In-House Outliers

Episoder

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  The Case for a JD in Legal Ops with Sonnedix's Heather Torres 06.08.2026 31min

  In this episode, Sonnedix's Heather Torres argues that legal training isn't required for legal ops , but it's an unlock, and she's got eight and a half years of experience to back it up.Heather explains why legal background changes how lawyers trust you, and how it's shaped her ability to communicate, build credibility, and think strategically inside her legal department. The conversation also covers the chip-on-the-shoulder dynamic between lawyers and legal ops, where legal ops experience can lead next, and closes on AI: as technical fluency becomes table stakes, Heather argues the real advantage is layering human judgment on top of the tools, and legal training is one of the clearest ways to build it.
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  The Human Side of Legal Technology Adoption with Legal Operations Professional Joe Lewis 23.07.2026 24min

  In this episode, Legal Operations Professional Joe Lewis shares why getting lawyers to adopt new technology has nothing to do with the technology itself.Drawing on experiences that stretch from teaching seniors how to use YouTube at a public library to building change management infrastructure inside a fast-moving legal department, Joe makes the case that the real work of adoption happens in casual moments, not formal training sessions.The conversation covers how to break down the "lawyer face" that goes up the moment a work conversation starts, what genuine influence actually looks like in practice, and why acknowledging the downsides of AI before selling the benefits is the only way to get lawyers to actually listen.Joe also shares his approach to long-term efficiency: working backwards from the result you want, and accepting that the slow path upfront is what makes everything faster later.
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  What E-Billing Implementation Actually Takes with Agiloft's Frances Dupree 09.07.2026 34min

  In this episode of the In-House Outliers podcast, Anna Richards speaks with Frances Dupree, Principal Customer Success Manager at Agiloft, about what e-billing implementation actually takes from someone who learned it the hard way.Frances spent over a decade moving through legal operations without knowing it had a name, working as a paralegal, procurement specialist, contract manager, and e-billing specialist before the title caught up with her work. At Inmar, she led a ground-up Brightflag implementation while simultaneously learning the company, and that experience became the foundation for everything she now teaches.The conversation covers why documenting your manual workflow is a prerequisite, not a starting point, for any system implementation, how to map a stakeholder landscape you can't fully see yet, and what happens when a GC doesn't recognize the work that just got done. Frances also shares what prompted her to launch her LinkedIn series, Legal Operations Playbook, to fill a gap she kept seeing in available resources around outside counsel spend management. She closes by reflecting on how her years as a customer will shape the kind of CSM she intends to be.
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  Progress Over Perfection: Building Legal Ops from Scratch with LUMA Energy's Federico Vicente 18.06.2026 35min

  In this episode of the In-House Outliers podcast, Anna Richards speaks with Federico Vicente, Legal Operations Specialist at LUMA Energy in Puerto Rico, about building a legal department from nothing.Federico joined LUMA three years ago to find a department running on email with no intake, no spend tracking, and no formal processes. His first move was implementing a legal service request system in Brightflag to separate legal questions from business decisions and that single starting point created the foundation for everything that followed. The conversation covers how strategic insourcing and a liaison program that upskills internal attorneys drove over $2.5 million in savings, his approach to technology evaluation on a constrained budget, and his advice for anyone starting from zero: silence the noise, find your baseline, and let the domino effect do the rest.
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  Scaling Legal Operations Across a Global Team with ABF's Dan Wate 04.06.2026 21min

  In this episode of the In-House Outliers podcast, host Anna Richards speaks with Dan Wate, Legal Operations Manager at Associated British Foods, about managing legal operations solo across a global team of 150 lawyers in 14 countries.Dan shares his journey from joining ABF before legal ops had a name, to building a function that spans a complex, multinational business. He covers two core strategies for scaling as a team of one: having a clear plan to stay proactive rather than reactive, and building an unofficial team through trusted relationships across finance, IT, HR, and procurement. The conversation also touches on why being nice is a genuine professional skill, how to approach vendor and outside counsel relationships as partnerships, and what those new to legal ops should know about building transferable skills.
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  From Buyer to Partner: Building Better Legal Tech Relationships with Novartis's Michael Francony 21.05.2026 25min

  In this episode, Michael Francony, Senior Legal Project and Operations Manager at Novartis, shares what it really takes to transition from buyer to true partner when working with legal technology vendors. Drawing on experience from both sides of the table he offers a grounded perspective on what makes implementations succeed or fail.The conversation covers how to define the "why" before jumping into execution, and Michael's four F's framework for vendor relationships: friendly, fair, firm, and fun.The discussion also touches on stakeholder management, the challenges of measuring ROI without baseline data, and how AI is reshaping the legal technology landscape — from established vendors to AI-first solutions built at a pace that would have been unthinkable just a year ago.
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  Bridging Legal Ops and Finance with Generate's Michelle Garza 07.05.2026 21min

  In this episode, Michelle Garza, Legal Operations Manager at Generate, discusses how she built a deep and productive partnership between her legal ops and finance teams. She shares her journey from executive assistant to legal ops, and how she transformed a chaotic, email-driven accrual process into a streamlined, centralized system using Brightflag.The conversation covers practical strategies for gaining finance team trust, including learning their tools and language, implementing consistent project coding, and providing real-time visibility into legal spend.The discussion also touches on vendor management, invoice processing, and how accurate, timely accruals became a credibility-builder with finance — ultimately saving an estimated 20 hours of work per department, per month.
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  The Rise of the Legal Engineer with Wordsmith.AI's Elly Meenan 23.04.2026 25min

  On this episode Elly Meenan (Legal Engineering Evangelist at Wordsmith.AI) discusses the rise of the Legal Engineer role and what it means for the future of legal work. The conversation focuses on how legal engineers use technology to automate legal work and build scalable systems, bridging the gap between legal expertise and technical execution.Elly also shares insights on breaking into the field, offering advice on developing technical skills, building a portfolio, and establishing a personal brand, alongside her experience creating a legal operations job board.
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  The Expanding Role of the Modern GC with OTC Markets Group's Daniel Zinn 09.04.2026 26min

  On this episode Daniel Zinn (General Counsel, Chief of Staff, and Corporate Secretary at OTC Markets Group) discusses the expanding role of the modern general counsel. Dan shares how his role has evolved organically from pure legal counsel to encompass strategic business partnership, operational leadership, and business development. The conversation explores how Dan's multi-faceted role allows him to be involved in strategic discussions from the ground up, rather than just solving problems after they arise.
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  The Future of Legal Ops with Legal Operations Leader Mary O'Carroll 26.03.2026 26min

  On this episode, legal operations leader and industry icon Mary O'Carroll joined Brightflag's Anna Richards to discuss the evolution of legal ops roles, the differences between in-house and law firm AI adoption, and the importance of community. Mary also shared practical advice for CLOs looking to build a legal operations function.
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  Building a Durable Legal Ops Function with Sanofi's Dimitri Lucas 12.03.2026 29min

  On this episode, Dimitri Lucas (Legal Operations & Digital Transformation Manager at Sanofi) discusses his approach to developing an effective legal ops function in high-pressure corporate legal environments.Dimitri also shared tips for navigating change management, thoughts on the benefits of building upon small wins, and insights into the customer success principles he's found to be effective in legal operations.
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  Outside Counsel Management at Scale with John Deere's Lindsay Schuyler 26.02.2026 38min

  On this episode, Lindsay Schuyler (Outside Counsel Strategy & Spend Manager at John Deere) joined the show for an in-depth discussion about how to effectively select, manage, and evaluate outside counsel at scale.Lindsay also shared her insights into how to demonstrate the value of the legal department to the broader business, and how legal ops can position themselves at the forefront of technological innovation.
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  New Beginnings with Brightflag's Anna Richards 05.02.2026 26min

  In his final interview as host of the In-House Outliers podcast, Alex Kelly sat down for a candid conversation with Brightflag's Head of Community Anna Richards, who will be leading the show going forward.During their discussion, they touched on the value of community for legal ops professionals, how legal teams are balancing "efficiency vs. effectiveness" when evaluating AI tools, and ways to strengthen relationships with outside counsel.
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  Surveying the Legal Landscape with Cockroach Labs' Adam Becker 22.01.2026 32min

  On this episode, Adam Becker (Director of Legal Operations at Cockroach Labs) joined the show to discuss the current legal technology landscape, how generative AI will impact outside counsel partnerships, and the unique challenges of building out a legal ops function.
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  2026 Predictions with Brightflag's Kevin Cohn 05.01.2026 35min

  On this special episode of In-House Outliers, Brightflag's Kevin Cohn returns to share his annual legal operations and legal technology predictions for 2026.
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  Enhancing Communication with Ericsson's Alexander de Nerée 20.11.2025 35min

  On this episode, Alexander de Nerée (External Firm Relationship Counsel at Ericsson) joined Alex Kelly to discuss:-Alexander's philosophy when it comes to managing outside counsel relationships-Ways to set expectations with law firms regarding AI use, and develop more open dialogues-Alexander's fascinating career journey and his best advice for aspiring in-house legal professionals
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  Pushing the Envelope with DoorDash's Ryan Black 30.10.2025 28min

  On this episode, Ryan Black (Chief of Staff, Legal at DoorDash) joined the podcast recently to share his expert insights into:-Common pitfalls legal ops can encounter during legal technology evaluations—and how to avoid them-The skills he cultivated on his journey from Paralegal to Legal Operations Manager to Legal Chief of Staff-His experience building out a legal operations function, and how he leverages AI in his day-to-day to work more efficiently
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  Embracing Innovation with CyberArk's Stephanie Palmieri 16.10.2025 24min

  On this episode, Stephanie Palmieri (Head of Legal Operations at CyberArk) joined Alex Kelly to discuss:-The keys to effective change management—including how to measure the success and necessity of legal technology implementations-How the size and maturity of an organization's legal function dictate what its priorities will be from an operations standpoint-The takeaways from her own incredible career journey, which began in television production and ultimately led her to the field of legal ops
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  Emerging Legal Ops: A Conversation with Rocket Companies’ Vice President 04.09.2025 33min

  On this episode, Nicole Weidenhamer reflects on her eight-year journey at Rocket Companies, where she has risen from intern to VP of Legal Operations.During her conversation with Brightflag's Kevin Cohn, they discuss:How to build and scale a legal operations functionThe value of networking with other legal ops professionals and finding a communityThe evolving legal ops landscape, and the keys to effective change management
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  Staying Agile with Etsy's Jennifer Smith 21.08.2025 25min

  On this episode, Jennifer Smith (Legal Operations Manager at Etsy) joined the show to discuss the key skillsets legal ops professionals need to be successful, and Jennifer's own fascinating journey into the world of legal operations.Jennifer also discussed some projects she's most proud of having spearheaded, and the impacts she sees AI having on the legal field.