Blacklisted
Chris Hill
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Blacklisted is a podcast that interviews screenwriters whose scripts have appeared on the annual Black List, the industry-voted ranking of Hollywood's best unproduced screenplays. In each episode, host Chris Hill talks with a writer about the first script that landed them on the list, the journey to get there, and how the recognition shaped their career. Extended versions of the conversations are available through a premium subscription feed.
Epizode
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Michael Sherman 28.09.2026 22minTired of the screenwriting software out there, four-time Black List screenwriter Michael Sherman did what any writer with a coding itch would do: he built his own. He's certainly qualified. Sherman is one half of the duo Steve Desmond and Michael Sherman, co-writers of Knock at the Cabin, directed by M. Night Shyamalan (The Sixth Sense, Unbreakable, Signs), which was released by Universal Studios and debuted #1 at the Box Office.Useful links:Revision Screenwriter - Michael's softwareDreaming Ants - Steve and Michael's websiteM Night Shyamalan's YouTube ChannelState of the Story - DGA Theater October 4th - Tickets!Screenwriting360 - Online MembershipUSE COUPON CODE 'HILL' FOR 25% OFF -
Alex Convery 31.08.2026 55minVisit the new Stan Store @ stan.store/blacklistedSubscribe to our extended interviews on Spotify here.Before he was writing Air for Ben Affleck and Matt Damon, Alex Convery was chasing his own guy on the sidelines of college football. In this episode, Convery breaks down Bag Man, his 2018 Black List script about a college football fixer navigating star quarterbacks, blue-chip recruits, and the NCAA agent closing in on him — a world Convery mined for a script unlike anything else on the market that year.We talk about how he found the "bag man" as a character nobody had put at the center of a movie before, how the script's momentum landed him UTA representation off a spec, and what it's like following up a Black List debut with an even bigger swing (his Stan Lee biopic Excelsior! made the list a year later). Convery gets into structure, research, and the instinct for finding a true story's most cinematic entry point — the same instinct that would eventually lead him to Sonny Vaccaro and Air.Guest: Alex Convery on Instagram and XHost: Chris Hill on Instagram, X and BlueSkyVisit storyandplot.com/blacklisted for a 10% discount on Tom Vaughan's fantastic screenwriting courses.Useful links:Alex Convery Interview (Air) - Act Two PodcastAlex Convery Interview (Air) - The Hollywood Hang'Air' To Get Theatrical Release - Deadline'Air' Package Picked Up By Amazon-MGM - THRBag Man - ScriptShadow ReviewExcelsior! - ScriptShadow ReviewAlex In His Own Words - L.A. TimesAlex On What Made Air Rise - Final Draft -
Kelly Marcel 24.08.2026 58minVisit the new Stan Store @ stan.store/blacklistedSubscribe to our extended interviews on Spotify here.Before Fifty Shades of Grey, before Venom, Kelly Marcel wrote a spec about a two-week standoff between Walt Disney and P.L. Travers, and it landed on the 2011 Black List. This week on Blacklisted, Kelly joins me to talk about turning one of Disney's most closely guarded pieces of company history into Saving Mr. Banks.We also get into her leap from Terra Nova to features, and why she still believes in writing the script nobody asked for.And yes, saying 'no' to Stephen Spielberg...Guest: Kelly Marcel on Instagram Host: Chris Hill on Instagram, X and BlueSkyVisit storyandplot.com/blacklisted for a 10% discount on Tom Vaughan's fantastic screenwriting courses.Useful links:Disney Acquiring 'Saving Mr. Banks' - DeadlineKelly Marcel Interview - Go Into The StorySaving Mr. Banks (Script Review) - ScriptShadowEmma Thompson Interview - VarietyMovie Structure Analysis - Helping Writers Become Authors
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Leo Sardarian & Joe Russo 17.08.2026 56minVisit the new Stan Store @ stan.store/blacklistedSubscribe to our extended interviews on Spotify here.This week on Blacklisted, we're doing something new: bringing a writer and the executive who developed the idea with him into the same room, together.Leo Sardarian and Joe Russo join me to talk about Nicholas — the 2013 Black List script that reimagines the man behind the St. Nicholas myth as the hero of a sprawling, Odyssey-style journey through the ancient world. Forget the sleigh and the workshop: this is Nicholas of Myra, a real 4th-century bishop, recast as a battle-tested wanderer fighting his way north.The idea started with Joe. Leo and Joe walk through how it first took shape, how they built it together from concept to spec, the years of development that turned it into a Black List title, and the long road from page to greenlight — Nicholas is maybe soon to be headed to the screen as a seasonal mini-series. We get into what that collaboration actually looked like: an executive and a writer shaping a passion project from the ground up, and what it takes to protect an idea like that inside the studio system without losing what made it special in the first placeGuest: Leo Sardarian on X Joe Russo on Instagram, X and TikTokHost: Chris Hill on Instagram and BlueSkyVisit storyandplot.com/blacklisted for a 10% discount on Tom Vaughan's fantastic screenwriting courses.Useful links:Leo Sardarian makes The Hit List 2017The Expansion Project - Black List 2017Atlas Review - DeadlineJoe Russo sells spec to Universal, Raimi and Peele - THR
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Kat Wood 10.08.2026 54minVisit the new Stan Store @ stan.store/blacklistedSubscribe to our extended interviews on Spotify here.This week on Blacklisted, we're joined by screenwriter Kat Wood, whose spec script Ruby made the 2020 Black List and sold to Amazon Studios and 87North in a competitive situation. Kat's path here is its own story - she started as a BBC broadcast journalist in the UK before breaking into Hollywood with sci-fi specs Envoy and Genus, both of which sold to Amy Pascal's Pascal Pictures. We dig into how Ruby took a familiar genre - the assassin thriller - and found a fresh way in, the process of getting a female-led action spec noticed in a crowded market, and her meteoric start directing Maggie Gyllenhaal in a short film on Venice Beach! If you're working on a genre spec and wondering how to make a familiar premise feel new, this one's for you.Guest: Kat Wood on Instagram and X Host: Chris Hill on Instagram and BlueSkyVisit storyandplot.com/blacklisted for a 10% discount on Tom Vaughan's fantastic screenwriting courses.Useful links:Fantastic Four - TrailerJameson Short Film - Home (8 mins)Ruby Spec Sale - DeadlineDavid Boxerbaum Talks About Ruby Sale - Into The StoryRuby Review - ScriptshadowEnvoy Spec Sale - DeadlineGenus Spec Sale - DeadlinePete Spec Sale - DeadlineKat Wood Signs With Range Media Partners - Variety
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Todd Bartels & Lou Howe 03.08.2026 51minVisit the new Stan Store @ stan.store/blacklistedSubscribe to our extended interviews on Spotify here.This week we're joined by writing partners Lou Howe and Todd Bartels, whose Dolly Parton origin story Dumb Blonde landed on the 2022 Black List - and whose next collaboration just got a lot bigger. Their Anthony Bourdain feature Tony, directed by Matt Johnson and starring Dominic Sessa, hits theaters from A24 this week, and we get into what it actually looks like to go from a beloved-but-unproduced script to a movie in theaters.We trace their partnership all the way back to high school, where the two met and first started acting before they ever thought about writing together professionally. From there we dig into the mechanics of co-writing - how they split scenes, fight for lines and banish widows - plus the very different challenges of cracking a music-icon origin story versus a pre-fame character study of a guy everyone thinks they already know.If you've ever wondered what a writing partnership actually looks like day-to-day, this one's for you.Guest: Todd Bartels on Instagram and X Lou Howe on Instagram and XHost: Chris Hill on Instagram and BlueSkyVisit storyandplot.com/blacklisted for a 10% discount on Tom Vaughan's fantastic screenwriting courses.Useful links:Tony - A24 TrailerTony - Official WebsiteTony - THR ReviewTony - Cast Conversation (YouTube)
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Liz Hannah 27.07.2026 48minVisit the new Stan Store @ stan.store/blacklistedSubscribe to our extended interviews on Spotify here.What does it look like when a spec script becomes a Spielberg film? Ask Liz Hannah.In 2016, Hannah — a first-time feature writer who'd spent four years in development before switching to the page — wrote a script about The Washington Post's decision to publish the Pentagon Papers. She wrote it because the story of Katharine Graham, the first female publisher of a major American newspaper, was one she couldn't shake. Her best-case scenario was getting an agent. Instead, the script placed second on the 2016 Black List, landed at Amy Pascal's desk, and sold the day after Pascal read it. Weeks later, Steven Spielberg called. Meryl Streep and Tom Hanks followed.We get into what drew her to Graham's story in the first place, how she found a personal way in to such a monumental piece of American history, and how she defied ‘one in a million’ odds to get her first movie made by Steven Spielberg.Guest: Liz Hannah on InstagramHost: Chris Hill on Instagram and BlueSkyVisit storyandplot.com/blacklisted for a 10% discount on Tom Vaughan's fantastic screenwriting courses.Useful links:The Making of The Post - YouTubeLiz's Writing Office Set-Up - VarietyEpisode Link - Post producer, Trevor WhiteEpisode Link - Post producer, Allan MandelbaumLiz Hannah Interview - The Washington PostOverall Deal with Sony TV - Deadline'The God of the Woods' - Mini-Series Press Release
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Aaron Karo 20.07.2026 42minVisit the new Stan Store @ stan.store/blacklistedSubscribe to our extended interviews on Spotify here.Aaron Karo wrote a Black List script about a toy that turned into a bomb scare.This week's guest is comedian, author, and screenwriter Aaron Karo, whose spec Tickle Me Elmo landed on the 2024 Black List. On paper, it's the story of how a $28 vibrating plush toy nearly tanked a toy company's supply chain, and turned suburban parents into brawlers. Off paper, it's personal — Karo's father was a Tyco executive who carried the first Tickle Me Elmo prototype through airport security, where its internal mechanism read as an explosive on the X-ray and he had to disarm it — by tickling it — in front of armed guards.Aaron and I get into how you build a movie around a toy instead of a person, the rise of the corporate biopic and what it took to get a spec this specific onto "the list."Guest: Aaron Karo on Instagram, X and TikTokHost: Chris Hill on Instagram and BlueSkyVisit storyandplot.com/blacklisted for a 10% discount on Tom Vaughan's fantastic screenwriting courses.Useful links:Man of the Year Podcast Black List 2024 - VarietyElf Unwrapped: Behind The Scenes of a Modern Christmas Classic - HarperCollinsAaron Karo: Ruminations Aaron Karo: Books!The Buddy System - Audible
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Julia Yorks 13.07.2026 51minVisit the new Stan Store @ stan.store/blacklistedSubscribe to our extended interviews on Spotify here.What happens when the line between life and art disappears completely?That's exactly what happened to today's guest, Julia Yorks, writer of the 2024 Black List script The 7 Guys You Date Before Marriage, about a newly single woman diving back into the dating pool after the collapse of a ten-year relationship.Here's the twist: that exact heartbreak happened to her between the first and second drafts. She's been remarkably open about it, chronicling the whole thing for her 75K+ followers across social media.But this isn't just a story about heartbreak; Julia just sold the project to Sony.Find out how she turned tears into a sale in today's interview.Guest: Julia Yorks on Instagram, X and TikTokHost: Chris Hill on Instagram and BlueSkyVisit storyandplot.com/blacklisted for a 10% discount on Tom Vaughan's fantastic screenwriting courses.Useful links:ScriptWell: The Community for ScreenwritersGo Into The Story: InterviewEat, Cry, Write - by Julia Yorks (Substack)Shyamalan's 'The Happening' Deserves Another Chance - Den of Geek Jack Reacher and Sandy Hook - Guardian
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Richard Martin 06.07.2026 45minVisit the new Stan Store @ stan.store/blacklistedSubscribe to our extended interviews on Spotify here.How do you land a spot on the annual Black List without an agent or manager? Just ask this week's guest, Richard Martin.Richard cracked the 2025 Black List with Geezers — a slasher set in a Florida retirement complex. Think Golden Girls meets Scream. Or, put another way: how would Blanche deal with Ghostface? Fun!After earning his master's at USC, Richard spent a decade as a development exec at Bad Hat Harry Productions, shepherding projects from studio tentpoles like X-Men: First Class and X-Men: Days of Future Past to indie horror gems like The Taking of Deborah Logan. He's since moved into directing and producing — helming Hulu's horror-comedy series Spooked — and picked up a ScreenCraft Grand Prize along the way.Guest: Richard Martin on Instagram and XHost: Chris Hill on Instagram and BlueSkyVisit storyandplot.com/blacklisted for a 10% discount on Tom Vaughan's fantastic screenwriting courses.Useful links:Jamie Lee Curtis presents GEEZERS - Black ListSave The CatMichael Arndt - Story Structure Videos
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Allison Lee 29.06.2026 45minVisit the new Stan Store @ stan.store/blacklistedSubscribe to our extended interviews on Spotify here.In our season three premiere, we speak to screenwriter Allison Lee, whose biopic Oh Yoko! landed on the 2025 Black List, the annual survey of Hollywood's best unproduced screenplays. The script traces Yoko Ono's path from her birth in war-torn Tokyo to her emergence as a groundbreaking modern artist in New York, before her life is upended by a whirlwind romance with John Lennon that would brand her as the "witch" who broke up the Beatles in the eyes of the public. Lee, who has also adapted Maurene Goo's novel Throwback and developed projects for Netflix Animation, Amazon, and AMC, talks candidly about the personal stakes of the project — including writing an outline for the script without telling her own representatives, drawn to a story she "just couldn't let go" of despite the complicated rights landscape surrounding the Beatles' legacy.Guest: Allison Lee on Instagram and XHost: Chris Hill on Instagram and BlueSkyVisit storyandplot.com/blacklisted for a 10% discount on Tom Vaughan's fantastic screenwriting courses.Useful links:Yoko Ono: Music of the Mind - Special Exhibition @ The BroadWhy We Write: Allison LeeBlack List 2025 - The Hollywood ReporterAllison Lee: Film IndependentAllison Lee: Sundance AdvisorAllison Lee - Creative Screenwriting Interview
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T.J. Fixman 13.04.2026 43minWhat does it take to write one of the biggest movies in Netflix history — from scratch?This week, we sit down with screenwriter T.J. Fixman, the man behind Carry-On — the Christmas action thriller that broke Netflix records, racked up over 172 million views, and sparked a genuine cultural debate: is this the new Die Hard?Before he was writing Taron Egerton and Jason Bateman into one of the most-watched original films on the planet, Fixman was crafting narratives for video games — most notably the beloved Ratchet & Clank franchise. So how does a game writer crack Hollywood's most coveted genre: the contained, high-concept, race-against-the-clock thriller?We also talk about the Die Hard question, building a villain you never quite see, writing Christmas into the DNA of an action film without making it a gimmick — and what's coming next with his new project The Seventh Man.If you've ever stared at a blank page wondering how a single high-concept idea becomes a global phenomenon, this one's for you.Useful Links:Carry-On on NetflixMost Popular Movies on Netflix - Carry-On at #3Seventh Man sells to United Artists - Variety -
David Boxerbaum 06.04.2026 45minIn this bonus episode, host Chris Hill sits down with David Boxerbaum, partner at Verve Talent & Literary Agency and one of the most respected literary agents working in the spec script market today. Named to The Hollywood Reporter's "Next Generation 35 Under 35" at just 26 years old, Boxerbaum has built his reputation on landing six-and seven-figure spec sales for his clients — and he's not done yet.Useful Links:'Don't Go In The Water' sells to Universal - DeadlineChris Pine to star in Netflix survival thriller 'Yeti' Python Thriller Spec 'Crush' sells to 20th - DeadlineSkydance buys short story 'Drift' for $2M+'Cola Wars' Pitch sells to Sony - DeadlineApatow and Spielberg attached to 'Cola Wars' - DeadlineVeteran lit agent joins Verve - Variety -
Jon Hersh 30.03.2026 39minIn 2022, the script that rose to the very top of the Black List was Pure, a psychological horror-thriller about a woman whose obsession with food purity unravels into madness at her sister's destination wedding. The writer was Catherine Schetina, best known for her work on the acclaimed Hulu drama The Bear. The manager behind her? Jon Hersh.Jon founded Night Drive Management in 2017 with one clear mission: find bold voices with incendiary material. Since then, he's built a roster of writers and writer-directors whose work has landed at Universal, Netflix, Amazon, Disney, Lionsgate, Paramount Players, AMC, and beyond — and whose scripts have become a regular fixture on the Black List year after year.In this episode, Jon pulls back the curtain on what it actually takes to compete at the highest level of the spec market. Jon also reflects on his path from story analyst at CAA to development executive at Broad Green Pictures before ultimately founding his own company, and what each stop taught him about the business of discovering and developing great writers.Useful links:"Pure" tops the Black List in 2022.Night Drive Management Website.Yoko Ono Biopic, "Oh Yoko!", lands on Black List 2025.Short Story "Carrier" Sells to New Regency. -
Allan Mandelbaum 23.03.2026 47minBefore Allan was helping run production at one of Hollywood's most storied companies (Ron Howard's Imagine Entertainment), he was a kid in the mailroom at Endeavor — sorting packages, learning the rhythm of the industry from the ground up. This week, he traces the full arc: from assistant at Fox 2000, to VP at Hugh Jackman's SEED Productions, to nearly a decade building a slate at Star Thrower Entertainment that quietly became one of the most enviable track records in the business.We dig into the story of how Allan discovered Nora Garrett's spec After the Hunt — and what it took to recognize the material before anyone else did. Because that call paid off: the script sold to Amazon-MGM with Julia Roberts attached and Luca Guadagnino (Challengers) set to direct. Allan breaks down the anatomy of that discovery — what he saw on the page, how the package came together, and what a sale like that actually feels like from the inside.We also get into the credits that shaped how he works: producing King Richard (Oscar winner, Warner Bros.), shepherding The Post alongside Steven Spielberg, landing Fair Play at Sundance and watching Netflix acquire it out of the festival, and the quiet cult success of No One Will Save You for Hulu and 20th Century. Plus: Ingrid Goes West, which took home Best First Feature at the Spirit Awards, and 8-Bit Christmas, for which he earned a PGA nomination.Useful Links:Imagine EntertainmentStar Thrower EntertainmentNora Garrett Interview - IndieWireAfter The Hunt - Deadline ArticleFair Play Sells to Netflix - VarietyFair Play Sale - THRThe Post Director/Cast Announcement - DeadlineAmy Pascal Buys Spec Script, The Post - Deadline -
Zack Zucker 16.03.2026 57minManager Zack Zucker of Bellevue Productions — whose client Matisse Haddad landed the #1 Black List script of 2025 — breaks down the mistake that kills most screenwriting careers before they start: falling in love with the wrong kind of idea. Inspired by Franklin Leonard's viral essay "The Moral Case for Selling Out," we dig into why professional writers rarely make this error (their reps won't let them) and what the rest of us can do to vet our concepts before we've written ourselves into a corner.Useful links:Bellevue Productions WebsiteNews of Zack's client's new film, "I Play Rocky"Zack's client tops Black List 2025Zack's indie darling, The Novice, which he produced.Interview with Lee Jessup on YouTube -
Franklin Leonard 09.12.2025 1h 9minTo celebrate the #BlackList2025 release, we're dropping a loaded bonus episode with Black List founder Franklin Leonard.Twenty-one years after its inception, the Black List has become Hollywood's most influential survey of unproduced screenplays - launching careers, reshaping industry gatekeeping, and proving that meritocracy can be an engine for diversity. As the 2025 list drops, we sit down with founder Franklin Leonard for an unflinching conversation about what's changed, what hasn't, and what comes next.Guest: Franklin Leonard on Instagram, BlueSky and XHost: Chris Hill on Instagram, X, TikTok and BlueSkyUseful Links:Franklin on SubstackThe Black List on SubstackThe Annual Black List ArchivesEpisode Sponsor:Hit the link here for 10% off Story and Plot's pro digital screenwriting courses, MASTERING STRUCTURE and IDEA TO OUTLINE. -
Trevor White 20.10.2025 43minTrevor White of Star Thrower Productions talks about how he and his brother Tim have built their producing careers by working hands-on with screenwriters to develop their scripts, then using the Black List as a spotlight tool to get the industry buzzing and help package projects with the right talent - a strategy that's led to some serious hits including King Richard (2021), where Zach Baylin's script about Venus and Serena Williams' father landed Will Smith his Oscar, The Post (2017), teaming Liz Hannah's Pentagon Papers script with Steven Spielberg, Meryl Streep, and Tom Hanks, and their latest Black List project, the rom-dramedy Eternity (2025), which just premiered at TIFF. White breaks down their writer-first approach, explaining how Star Thrower digs into the development trenches with screenwriters before strategically using the Black List to create buzz and attract directors and actors, turning promising scripts into actual movies that get made, while offering practical advice to aspiring writers about nailing character work, finding fresh takes on stories, and understanding how the right relationships and platforms can get your script from your laptop to the big screen.Useful links:Star Thrower Entertainment WebsiteTrailer for rom-dramedy EternityTHR Interview with Tim and TrevorDeadline Article about 'With the 8th Pick' Film Courage Video Interview with Trevor -
John Yorke 06.10.2025 47minGet your copy of John's exceptional book here.What if every story you've ever loved - from ancient myths to Marvel blockbusters, from Shakespeare to The Sopranos - follows the exact same blueprint? Today we dive deep into John Yorke's revolutionary book "Into the Woods: How Stories Work and Why We Tell Them," the UK's bestselling screenwriting text that's required reading for story enthusiasts and professionals alike.Find this and other interviews on our new YouTube Channel.Yorke, the mastermind behind British TV hits like Shameless, Life on Mars, and EastEnders, argues that storytelling isn't just an art - it's hardwired into human perception itself. We explore his groundbreaking five-act structure, the neurological basis of narrative, and why understanding story structure can transform your writing from good to great.Whether you're a seasoned screenwriter or just starting your storytelling journey, this episode will change how you see every story around you.Guest Bio:John Yorke is one of the most influential figures in British television drama. Former MD of Company Pictures where he Exec Produced Wolf Hall, he’s worked as both Head of Channel Four Drama and Controller of BBC Drama Production, where he was responsible for commissioning and producing some of the most beloved shows in British TV history, including Hustle, Spooks, Casualty, Holby City, Bodies, and Sex Traffic.His career began story-lining EastEnders during its first BAFTA-winning year, leading to a 14-year association that produced some of the biggest audiences in British television history. As a commissioning editor and executive producer, he championed defining works like Life On Mars, The Street, Shameless, and Waterloo Road.In 2005, he created the BBC Writers Academy, a year-long intensive training program that has produced a generation of successful television writers. John Yorke is now Managing Director of both Angel Station and John Yorke Story, where he works as a drama producer, consultant and lecturer on all forms of storytelling. He consults on narrative advertising across all broadcasting platforms including podcasting, presents his own weekly radio show Opening Lines about classic books on BBC Radio 4, and is also Visiting Professor of English Language and Literature at the University of Newcastle-upon-Tyne. He lives in London but works as a story consultant worldwide.Useful links:BBC Writersroom Interview - John Yorke -
Tom Vaughan 22.09.2025 1h 1minHit the link here for 10% off Story and Plot's pro digital screenwriting courses, MASTERING STRUCTURE and IDEA TO OUTLINE.There you can sign up for Tom's weekly newsletter - it's a free screenwriting lesson in your inbox every Tuesday morning.It's also where you can find his FREE email course, SCREENWRITING FOR BEGINNERS, for those at the beginning of their journey.Discover why 90% of screenplay sales hinge on two crucial elements - and it's not what most writers think. Professional screenwriter Tom Vaughan exposes the industry's best-kept structural secrets, including the game-changing 8-sequence method that outperforms traditional 3-act structure. Learn why the story-vs-plot distinction separates amateur scripts from professional ones, and discover how proper structure actually unleashes creativity instead of constraining it.Tom Vaughan has written screenplays professionally for 28 years and taught the subject for 22.He has written for, among others, Phoenix Pictures, TNT, MTV Films, Castle Rock Entertainment, ABC, NBC, CBS, Warner Brothers, Sony Pictures, Disney, and others. He has also developed screenplays for Matthew McConaughey, Nicolas Cage, Barry Sonnenfeld, Chow-Yun Fat, Ruben Fleischer, David Gordon Green, and many more.WINCHESTER, the film he co-wrote starring Helen Mirren and Sarah Snook, about the infamous Winchester Mystery House, opened nationwide in 2018 and his eighth film, THE HAUNTING OF THE QUEEN MARY was released in 2023.One of his big life goals was to teach screenwriting at my beloved alma mater, The University of Houston.Which he now does.Check out the video of this interview on our new YouTube Channel.Useful links:Michael Arndt's incredible screenwriting videosTrailer to Tom's recent film, WINCHESTERInterview with playwright Edward Albee - Tom's teacher
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