The 4th Wave in Therapy

Epizody

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  Bryan Hubbard 15.10.2026 41min

  From Depression to Discovery: The Story Behind Timelight In this episode of The Fourth Wave in Therapy, Peta interviewed Bryan Hubbard about his therapeutic method Timelight, which he developed after overcoming chronic depression. Bryan shared his personal journey, including early childhood trauma and a decade-long struggle with depression, and explained how this led him to explore the energetic and spiritual dimensions of trauma. He described Timelight as a process that addresses the energetic release at the point of trauma, rather than just its manifestations like depression or anxiety. Bryan discussed the concept of time as an energy created by trauma, and how this shifts the understanding of identity and healing. He also outlined the "three selves" model of the psyche, which includes the present self, past selves (psychological, narrative, and knowledge), and the potential center. The conversation touched on the ACEs study, the impact of trauma on health, and the potential for deeper healing by working at the energetic level. Bryan encouraged therapists to consider Timelight as a complementary approach to deepen their trauma work, and mentioned his books and website for further learning.
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  Lynne McTaggart 23.07.2026 34min

  This interview with Lynne McTaggart explored her pioneering research on quantum energy fields and intention-based healing. McTaggart explained her concept of "The Field" - a quantum energy field where subatomic particles exchange information and energy, demonstrating how this field can be harnessed for healing through group intention experiments. She detailed her work conducting 42 experiments, including studies showing significant results in plant growth and reductions in violence in war-torn areas, with 38 experiments showing positive effects. Lynne discussed her "Power of Eight" methodology, where small groups of 6-12 people focus intention on specific outcomes, sharing examples of remarkable healings including cases of blindness and genetic liver disease. The conversation also covered her upcoming course "Think Yourself Young" which focuses on cellular rejuvenation through mental processes and community engagement, challenging cultural attitudes toward aging, particularly for women. https://www.evidencebasedeft.com/lynne-mctaggart 
• 
  Eben Alexander 22.07.2026 1h 1min

  This podcast episode features Dr. Eben Alexander discussing his near-death experience (NDE) in 2008, when he was in a week-long coma from a deadly E. coli bacterial meningitis infection. During his NDE, Alexander described ascending through multiple spiritual realms, including a Gateway Valley with thousands of souls dancing and a core realm filled with divine love, where he encountered a beautiful guardian angel and experienced life reviews. He explained how his scientific background as a neurosurgeon transformed after the experience, leading him to reject materialism and embrace a view that consciousness is primary in the universe rather than being created by the brain. Dr Alexander discussed his recovery process, including his return to work within three months and his subsequent career shift from neurosurgery to sharing his experiences about consciousness and spirituality with the world. He also covered his work with binaural beat meditation using Sacred Acoustics, past life memories and reincarnation research at the University of Virginia, and how near-death experiences demonstrate the reality of an eternal soul and universal love.
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  Yves Wauthier-Freymann 22.07.2026 41min

  This episode of "Fourth Wave in Therapy" featured an interview with Yves Wauthier-Freymann, creator of the Self-Emotional Balancing method, discussing his journey from personal trauma to developing an integrated approach to treating complex trauma and attachment disorders. Yves shares his background in psychotherapy and energy psychology, including training with various modalities like EFT, REMAP, and Internal Family Systems, leading him to develop a comprehensive approach that combines somatic stimulation, primitive reflex integration, and compassion-based techniques. He explained how his method addresses both the physical body memories and the mental control mechanisms that can block healing in traditional talk therapy, emphasising the importance of heart connection and self-compassion in repairing attachment disorders. The conversation highlights Yves’ belief that effective trauma treatment requires practitioners to understand multiple modalities and adapt them systematically to individual needs, with a focus on body-mind integration and the role of love and compassion in healing.
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  Alice W. Lee 22.07.2026 39min

  This podcast episode featured Dr. Alice Lee, a holistic and integrative psychiatrist practicing in Stamford, Connecticut, discussing her journey into energy psychology and medicine. Dr. Lee explained how she first encountered Thought Field Therapy (TFT) in 2003 through Mark Botnick, which led her to develop criteria-based energy testing techniques that go beyond traditional muscle testing. She described how energy testing can provide real-time feedback about patient responses to interventions, including the impact of psychiatric medication withdrawal on digestion and nutrient absorption. Dr. Lee shared her experience helping patients safely withdraw from psychiatric medications using integrated approaches combining energy medicine, functional medicine, and energy testing. The conversation explored how energy testing could potentially enhance other energy psychology modalities like EFT by providing objective assessment tools beyond subjective distress scales. Dr. Lee expressed hope for the future of holistic psychiatry, including destigmatizing mental illness and moving beyond symptom-based labeling toward addressing underlying causes of mental health issues.
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  Suzanne Zacharia 22.07.2026 34min

  Peta interviewed Suzanne Zacharia, a complementary therapist and EFT (Emotional Freedom Techniques) trainer, about her journey into EFT and her professional work. Suzanne shared how she discovered EFT after a serious illness (COPD) at university led her to explore alternative therapies, starting with hypnotherapy before finding EFT more effective. She discussed her personal transformation, including running her first half marathon in 2011, and how EFT helped her address both physical symptoms and trauma, including medical trauma from undiagnosed conditions. Suzanne also mentioned her work as founder of Energy Healers Organization and director of Energy Practitioners Association, where she is helping to develop formal EFT qualifications both in the UK and South Africa. Suzanne explained how EFT became a recognized occupational qualification in South Africa, requiring 60 hours of personal practice before practitioners can work with clients, and discussed her current efforts to establish similar qualifications in the UK through collaboration with health departments.
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  Lori Chortkoff Hops 22.07.2026 32min

  In this episode, Peta interviewed Dr. Lori Hops, a licensed psychologist based in California, about her work on division consciousness versus unity consciousness. Dr. Hops explained division consciousness as a toxic form of separation that leads to tearing down rather than building, using the analogy of oxen quarreling and leaving themselves vulnerable to attack. She described unity consciousness as a collaborative approach that brings the best out in others while acknowledging and integrating both positive and negative aspects. The conversation explored how division consciousness manifests through fear of lack, fatigue, and feelings of isolation, and Dr. Hopps emphasized the importance of energy-based and mind-body approaches alongside traditional psychology to address these deeper issues. She shared her personal journey discovering energy psychology techniques like Reiki and EFT, which led her to develop practical tools for helping clients shift from division to unity consciousness.
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  Aimie Apigian 22.07.2026 47min

  This episode of "The Fourth Wave in Therapy" featured a conversation between Peta and Dr. Amy Apigian, a double board-certified physician in preventative and addiction medicine and leading voice in trauma biology. Dr. Apigian shared how her personal experience with grief and chronic fatigue syndrome in 2014 led her to discover the connection between trauma and physical health, prompting her to develop a body-based approach to healing trauma. She explained her three-energy levels theory (calm and alive, high energy, and low energy) and how the nervous system shifts between these states in response to perceived danger, using the metaphor of a turtle retreating into its shell during overwhelming situations. Dr. Apigian discussed the importance of allowing time for physiological recovery and challenged the cultural emphasis on resilience, defining true strength as the ability to feel and process emotions rather than pushing through difficulties. She outlined her approach of "precision nervous system healing" which integrates mind, body, and biology assessment to create personalized healing plans, and expressed frustration with the medical field's slow adoption of trauma-informed care despite early research on adverse childhood experiences.
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  Denise Duffield-Thomas 22.07.2026 49min

  In this episode, Peta and Denise dig into why so many women in the helping professions struggle to charge for their work. Denise traces these money blocks back to deep-seated beliefs about the value of helping others, rooted in the historical roles women have played as caregivers and "wise women." Peta adds that this isn't just a mindset issue—it's also a training gap, noting that even academic programs preparing people for helping professions rarely teach business skills or financial management. The conversation moves into practical territory, with Denise sharing personal experiences and strategies for building discernment and self-awareness around money, plus tips for setting boundaries around pricing. Throughout, both hosts emphasize the need for more open, judgment-free conversations about finances—especially for women navigating guilt around getting paid for meaningful work.
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  Anna Yusim 22.07.2026 31min

  This podcast episode featured Dr. Anna Yusim, a board-certified psychiatrist and lecturer at Yale Medical School, discussing the integration of spirituality into mental health treatment. Dr. Anna shared her personal journey from traditional medical training to embracing spiritual principles, including experiences with predictive dreams and psychic phenomena that led her to explore alternative healing approaches. She explained how spirituality can enhance mental health through concepts like spiritual health, which involves resilience and emotional maturity in facing life challenges. The discussion covered practical ways therapists can incorporate spiritual elements into treatment, including taking spiritual histories from patients and exploring various spiritual practices. Dr. Anna emphasized that younger generations are driving a paradigm shift in medicine toward more holistic approaches, and she expressed hope for reducing suffering and expanding joy through better integration of spiritual practices in mental health care.
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  Mitchell Abrams 22.07.2026 46min

  This podcast episode featured Dr. Mitchell Abrams (Mitch), a Canadian radiologist and founder of NextGen Health, discussing his journey from traditional medicine to embracing compassion and heart coherence practices. Dr. Abrams explained how his own heart condition and experience in India led him to discover ancient wisdom about energy and consciousness that was missing from Western medical approaches. He detailed the five elements of compassion (awareness, embodiment, common humanity, action, and relief) and described heart coherence as a measurable state where the heart and brain synchronize, creating optimal brain function and allowing prefrontal cortex control over the limbic system. The conversation covered practical applications of these concepts, including how heart coherence can be cultivated through specific breathing techniques and the "laser protocol" (lock on, synchronize, and radiate), with measurable tools like the HeartMath Global Coherence app available for tracking progress. Dr. Abrams shared his vision for creating global heart coherence networks and expressed optimism about a potential future renaissance driven by music, art, science, and technology that could transform human understanding and connection.
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  Gabriëlle Rutten 22.07.2026 1h 2min

  This podcast episode featured Dr. Gabrielle Rutten, the appointed successor to Gary Craig, discussing the evolution of EFT (Emotional Freedom Techniques) and the introduction of Optimal EFT. Gabrielle shared her journey from medical doctor to EFT practitioner, explaining how Gary Craig originally developed both EFT tapping and EFT meditation (now called Optimal EFT) with a spiritual foundation that was later simplified for wider acceptance. She clarified that EFT techniques properly refers to the combination of both EFT tapping and EFT meditation forms, emphasizing that both approaches are necessary for comprehensive EFT practice. Gabrielle discussed how Optimal EFT involves connecting with an "unseen therapist" for spiritual guidance while maintaining the technical aspects of stress pattern resolution, and she expressed her vision for unity within the EFT community to advance the practice professionally and personally.
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  Emma-Leigh Senyard 22.07.2026 39min

  This podcast episode featured Dr Peta interviewing Dr. Emma Leigh Senyard, a clinical psychologist who shared her personal journey with chronic illness and how she incorporated mind-body approaches to heal. Emma described developing medical symptoms after having her first daughter in 2021, which led to a diagnosis of mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS) and heart condition, followed by a challenging recovery process involving various treatments and alternative therapies. Through her journey, Emma discovered the benefits of meditation, vagus nerve exercises, and fourth-wave therapy approaches like EFT Tapping, Inner Child work, EMDR and Internal Family Systems, which helped regulate her nervous system and improve her physical symptoms. She now integrates these mind-body approaches in her private practice, working with teenagers and adults and focusing on nervous system regulation, while also advocating for better integration between medical and psychological approaches to address the mind-body connection.
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  Siri Erickson 22.07.2026 48min

  This podcast episode featured Dr Peta interviewing Dr. Siri Erickson, a certified menopause doula and clinical EFT practitioner who developed the Meno EFT method. They discussed the biological changes during perimenopause, including hormone fluctuations that can lead to anxiety, sleep issues, and other symptoms, with Siri explaining how declining progesterone and erratic estrogen levels impact the brain and nervous system. Siri shared her personal journey through perimenopause and how she discovered EFT as an effective tool for managing anxiety and other symptoms. They explored how EFT creates a safe space for addressing emotional challenges during menopause, with Siri noting that the method combines somatic experiences with compassionate conversation to help clients develop self-compassion. The conversation covered common misconceptions about menopause, including the belief that estrogen deficiency is problematic when hormone sensitivity to fluctuations is often the real issue. They discussed the importance of considering both psychological and biological factors when addressing menopause symptoms, with Siri emphasizing the need for integrated approaches that include medical testing for issues like iron deficiency. The episode concluded with information about Siri's upcoming Meno EFT online course, which will provide structured guidance for applying EFT techniques to menopause-related challenges.
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  Dr Carol Look 02.10.2025 31min

  Dr Carol Look In this engaging conversation, Dr. Carol Look, a founding EFT master, shares her journey from traditional psychotherapy to energy psychology, emphasising the transformative power of EFT tapping and gratitude. The discussion explores the concepts of healing, anxiety, resistance, and family patterns, while highlighting the importance of finding one's own 'yes' and the scientific benefits of gratitude practices. Carol's insights provide valuable tools for therapists and clients alike, showcasing how tapping can facilitate emotional healing and personal growth. Dr Carol Look is a psychotherapist, Founding EFT Master, international speaker, and best-selling author of 2 books: The Yes Code: Transforming Sabotage into Success. and Yes, Thank You: Tapping Into the Superpower of Gratitude. Carol combines her traditional training as a psychotherapist with clinical hypnosis and advanced applications of EFT Tapping for unprecedented results with her clients. Known for her laser-like focus and state-of-the-art approach, Carol has used EFT Tapping for over 25 years to help clients release their limiting beliefs and emotional conflicts so they can enjoy lives of exceptional success and fulfilment. Carol is a world-renowned EFT workshop presenter and has taught workshops in England, The Netherlands, Belgium, France, Ireland, Canada, Australia, and all over the United States. She is a regularly featured energy medicine expert on leading global tele-summits, and is featured as a top expert in the field’s leading documentaries. For more on Carol’s programs, visit www.CarolLook.com. Websites: www.carollook.com www.theyescode.com https://www.carollook.com/blog/ https://www.carollook.com/abundance-store/  Show notes and transcripts are on the podcast page here: https://www.evidencebasedeft.com/dr-carol-look 
• 
  Gavin Abeyratne 02.10.2025 56min

  Gavin Abeyratne In this episode of the Fourth Wave in Therapy podcast, Dr. Peta Stapleton interviews Gavin Abeyratne, exploring the intersection of leadership, personal development, and innovative therapeutic practices. They discuss the emergence of the fourth wave in therapy, the impact of limiting beliefs on leadership, and the importance of understanding the six forces of change that affect personal and professional growth. Gavin shares insights on the role of psychedelic-assisted therapy, the concept of integral alchemy, and practical tools for self-discovery, emphasizing the relational nature of self and the importance of community in personal development. In this engaging conversation, Gavin Abeyratne and Dr. Peta Stapleton explore themes of personal growth, visualization, and emotional balance through guided meditation techniques. They discuss the importance of social influences, the process of visualizing future successes, and the dynamics of energy flow within the body. The dialogue emphasizes the significance of acknowledging both positive and negative feelings, embracing possibilities, and trusting the timing of life transitions. The session culminates in reflections on the experience and insights gained, along with resources for further exploration. Gavin Abeyratne is an autodidactic polymath that likes big words and even bigger visions. When he's not writing about himself in the 3rd person, he's studying consciousness or spending time with his wife, two lovely daughters and cat in Melbourne, Australia. My vision is to call in the best and brightest, and synergise our collective capability to catalyse an elevation in consciousness... no big deal. Website: https://www.integralalchemy.com.au/  Show notes and transcripts are on the podcast page here: https://www.evidencebasedeft.com/gavin-abeyratne 
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  Dr Gina Cleo 02.10.2025 31min

  Dr Gina Cleo  In this episode, Dr. Gina Cleo discusses the science of habit change and its profound impact on wellbeing. She shares her personal journey into habit science, emphasizing the importance of understanding how habits are formed and how they can be changed. The conversation explores the neuroscience behind habits, the role of dopamine, and practical strategies for establishing healthy habits, particularly around sleep and wellbeing. Dr. Cleo also debunks the myth of the 21-day habit formation rule and provides insights for therapists on helping clients develop new habits. Dr. Gina Cleo is a globally recognised expert in habit change and wellbeing, and is passionate about translating scientific evidence into simple, actionable strategies to help improve health, wellness and mindset-related habits-long-term. Gina has a PhD in habit change, is an Assistant Professor at Bond University, and an Accredited Dietitian. Her research has been published in highly reputable medical journals globally, and she has been featured in over 250 media outlets including Australian’s major television networks and leading print and online publications. She is also a regular keynote speaker and expert panellist at national and international conferences. In 2024, Gina released her best-selling book, The Habit Revolution, further establishing her as a leading voice in the field of habit change. When she’s not geeking out on new habit research, Gina is running courses through her Habit Change Institute and working the land on her acreage property. Website: www.drginacleo.com Instagram: www.instagram.com/drginacleo  Show notes and transcripts are on the podcast page here: https://www.evidencebasedeft.com/dr-gina-cleo 
• 
  Marcus Pearce 02.10.2025 37min

  Marcus Pearce  In this engaging conversation, Dr Peta Stapleton and Marcus Pearce explore the themes of longevity, life design, and the cultural practices of blue zones that contribute to exceptional aging. They discuss the importance of purpose, connection, and active learning in fostering a fulfilling life. The conversation emphasizes the need to shift beliefs about aging and the significance of shared meals and mindfulness in enhancing quality of life. Marcus shares insights from his research and interviews with centenarians, highlighting the simple yet profound practices that can lead to a longer, healthier life. No matter your family history or your genes, Marcus Pearce believes that it’s not all downhill from here and that your best years are in front of you, not behind you. Marcus Pearce is a longevity and life design strategist and host of 100 Not Out, Australia’s longest running podcast on ageing well and longevity. He is the author of the best-selling book Your Exceptional Life and each year takes small groups to the European Blue Zones of Sardinia and the Greek Island Ikaria - known as the island where people forget to die. Marcus has spent the past decade interviewing and researching more than 200 of the world’s centenarians, graceful agers, health professionals and icons of humanity. Website: www.marcuspearce.com.au Email: [email protected] Show notes and transcripts are on the podcast page here: https://www.evidencebasedeft.com/marcus-pearce 
• 
  Dr Hayley Kelly 02.10.2025 43min

  Dr Hayley Kelly In this episode, Peta Stapleton interviews Dr. Hayley Kelly, a clinical psychologist, discussing the challenges within the mental health system, the burnout faced by therapists, and the disconnect between therapy practices and business skills. They explore the evolving expectations of clients and the need for innovation in therapy to better serve the community. We delve into the evolving landscape of therapy practices, exploring the critical need for innovation and adaptation in the field. As societal challenges and technological advancements reshape the way we approach mental health, therapists are called to embrace new methods and tools to enhance their practice. Join us as I chat with Dr Hayley Kelly and discover how innovation is not just an option but a necessity in the future world of mental health care. Dr. Hayley Kelly is a clinical psychologist, speaker, and founder of Therapists Rising. With over a decade in the therapy room and a PhD in psychology, Hayley now helps therapists expand their impact beyond one-to-one work through her Mental Health 3.0 framework — a future-ready model for thriving in a digital-first, ethically complex mental health landscape. Her work bridges evidence-based clinical excellence with innovation, equity, and accessibility, equipping therapists to adapt, lead, and create change in a system that’s struggling to keep pace with the world around it. Website: https://therapistsrising.com/  Show notes and resources are available here: https://www.evidencebasedeft.com/dr-hayley-kelly 
• 
  Kerry Neilson 02.10.2025 39min

  Kerry Neilson In this episode, Dr. Peta Stapleton reconnects with Kerry Neilson, a quantum empowerment and transformation coach. They explore the cultural misconceptions surrounding change, the significance of personal awakening, and the interplay between science and spirituality in the transformation process. Kerry shares her profound journey of recovery from alcoholism, emphasising the importance of surrender, self-compassion, and identity change. The conversation culminates in an introduction to Kerry's course, 'Wired for Wonder,' which aims to guide individuals through their own transformation journeys. Kerry Neilson (M.Ed Studies in Guidance & Counselling, Dip. Gestalt Therapy) is a Gestalt therapist, writer, and former high school guidance counsellor and educator. With over 25 years’ experience, she specialises in helping people move through major life transitions. She is the author of the upcoming book Whole, Not Wholesome: How to Fall Apart, Wake the Hell Up and Let Your Pieces Become Power. Kerry also offers courses and webinars on spirituality, resilience, crisis, and personal transformation. Learn more at https://www.kerryneilson.com.au/  Show notes and transcripts are on the podcast page here: https://www.evidencebasedeft.com/kerry-neilson