill signals: response time, commitments kept, and whether someone proposes solutions or just critiquesChapters 00:00 — Cold open: the business goes as the founder goes 03:01 — GTM in the AI era: test, test, test 06:22 — Playing where the smartest people aren't 12:13 — What Wade diagnoses first in a $5M–$50M company 17:17 — The hard truth founders resist hearing 20:29 — One operating principle for cracking GTMLinks & resourcesGuestWade Lowe — 3x Co-Founder | 2x Exit | Bootstrapping | AI | MindsetLinkedInAbout Frank GrowthFrank Growth is a podcast about how companies actually grow—real operators, real constraints, real decisions. Hosted by Jason Shafton.Promotional links Work with Winston Francois Subscribe / Follow Jason
• The Sephora of Chocolate Strategy with Pashmina De Shon 05.05.2026 20min

  Episode #218: Pashmina De Shon — Why Friction Is The Moat In Craft ChocolateHow a bootstrapped founder built a $3M+ craft chocolate marketplace by owning the operational pain everyone else outsources.For e-commerce operators, bootstrapped founders, and brands weighing the jump from DTC to physical retail.Pashmina De Shon is the founder of Bar and Cocoa, a curated marketplace for craft chocolate featuring 1,200 SKUs from 60 makers across 30 countries. After a decade running the business purely online, she recently opened a physical store in Greensboro, North Carolina. In this conversation, she breaks down why she runs her own warehouse instead of using a 3PL, how owning fulfillment keeps her waste rate at 2% versus industry norms of 10-12%, why the subscription model forced early clarity on curation, and what actually changes in the P&L when you move from DTC to brick and mortar.What you'll hear Why "even Amazon doesn't ship chocolate" became both the warning and the opportunity How owning fulfillment, FDA compliance, and temperature-sensitive shipping creates a moat competitors can't copy The plateau that hit at scale — and the boring, decisive fixes that got Bar and Cocoa past it How to think about retail economics as a marketing and retention channel, not just a sales channelChapters 00:00 — Cold open and Frank Growth intro 02:45 — The thesis: why the easy e-commerce business is the shortest-lived 07:12 — Owning fulfillment and a 2% waste rate vs. the 10-12% norm 11:53 — Moving from DTC to physical retail: what changes, what stays 14:10 — Educating the craft chocolate market while selling 17:04 — Lightning round and three takeawaysLinks & resourcesGuestPashmina De Shon — Founder, Bar and CocoaWebsiteInstagramLinkedInAbout Frank GrowthFrank Growth is a podcast about how companies actually grow—real operators, real constraints, real decisions. Hosted by Jason Shafton.Promotional links Work with Winston Francois Subscribe / Follow Jason
• The Swiss Army Knife Operator with Jeff Bishop-Hill 28.04.2026 21min

  Episode #217: Jeff Bishop Hill — How Swiss Army knife operators scale marketplacesWhat breaks first when a marketplace expands into new markets.This episode is for founders and operators balancing growth, ops, compliance, and enterprise sales at the same time.Jeff Bishop Hill breaks down what it takes to scale marketplaces when one operator is covering multiple functions at once. Drawing on his work across Soothe, Mercato, and Roo, he explains how to sequence market launches, what metrics actually matter, how to win enterprise accounts from the bottom up, and when to build compliance versus prioritize growth. He also shares where operators get expansion wrong, why supply is usually the first thing to break, and how Roo limited launches to about five markets per quarter to avoid doubling investment on failed rollouts.What you’ll hear Why supply-demand balance and customer satisfaction matter more than a stack of dashboards How Jeff sequenced new market launches using household income heat maps, logistics, and provider density Why picking markets for “sex appeal” and expanding too fast leads to expensive mistakes How to win larger enterprise accounts by starting with local users, proving value, and building up to procurementChapters00:00 — Why glamorous market selection fails01:49 — Scaling marketplaces across multiple markets and countries04:01 — The only metrics that really matter (supply, demand, CSAT)05:14 — Fixing expansion strategy and sequencing markets09:02 — Winning enterprise accounts from the bottom up15:05 — Growth vs compliance and scaling tradeoffsLinks & resourcesGuestJeff Bishop Hill — Marketplace operator at RooLinkedInAbout Frank GrowthFrank Growth is a podcast about how companies actually grow—real operators, real constraints, real decisions.Hosted by Jason Shafton.Promotional links Work with Winston Francois: https://wf.team/podcast Subscribe / Follow Jason: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonshafton/
• Why Your Lead Gen Keeps Failing with Matt Putra 21.04.2026 22min

  Episode #216: Matt Putra — Cracking paid lead gen for a services businessHow to lower lead costs by teaching instead of pitching.For service founders stuck with expensive, inconsistent lead flow.Matt Putra of EightX explains how he finally cracked lead generation for his fractional CFO business after spending $150,000 over 18 months on cold email, outbound, hiring, and agency support that did not work. The breakthrough came when he stopped trying to force a funnel and started running simple paid ads built around genuinely useful tools for e-commerce operators. He shares how a CAC spreadsheet offer dropped his cost per lead from $11,000 to $20, what his five-minute ads actually look like, and how he thinks about payback periods, inventory risk, and marketing spend across the brands he advises. The conversation also covers the operating cadence he uses to align demand, supply, and finance and why inventory strategy is often the biggest growth leak in e-commerce.What you’ll hear Why lead gen for services often fails when the offer is not clear enough How Matt structures five-minute paid ads around spreadsheets, tools, and AI workflows Why cold email, outbound, and agency-led efforts underperformed for his business How to use CAC, LTV, payback periods, and inventory analysis to make better growth decisionsChapters 00:00 — The ad that dropped CPL from $11,000 to $20 02:41 — The failed experiments: cold email, outbound, hiring, and agencies 05:56 — What the ads look like and why they convert 08:50 — The biggest financial mistake e-commerce founders make 12:23 — Diagnosing growth problems and missed ROI 14:15 — When to spend more on marketing and when to pull backLinks & resourcesGuestMatt Putra — EightXWebsiteLinkedIn
• Make Merch People Actually Wear with Jay Sapovits 14.04.2026 21min

  Episode #215: Jay Sapovits — Turning branded merch into a strategic growth toolHow to stop wasting money on swag that gets ignored.For founders and operators buying merch without a plan for impact.Jay Sapovits of Ink’d Stores explains how branded merchandise becomes useful when it starts with audience, objective, and distribution instead of a last-minute product order. He shares lessons from a failed fitness brand, a pivot into on-demand apparel, and the operating choices that helped build a $5M+ branded merchandise business. The conversation covers trade show strategy, on-demand merch economics, and why a $3 difference in shirt quality can determine whether something gets worn or turned into a rag. Jay also breaks down why distribution is the step most teams forget, even when the product itself is right.What you’ll hear How to define strategic merch based on purpose, audience, and event How on-demand merch stores reduce inventory risk and preserve cash flow Why most swag fails: low-quality product choices, no planning, and weak distribution How to use merch to drive trade show engagement and other measurable outcomesChaptersTimestamps 00:00 — Why cheap swag gets wasted 02:27 — What strategic merch actually means 06:15 — The pivot from failed fitness brand to Inked Stores 09:02 — Why quality, fit, and content determine whether merch gets used 10:41 — How on-demand merch changes the unit economics 18:11 — Why budget and distribution matter as much as the productLinks & resourcesGuestJay Sapovits — Ink’d StoresEmail JayLinkedInAbout Frank GrowthFrank Growth is a podcast about how companies actually grow—real operators, real constraints, real decisions.Hosted by Jason Shafton.Promotional links Work with Winston Francois Subscribe / Follow Jason
• Why Billionaires Pay Him a Retainer with Leigh Rowan 07.04.2026 25min

  Episode #214: Leigh Rowan — Building a premium service business without adsHow to grow a premium service business through trust, referrals, and client retention.For founders and operators building high-touch services and trying to scale without paid acquisition.Leigh Rowan, founder and CEO of Savanti Travel, joins Jason Shafton to break down how he built a luxury travel management company serving ultra high net worth individuals, family offices, VC firms, and Hollywood entertainers without ever advertising. He explains how Savanti evolved from helping entrepreneurs unlock value from points and miles into a full-service travel business built around 24-7 support, personalization, and relationships. The conversation covers how his team uses CRM workflows, SOPs, and regular standups to deliver consistent service across five continents, how they ask for referrals after delivering concrete wins, and why they have fired clients worth as much as 25% of revenue to protect the team and the business. Leigh also shares that Savanti has saved clients more than $10 million by using points and miles more strategically.What you’ll hear Why Savanti chose word of mouth over paid advertising and how that shaped client selection How the team uses monday.com, SOPs, standups, and shared context to deliver high-touch service at scale Why most people leave points and miles value unused and how Savanti turns those assets into real savings and better experiences How Leigh thinks about referrals, client feedback, hiring for judgment, and protecting culture even when revenue is at stakeChaptersTimestamps from transcript 00:00 — What luxury travel management actually means 03:22 — From points and miles to full-service travel support 07:26 — The system behind saving clients money with loyalty assets 11:42 — Why Savanti never advertised and how word of mouth compounds 17:37 — Handling travel crises, hiring for judgment, and firing bad-fit clients 21:05 — Client feedback, luxury as personalization, and how to grow by word of mouthLinks & resourcesGuestLeigh Rowan — Founder & CEO, Savanti TravelWebsiteAbout Frank GrowthFrank Growth is a podcast about how companies actually grow—real operators, real constraints, real decisions.Hosted by Jason Shafton.Promotional links Work with Winston Francois Subscribe / Follow Jason
• Buy a SaaS, Skip the Startup with Doug Breaker 31.03.2026 22min

  Episode #213: Doug Breaker — Buying a SaaS instead of building from zeroHow to acquire a profitable SaaS with minimal upfront capital.For operators considering ownership but hesitant to start from scratch.Doug Breaker, CEO of Shoeboxed and former CEO of MD Hearing Aid, explains why he chose to buy a 20-year-old SaaS company instead of building one. After running an eight-figure DTC business, he acquired Shoeboxed using an SBA loan with only 5% down. He breaks down how he sourced deals, structured financing, evaluated distribution over tech, and identified upside in an under-marketed business with a million-person email list. The conversation covers the actual mechanics of SBA loans, due diligence priorities, and what it takes to stabilize and grow an acquired SaaS in the first 90 days.What you’ll hear How SBA loans work for SaaS acquisitions and how he structured a 5% down deal Why distribution, customer base, and cash flow mattered more than the product itself Common mistakes operators make when evaluating build vs. buy decisions How to approach your first acquisition and test interest before committing full-timeChapters 00:00 — Why buying a SaaS beats building from scratch 02:01 — From CEO-for-hire to buying Shoeboxed 03:51 — How he sourced and evaluated acquisition opportunities 04:41 — How SBA loans and deal structure actually work 06:47 — First 90 days after acquiring a SaaS 10:25 — Growth lessons and how to approach your first acquisitionLinks & resourcesGuestDoug Breaker — CEO, ShoeboxedWebsiteLinkedInAbout Frank GrowthFrank Growth is a podcast about how companies actually grow—real operators, real constraints, real decisions.Hosted by Jason Shafton.Promotional links Work with Winston Francois: https://wf.team/podcast Subscribe / Follow Jason: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonshafton/
• Getting Your Mind Right for Growth with Dan Kessler 24.03.2026 26min

  Episode #212: Dan Kessler — Building organic growth beyond paid acquisitionHow to build consumer app growth without defaulting to paid media.For founders and operators scaling consumer subscription apps and looking for durable growth levers.Dan Kessler joins Jason Shafton to break down how he thinks about consumer growth across partnerships, product loops, and app portfolio strategy. Drawing on work discussed from Headspace, Citizen, and The Mind Company’s apps Elevate, Balance, and Spark, he explains when partnerships actually create value, why early teams should not treat them as a silver bullet, and how Spark was designed around sharing instead of a hard paywall. The conversation gets specific on what makes a partnership useful, how “screenshotability” drives product-led growth, and why bundling multiple apps can create more value than forcing everything into one product.What you’ll hear Dan’s framework for evaluating partnerships: audience access, brand equity, and speed Why Spark tracks screenshots and score sharing every day instead of relying on paid acquisition Why partnerships are hard to fund and measure for early-stage companies How to decide between one product, a portfolio of apps, and a bundle subscriptionChaptersTimestamps from transcript. 00:00 — Why durable consumer growth starts with product loops 01:48 — Dan Kessler’s partnership framework: distribution, brand, and speed 07:24 — When partnerships belong in the growth playbook 11:09 — Screenshotability and how Citizen turned users into marketers 13:01 — How Spark used sharing and existing users to grow 17:47 — Why The Mind Company built a portfolio of appsLinks & resourcesGuestDan Kessler — The Mind CompanyLinkedInMentionedElevateBalanceSparkCitizenAbout Frank GrowthFrank Growth is a podcast about how companies actually grow—real operators, real constraints, real decisions.Hosted by Jason Shafton.Promotional links Work with Winston Francois Subscribe / Follow Jason
• Kill the CMO Role with Elia Wallen 17.03.2026 18min

  Episode #211: Elia Wallen — Building a $2B travel platform by serving SMBsHow a founder built a multi-billion dollar company in an overlooked market.For operators deciding whether to chase hype markets or serve ignored customers.Elia Wallen is the founder and CEO of Engine, a business travel platform that grew out of his earlier company Travelers Haven. What started as a corporate housing service expanded after customers repeatedly asked his team to book hotels for traveling workforces. Looking closer revealed a gap between consumer OTAs and enterprise travel management companies that left SMB travel largely unmanaged. In this episode, Elia explains how Engine built a $2B+ company by focusing on SMB customers, running high-touch outbound sales, and staying disciplined on capital while competitors raised and spent aggressively.What you’ll hear Why SMB travel was a large but ignored market between OTAs and enterprise TMCs How Engine built growth through outbound “smile and dial” sales to smaller businesses What broke when Engine expanded from hotels into flights and cars Why Elia turned down additional capital and avoided hiring a traditional CMOChapters 00:00 — Finding an overlooked gap in business travel 02:30 — From Travelers Haven to Hotel Engine 03:41 — Why SMB travel stayed unmanaged 04:16 — Building an outbound sales motion for SMBs 06:25 — Expanding from hotels to flights and cars 08:18 — Why Engine took less capital than it was offeredLinks & resourcesGuestElia Wallen — Founder & CEO, EngineEngine websiteMentionedEngine new customer offer — $250 off when you mention “Frank Growth” to your account executiveAbout Frank GrowthFrank Growth is a podcast about how companies actually grow—real operators, real constraints, real decisions.Hosted by Jason Shafton.Promotional links Work with Winston Francois: https://wf.team/podcast Subscribe / Follow Jason: Jason Shafton on LinkedIn
• The Art & Science of Product Marketing with Seif Salama 10.03.2026 23min

  Episode #210: Seif Salama — Why most product marketing fails to drive revenueProduct marketing only matters if it changes pipeline, adoption, or retention.This episode is for founders, PMMs, and operators trying to make product marketing actually impact growth.Seif Salama joins Jason Shafton to break down what product marketing really does when it works. Seif has led product marketing across companies like Google, Fanatics, Carta, and AngelList, operating at both massive scale and early-stage startup speed. The conversation focuses on the real job of product marketing: translating product truth into market truth and helping customers understand and decide—not just creating decks or launch messaging. Seif explains how positioning should be rooted in customer language, why most sales enablement content fails, and how product marketing should influence (but not own) pricing, packaging, and product decisions.What you’ll hear Why great product marketing translates “product truth” into “market truth” How positioning fails when it isn’t rooted in real customer language Why one-pagers don’t close deals—and what sales teams actually need instead How to measure product marketing when attribution is messyChaptersTimestamped chapters 00:00 — Why sales enablement one-pagers don’t close deals 01:50 — What product marketing actually does 03:15 — What separates revenue-driving PMM from slide factories 04:08 — How positioning works (and how to test if it’s differentiated) 06:42 — How great product launches are structured 11:35 — What sales enablement actually means in B2B 15:48 — Measuring product marketing impact 19:16 — What PMMs should do in their first 90 daysLinks & resourcesGuestSeif Salama — Product Marketing LeaderLinkedInAbout Frank GrowthFrank Growth is a podcast about how companies actually grow—real operators, real constraints, real decisions.Hosted by Jason Shafton.Promotional links Work with Winston Francois Subscribe / Follow Jason
• Data Systems Designed for Scale with Pat Ryan 03.03.2026 19min

  HTMLEpisode #209: Pat Ryan — Building loyalty systems that protect marginsHow to design data systems that actually drive business outcomes.For operators building analytics, loyalty, or AI initiatives under real constraints.Pat Ryan, with experience at Discover, Organizing for Action, and United Airlines, joins Jason to break down what “data systems designed for growth” actually means in practice. They discuss infrastructure decisions that last decades, why loyalty programs are fundamentally data engines, and how United leaned on its loyalty program during the pandemic when flying stalled. Pat explains the difference between rewards and true loyalty, why most AI initiatives fail the path-to-value test, and what his first 90 days look like inside a growth-stage company.What you’ll hear Why every data investment needs a clear path to value How loyalty programs move customers up the value chain Where data systems break: infrastructure decisions that outlive you A practical 90-day plan: process first, then goals, then people, then strategyChaptersTimestamps from transcript. 00:00 — Why data only matters if it drives value 02:13 — Designing systems for commercial outcomes 03:50 — Infrastructure risk and long-term tech decisions 05:52 — Loyalty vs. rewards: data vs. discounting 10:08 — Why data trust is cultural, not technical 14:22 — AI hype vs. real path to valueLinks & resourcesGuestPat Ryan — United AirlinesLinkedInMentionedDatabricksAbout Frank GrowthFrank Growth is a podcast about how companies actually grow—real operators, real constraints, real decisions.Hosted by Jason Shafton.Promotional links Work with Winston Francois Subscribe / Follow Jason
• How to Build a World-Class Sales Motion with Lindsay Crittendon 24.02.2026 22min

  Episode #208: Lindsay Crittendon — Build a repeatable revenue system without spamOutbound email is an impression now—not a response channel.For seed to Series C revenue leaders building a real funnel and motion.Lindsay Crittendon (CRO, Taylor Bird) breaks down how to build revenue strategy that persists—grounded in how customers actually use your product, not heroics. She explains why the first diagnostic is retention and product usage, why most “can’t close” problems are positioning problems, and how to define a real ICP that’s clear enough to make your CEO uncomfortable. You’ll also hear her decision rule for go-to-market motion (match price and buyer behavior), why founders own sales until $1–$2M in revenue, and how to design simple comp plans that don’t bankrupt you—starting with budgeting 20% for commissions.What you’ll hear How to diagnose revenue: product usage/retention first, then positioning, then conversation quality How to define a real ICP (including a focused 500–600 company target list) and why focus beats “TAM” Why cold outbound email is mostly broken—and how to treat it as impressions instead of expecting replies How to pick PLG vs sales-led vs hybrid based on willingness to pay, and when to hire your first AEChaptersChapter topics (no timecodes). 00:00 — Why outbound is broken and email is just an impression 02:18 — Revenue strategy: persistent money over time (not heroics) 02:48 — What teams overlook: post-sale truth, customer usage, and what customers care about 04:16 — Diagnosing a revenue org: retention, positioning, and conversation quality 05:52 — ICP discipline: make it small, specific, and repeatable 07:11 — Choosing the right motion: match price and buyer behavior (PLG vs sales-led) 09:21 — Outbound today: stop expecting replies; use it for cheap impressions 10:25 — Minimum viable sales process: founder-led until ~$1–$2M 11:55 — Hiring and comp: budget 20% for commissions and keep plans simple 14:31 — Sales + marketing operating rhythm: partnership, respect, and shared accountability 16:23 — Speed round: product usage, discovery questions, stalled deals, and picking up the phone 17:15 — Building momentum: “what’s the first thing we can do together?” (mutual NDA example) 18:07 — Turnarounds: proving lost PMF with data, then fixing product and positioning 19:39 — Where to find Lindsay and what to reach out aboutLinks & resourcesGuestLindsay Crittendon — CRO, Taylor BirdAbout Frank GrowthFrank Growth is a podcast about how companies actually grow—real operators, real constraints, real decisions. Hosted by Jason Shafton.Promotional links Work with Winston Francois Subscribe / Follow Jason
• Designing Serendipity with Kushagra Shrivastava 17.02.2026 20min

  Episode #207: Kushagra Shrivastava - Engineering serendipity in community and eventsHow to design events where the right people actually meet and follow through.For founders and operators building communities, networks, or community-led growth.Kushagra Shrivastava is a builder and community investor behind Zoogler, a 40,000+ ex-Google alumni network. He explains how he defines “serendipity” as structured randomness within constraints, how he measures it through behavioral signals (like connection velocity), and what he considers non-negotiable when hosting events. We also cover why Zoogler outgrew a stack of tools like Google Sheets, Airtable, and Eventbrite-style platforms, what changed during the 2023 Google layoffs, and how his product Key uses intent to drive warm introductions for outcomes like hiring, fundraising, and business development.What you’ll hear A practical definition of serendipity, “structured randomness within constraints,” plus how to measure it The 3 non-negotiables for events: pre-event intent collection, designed “collision moments,” and forced closure with a next step What breaks communities: optimizing for quantity (content and connections) instead of intent and outcomes A founder checklist for starting a community as an individual vs. as a brand and how to scale once you know what worksChaptersIf transcript includes timestamps, use mm:ss or hh:mm:ss. 00:00 - Defining serendipity and how to measure it 06:20 - Zoogler overview: building a 40,000+ ex-Google network 07:18 - Minimum viable magic for events: intent, collisions, forced closure 09:32 - Key: turning intent into warm intros and outcomes 14:32 - Founder checklist: building community as a person vs. a brand 17:35 - Lightning close: the one takeawayLinks & resourcesGuestKushagra Shrivastava - Builder and community investor (Zoogler; Key)About Frank GrowthFrank Growth is a podcast about how companies actually grow, real operators, real constraints, real decisions.Hosted by Jason Shafton.Promotional links Work with Winston Francois: https://wf.team/podcast Subscribe / Follow Jason: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonshafton/