Discourse in Magic

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  How Ivan Went From Kids Magic to Corporate Parties 05.10.2026 22Min.

  In the third episode of Magicians and Margaritas, Jonah Babins sits down with Ivan, a Long Island-based magician who successfully transitioned from performing at kids’ parties to booking high-ticket corporate events. Together, they break down the systems, mindset shifts, and team-building strategies that helped Ivan rapidly increase his revenue from roughly $100,000 to approaching $170,000 a year. Key Takeaways: Automated Lead Generation: To maintain a consistent flow of incoming inquiries, Ivan relies heavily on Google Ads and maintains an active presence on multiple gig platforms, including GigSalad, Bark, The Bash, Thumbtack, and Entertainers Worldwide. Building a Reliable Team: Hiring a Virtual Assistant (VA) can be challenging—Ivan cycled through four or five assistants before realizing he was micromanaging and needed to accept “80% good” to avoid burnout. Today, his VA efficiently manages his inbox and schedules 10 to 20 calls a day, freeing him to focus purely on performance and business strategy. Pricing and Mindset: Surrounding yourself with successful peers can provide the psychological “permission” needed to raise your rates. By joining the Mastermind and seeing other magicians confidently quoting high prices, Ivan overcame his internal blocks regarding premium pricing. Elevating the Performance: Shifting from children’s entertainment to corporate events requires a refined, professional presentation. After receiving honest feedback, Ivan injected more humor into his act and elevated his show’s overall quality, leading to glowing testimonials from corporate clients. The $12,000 Gig: Relentless follow-up and strategic package structuring can lead to massive paydays. Ivan initially lost a lead on a gig site but kept the client in a “No and Maybe” email sequence, which eventually landed him a $6,000 4th of July house party the following year. When the client returned for an even bigger event, Ivan offered tiered pricing and successfully up-sold them a $12,000 package featuring large-scale stage illusions. Resources Mentioned: Discourse in Magic YouTube Channel: You can watch the full video version of this episode, along with additional resources and visual models, on their YouTube channel. The Mastermind: There are still a few spots open in the Mastermind before the end of 2026. If you want to work together to grow your magic business, send an email with the word “Mastermind” to [email protected]. How Ivan Went From Kids Magic to Corporate Parties This video is the YouTube version of the podcast episode with Ivan, providing the visual context and full conversation about his transition to corporate magic and massive financial growth.
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  Six-Figure Magic Business Blueprint 05.10.2026 23Min.

  In this episode, magic business coach Jonah Babins outlines the foundational model for growing a magic business from a part-time hobby into a six or multi-six-figure enterprise. He breaks the growth process down into three core pillars—Leads, Sales, and Systems—and provides actionable self-evaluation questions alongside real-world examples of magicians who have successfully scaled their incomes. Key Takeaways Generating Leads: A magic business cannot survive without a consistent flow of inquiries. Leads are categorized into inbound traffic (such as Google Ads, which helped Cameron Leo cross $150,000 a year), outbound traffic (such as cold emails, which drives 60% of Cody Clark’s business), and nurturing past clients (which helped Manuel instantly book a $5,000 gig). Mastering Sales: Converting leads requires strategic pricing, packaging, and high-quality promotional materials. Babins emphasizes that clients need visual proof of your value, noting how Max Olbrich used a specific promo video template to significantly increase his booking conversions. Additionally, refining your sales call process and follow-up strategy can drastically increase revenue, as seen when Daniel Shafer added $50,000 in 90 days. Building Systems: To run a smooth operation without burning out, magicians must leverage technology, such as CRMs for automation, and build a team to handle administrative tasks. For instance, Caleb Wiles hired an assistant to manage emails and invoicing, while Jeff Newman uses CRM software to streamline his daily operations. Prioritizing Work/Life Balance: Being a solo entrepreneur should not mean working all day and night. Babins highlights the importance of deliberately stepping away from the business to recharge, using the example of Katrina, who intentionally schedules time for personal enjoyment, vacations, and self-care. Resources Mentioned YouTube Channel: You can find the video versions of these podcast episodes, complete with on-screen visual models, by visiting the Discourse in Magic YouTube channel. Each video also includes links to download related examples and worksheets. Discourse in Magic Instagram: If you are interested in scaling your magic business, you can send a direct message with the word “scale” to the Discourse in Magic Instagram account to start a conversation. The Mastermind: There are still a few spots left in the Mastermind program before the end of 2026. To apply or learn more about working together, email the word “Mastermind” to [email protected].
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  How Caleb Wiles Became a Professional Magician 05.10.2026 25Min.

  In this episode of Magicians and Margaritas, Jonah sits down with Caleb Wiles to discuss his journey from doing casual side gigs to becoming a full-time, highly successful corporate magician. They break down the mindset shifts required to elevate a magic business, the realities of raising your prices, and why you must stop performing for other magicians and start focusing on what real-world audiences actually care about.    Key Takeaways The Power of Raising Prices: Increasing your rates creates a healthy internal pressure to over-deliver; when you charge top dollar, it forces you to ensure the client feels completely taken care of and validates their decision not to hire a cheaper, lower-quality performer. Tinkering vs. Performing: You must separate the time you spend tinkering with complex magic concepts from the time you spend on stage. When performing for laypeople, the only metric that matters is whether the audience is having a great time and being genuinely entertained. The Social Engineer: If you encounter a guest at an event who actively dislikes magic, do not force your performance on them. Instead, act as the “social engineer” of the party by gracefully moving on and finding the groups of people who actually want to engage and have fun. Mastermind Growth: By joining the Mastermind program and shifting his focus away from smaller, poorly paid gigs, Caleb was able to concentrate entirely on the corporate market, which caused his business revenue to skyrocket. Avoiding “Convention Magic”: Real corporate clients do not care about highly technical, arbitrary puzzle tricks designed to fool other magicians. You need to curate a show that connects deeply with lay audiences and avoids the weird, practical disconnects of convention-style magic. Resources Mentioned YouTube Channel: You can find video versions of these podcast episodes, along with additional resources, by checking out the Discourse in Magic YouTube channel. Six-Figure Roadmap: Click the link in the video description to watch the comprehensive roadmap video detailing exactly how magicians are scaling their businesses to six figures and beyond. The Mastermind: There are still a few spots open in the Mastermind before the end of 2026. If you want to work together to grow your magic business, send an email with the word “Mastermind” to [email protected].  
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  Stop Getting Ghosted on Gigs 05.10.2026 20Min.

  This episode tackles the frustrating nightmare of “ghosting” in your magic business—when a lead inquires, has a fantastic phone call, and then completely vanishes before booking. The typical sales process involves a website form fill, a sales call, and finally the decision to book, but many magicians lose their prospects in the ambiguous gap immediately following the call. By implementing a specific structure at the end of your calls, sending a targeted proposal email, and utilizing funny, low-pressure follow-up tactics, you can actively prevent ghosting and close more gigs. Key Takeaways: BAM FAM (Book A Meeting From A Meeting): Never end a sales call by sending the client off into the ether with a vague “let me know”. Instead, explicitly schedule the follow-up conversation on the calendar before you hang up. Train for Replies: While on the phone, ask the client to reply to your upcoming proposal email just to confirm it did not go to spam, which establishes a habit of two-way communication. The Anatomy of a Proposal: A strong proposal email should include a summary of how your services serve their event, relevant links (like a promo video or bio), case studies or reviews, pricing, and a clear confirmation of the next scheduled step. Ghostbuster Emails (SPEAR): When following up, send emails that are Short, Personal, and Expecting A Reply (SPEAR). Avoid needy, nagging check-ins that make you sound like an accountant. The GIF Check-In: If a client goes quiet, send a single sentence paired with a funny GIF (e.g., asking if they were eaten by a shark, abducted by aliens, or attacked by a raccoon) to break the ice and elicit a quick laugh and response. The Breakup Email: Send a multiple-choice email asking the prospect to reply with a single letter indicating their status. Give them options like “A” for ready to book, “B” for not interested, or a funny option like “Brad learned magic and is doing the show instead”. Resources Mentioned: Free Ghostbuster Templates: Download a document containing examples of the proposal email format and the most effective Ghostbuster emails (including the GIF and Breakup templates) discussed in this episode. Six-Figure Scaling Roadmap: Check out the linked video outlining the exact playbook used to help magicians scale their businesses to $100k, $200k, and beyond.
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  Unleashing the Power of Past Clients 04.10.2026 20Min.

  This episode transitions some of our best recent YouTube content into podcast form, giving you actionable business lessons you can listen to on the go. Many magicians constantly spend money trying to acquire new leads through ads, agents, or gig sites. However, the most underutilized resource in your magic business is the people who have already hired you. This episode breaks down how to properly re-engage your past clients, turn them into your biggest fans, and secure repeat bookings without spending additional money on marketing. Key Takeaways: The 9-Word Email: A highly effective, simple email template originally from Dean Jackson that simply asks, “Are you still looking for entertainment for your [event]?” to instantly revive cold leads. Optimal Follow-Up Cadence: Reaching out to your past clients 4 to 12 times a year is the sweet spot to keep you top-of-mind without being annoying. The 70/30 Rule: You must ensure that 70% of your communications are “gives” (providing genuine value) and only 30% are “asks” (requesting new bookings or referrals). Creative “Gives”: Send your past clients engaging magic news, provide helpful vendor lists for event planners, or share interactive magic teaching videos. VIP Client Treatment: Spoil your absolute best clients with physical gift boxes or free tickets to your public shows so they remember you the next time they plan an event. Resources Mentioned: YouTube Channel: Subscribe to the Discourse in Magic YouTube channel to watch the video versions of these episodes and access the free downloadable templates and worksheets. The Mastermind: If you want to grow your magic business to $100k+ and beyond, email [email protected] with the word “Mastermind” to claim one of the final spots.
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  Magicians & Margaritas 29.06.2026 20Min.

  Welcome to the brand new series on Discourse in Magic: Magicians and Margaritas! In this inaugural episode, host Jonah Babins sits down over a margarita with Mastermind member and stellar Australian magician, Cameron Leo.  Together, they pull back the curtain on Cameron’s massive business transformation. We unpack the exact trajectory that took Cameron from zero to $20K a year, and then explosive growth from $20K to over $150,000 a year doing magic full-time. If you want deep business insights, actionable scaling models, and real strategies you can steal for your own career, this episode is packed with invaluable nuggets.  Jonah also drops a major announcement regarding the future of the podcast and the community: Discourse in Magic is officially launching video content on YouTube! You can now watch full episodes (including this one) to see the action live, alongside exclusive strategy breakdowns to help you optimize your business systems. What You’ll Learn in This Episode: The $0 to $150k Blueprint: The foundational shifts and milestone strategies Cameron used to scale an international magic business. From Solo Effort to Systems: Why building a six-figure business relies less on raw working hours and more on creative system design. The Mastermind Effect: How collaborative, high-level accountability helps magicians break past the $20k plateau. Stealable Business Nuggets: Real-world advice on booking mechanics, pricing, and positioning your value. Key Pillars of the Discussion: Magicians and Margaritas: The concept behind this new series—casual, transparent, and unfiltered business breakdowns with magicians who are actively crushing their financial goals. Stepping Up Your Marketing Asset Management: Shifting your perspective from being just a performer to running an automated, high-converting booking machine. The 100K Plan & Beyond: A look into how modern tools and structured mastermind planning can help scale a magic business to six figures without requiring you to buy more tricks. Mentions & Links: The 100K Plan YouTube Video: Watch the full, detailed breakdown of how we help scale magicians to six figures and beyond.h The Discourse in Magic Mastermind: The premier community helping magicians scale their businesses through modern tech, collaborative strategy, and high-level innovation.
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  AI For Magicians 28.05.2026 15Min.

  In this solo episode, Jonah Babins reports back from the annual Mastermind Summit. Every year, Jonah takes the mastermind group to an epic, tropical destination to map out business growth, and this year they returned to a beautiful resort in Mexico. While the room tackled classic pillars like contracts, public shows, SEO, and cold email, one massive topic dominated the entire trip: Artificial Intelligence. Jonah issues a direct warning to performers: it is 2026, and running a business without looking at AI is simply irresponsible. This isn’t about shoving technology down anyone’s throat; it’s about recognizing a unique window of opportunity to out-innovate your competition before your booking systems feel completely ancient. What You’ll Learn in This Episode The Rising Floor: Why “okay” websites and generic marketing won’t cut it anymore as new competitors launch with highly optimized, AI-driven setups. Lead Generation in Flux: How the foundational engines of magic bookings—including SEO, Google Ads, and cold email—are shifting under our feet. Automating the Stuff You Hate: Turning over tedious tasks like inbox management, contract writing, web scraping, and chasing payments to AI so you can focus on performing. The Speed of Creativity: Why business no longer moves at the speed of pure effort and hours, but rather at the speed of creative system design. The Mastermind Evolution: Why the Discourse in Magic Mastermind has officially transition into an AI-driven innovation company. Key Pillars of the Discussion Shifting From Effort to Creativity Once upon a time, the magic business favored whoever could put in the most raw hours—sending the most emails or writing the most blog posts. Today, the tools are equalized, meaning the most creative system wins. Jonah contrasts a basic user who merely transcribes a sales call with a creative producer who uses AI to instantly sync with a CRM, generate automated follow-up sequences, pull dynamic client testimonials, and build custom pitch decks instantly. Just like a deck of cards, the tool remains the same, but the output depends entirely on the creativity of the performer. Erasing the Admin Work The most easily replaced tasks are the repetitive admin jobs that most magicians procrastinate on anyway. AI excels at calendar management, draft sorting, data scraping, and contract refinement. By automating these friction points, you preserve your energy for the parts of the business that require true human relationship-building: the magic, the client interactions, and the live performances. Mentions & Links The Discourse in Magic Mastermind: The premier community helping magicians scale their businesses through modern tech and strategic innovation. Jonah’s Daily Companion: Claude—the specific AI platform Jonah and lead coach Kelvin use for 3 to 5 hours every single day to test new workflows. Don’t wait until it gets easier. Jonah’s ultimate challenge to the community is to spend at least one hour a week (ideally an hour a day) playing with these tools. The magicians who jump in now are the ones who will capture the market while everyone else waits on the sidelines.
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  Inside the Chicago Magic Round Table 12.04.2026 23Min.

  In this special episode, Jonah Babins shares a “meaty” excerpt from his recent business lecture delivered to the Chicago Magic Round Table. Recorded while Jonah was in the midst of a residency at the Chicago Magic Lounge (654 Club), this session skips the tricks and goes straight to the systems that allow a performer to scale from a hobbyist to a high-earning professional. Jonah breaks down the exact philosophy they use at the Toronto Magic Company. While the full lecture covers everything from t-shirts to thumb tips, this episode focuses on the “engine” of your business: how you handle leads, how you optimize your time, and when it’s finally time to ditch the spreadsheet for something more powerful. What You’ll Learn in This Episode The Chicago Residency: Jonah’s experience performing close-up in the legendary 654 Club and the unique energy of the Chicago magic scene. Systems vs. Software: Why you shouldn’t buy a CRM until your current system is “breaking” from too much success. The “Fast Talker” Philosophy: Why Jonah pushes the pace during business lectures and how to absorb high-level strategy without getting overwhelmed. Lead Management: The transition from manual copy-pasting to automated forms and why efficiency is the ultimate competitive advantage. AI in Magic: Why Claude has become an indispensable “coworker” for drafting copy, organizing ideas, and managing the backend of a magic brand. Key Pillars of the Lecture Identifying the “Break” Point Jonah discusses a common trap: magicians buying expensive software to solve problems they don’t have yet. He argues that you only need a system when you are getting so many leads that a simple spreadsheet is no longer manageable. Systems should be the solution to your growth, not a distraction from it. Continuous Optimization The secret to the Toronto Magic Company’s success isn’t one big secret—it’s a thousand small optimizations. Jonah explains the importance of looking at every step of your booking process and asking, “How can this be 1% better?” Leveraging Modern Tools From using AI like Claude for business heavy-lifting to utilizing automation for client inquiries, Jonah highlights how modern tech allows a solo performer to operate with the professionalism of a much larger agency. Mentions & Links The Chicago Magic Lounge: A world-class venue and home to the Chicago Magic Round Table. Claude: Jonah’s recommended AI tool for business efficiency. Lecture Inquiries: If you want Jonah and Ben to bring this lecture (including the tricks!) to your club or convention, email [email protected]. Follow Jonah: Find tips and business advice on Instagram @discourseinmagic. Ready to bring Jonah to your city? If you’re part of a magic club or convention and want to learn the full business and performance system, reach out via email. Whether it’s a digital deep dive or an in-person workshop, let’s get your magic business scaling.
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  Trading Places: Jonah Babins with The Magic Guys 19.03.2026 1Std. 8Min.

  This week, Discourse in Magic looks a little different. Instead of Jonah interviewing a guest, we’re sharing an episode where the tables were turned. Jonah recently sat down with Josh Norbido and Nick Kay—better known as The Magic Guys—on their popular Australian-based livestream and podcast. The Magic Guys actually “robbed” Jonah of the FSM Award for top Magic Podcast this year, but there are no hard feelings here. Their show is famous for its high energy, active YouTube community, and hilarious banter, making this one of the most engaging “crossover” episodes yet. In this session, Josh and Nick grill Jonah on the inner workings of his business, his performance schedule, and his philosophy on growth. What You’ll Learn in This Episode The Toronto Magic Company Story: How Jonah built a brand that doesn’t just book him, but manages a roster of talent across the city. The FSM Rivalry: A behind-the-scenes look at the friendly competition between the top magic podcasts in the industry. The “Anti-Budget” Strategy: Why Jonah believes asking a client “What is your budget?” is one of the biggest mistakes you can make on a sales call. Managing a Roster: The logistics and ethics of taking a cut from other magicians’ gigs and how to provide enough value to make it a win-win. The Power of Community: How The Magic Guys built a “fitspo” for magicians through livestreaming and Discord interactions. Key Pillars of the Discussion The Business of Management Jonah dives deep into how the Toronto Magic Company operates. He explains the transition from being a solo performer to building a brand that clients trust, allowing him to book other magicians and take a management fee while ensuring the quality of the show remains high. The Perfect Sales Approach During the “grilling” session, Jonah shares one of his most important pieces of business advice: stop leading with budget. He argues that by focusing on the value and the specific needs of the event first, you position yourself as an expert rather than a commodity. Content and Coaching Jonah discusses his recent shift toward heavy Instagram content and his Magic Business Mastermind, where he helps performers scale from five figures to six figures and beyond. Mentions & Links Follow The Magic Guys: Check out Josh Norbido and Nick Kay on YouTube and their podcast. Toronto Magic Company: Learn more about Jonah’s local management brand. FSM Awards: The annual awards recognizing excellence in magic media. The Mastermind: Message Jonah the word “SALES” on Instagram @discourseinmagic to get details on his upcoming workshop. Ready to stop asking about budgets and start closing bigger gigs? If you enjoyed this deep dive into the business side of magic, make sure to follow the newsletter for tips sent out three times a week.
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  Mastering the Perfect Sales Call 14.03.2026 11Min.

  In this episode, Jonah Babins breaks down a critical mistake magicians make when a lead finally lands in their inbox: treating the sales call like a logistics checklist. While knowing the venue and guest count is important, a truly professional sales call does something much deeper. Jonah explores how the right questions don’t just give you information—they prove your expertise and give you the exact language you need to close the gig. Whether you’re performing at high-end weddings or corporate holiday parties, the strategy remains the same: stop asking about logistics and start asking about the experience. Jonah shares two specific “power questions” that shift the dynamic from being a vendor to being a consultant. What You’ll Learn in This Episode The 10,000-Foot View: The ideal structure of a sales call, from discovery questions to the final close. The Language Mirror: Why asking the right questions gives you the “tools” to explain your magic using the client’s own goals (like “breaking the ice”). The “Pro” Signal: How specific, market-driven questions (like asking a camp director about “evening programs”) prove you have experience without you ever having to brag. The Wedding Hack: The one question about family photos that creates a “private magic moment” for the couple and solves a major wedding planning oversight. The Corporate “Plus-One” Strategy: How to use the presence of spouses to position your magic as a relationship-building tool rather than just “entertainment”. Two Examples of “Pro” Questions Jonah illustrates the power of high-level questioning through two common scenarios: The Wedding Question: Ask if the couple will be away taking photos during the cocktail hour. This identifies a problem: they are paying for magic they won’t see. By offering a private, five-minute routine for just the two of them and their content team, you provide massive value and a lifetime of memories. The Corporate Question: Ask if plus-ones are invited to the holiday party. This allows you to explain the “babysitting” problem—where employees spend the whole night making sure their partner isn’t lonely instead of mingling. You can then position your mingling magic as the solution that builds those early relationships and keeps guests from leaving the moment dessert is done. Mentions & Links Register for the Workshop: Jonah is hosting a deep-dive workshop on Thursday the 19th all about the Perfect Sales Call. Sign Up Here:https://discourseinmagic.com/salescall/ Follow Jonah on Instagram: @discourseinmagic. Ready to get more “Yes” answers and higher fees? If you want to stop winging your sales calls and start closing with confidence, join Jonah for the upcoming workshop. No cold calling, no strangers—just a system for when people inquire to work with you.
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  Where Has Jonah Been? 06.03.2026 15Min.

  In this solo episode, Jonah Babins pulls back the curtain on the eight-month hiatus of Discourse in Magic. Since August 2025, the podcast feed has been quiet, leading many listeners to reach out and check-in. Today, Jonah is back to explain his disappearance, share a major business epiphany from his recent travels, and lay out the future of the show. The truth is, Jonah hasn’t been resting; he’s been on a whirlwind journey across the globe. From Auckland to Melbourne, and Pennsylvania to Denver, Jonah has been physically traveling to visit members of his Magic Business Mastermind. He shares the “insane” rule he follows: when a magician has worked with him for 18 months, he flies out to see them on his own dime. This commitment, combined with a heavy November/December gigging season, made recording high-quality episodes nearly impossible—until now. What You’ll Learn in This Episode The Travel Log: Why Jonah spent 30 of the first 45 days of 2026 on the road and what it’s like managing a 60-person mastermind while remaining a full-time performer. The Australia Epiphany: How being in a completely different time zone forced Jonah to embrace asynchronous work and delegation. Content vs. Systems: Why Jonah is moving away from the “hamster wheel” of social media content and toward lead generation that doesn’t require daily manual output. The “Easy” Question: Inspired by Tim Ferriss, Jonah asks: “What would this look like if it were easy?” and applies it to your magic bookings. The Viral Trap: The reality of getting 3.4 million views on a Reel and why it resulted in zero inquiries and one death threat. Lead Gen: Stop Dancing, Start Scaling Jonah breaks down the major difference between Daily Output lead gen and Systematic lead gen: The Content Trap: Posting 3+ times a day is a full-time job. Unless you love shooting and editing, it might not be the best use of your time as a magician. The Evergreen Power of SEO: A single well-written blog post can rank for years, providing value long after an Instagram post has disappeared from the feed. Automation: How tools like ads and cold email software allow you to “press play” and generate leads while you focus on your craft. Mentions & Links Follow Jonah on Instagram: @discourseinmagic for daily tips and reels. The Newsletter: Join the community to get deep-dive emails several times a week. Recommended Reading: The 4-Hour Workweek (or any works) by Tim Ferriss. See Jonah Live: performing at the Chicago Magic Lounge (654 Club) this March. Ready to grow your magic business the “Easy Way”? If you want to scale your business from five to six figures without dancing on TikTok, DM Jonah the word “SCALE” on Instagram.
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  Weaponize Your Show 17.08.2025 13Min.

  In this episode of Discourse in Magic, Jonah Babins dives into a powerful concept from his mastermind sessions: Weaponizing Your Show. The idea is simple—make your show book you more shows. Beyond just delivering a strong performance, Jonah shares five practical tactics to turn every gig into a referral engine, rebooking machine, and review generator. If you want your performances to create momentum in your business, this episode is packed with actionable advice you can implement right away. Mention What You Do Onstage Audiences rarely know whether magic is your hobby or your full-time career. Jonah explains how to weave subtle references into your script that signal where and who you perform for—whether it’s weddings, corporate events, or private parties. This small tweak sparks ideas in your audience about where else they could hire you. Use Humor to Get Reviews Getting reviews can feel awkward—unless you make it part of your act. Jonah shares the exact joke he uses at every show that gets laughs while nudging audience members to leave five-star reviews. It’s a simple, repeatable way to boost your credibility without being pushy. Don’t Run Out After the Show Your performance isn’t over when you step off stage. Jonah stresses the importance of staying behind to thank volunteers, mingle, and even do a bonus trick or two. Building connections in those moments can turn casual spectators into future bookers. Master the Business Card Swap When someone asks for your card, don’t just hand it over—swap. Jonah breaks down how to use these interactions to capture leads, follow up, and move people into your sales funnel. It’s a small shift that ensures opportunities don’t slip away. Be Easy to Remember Even great magicians get forgotten if their brand isn’t sticky. Jonah explores the importance of simple names, clear visuals, and consistent branding to make sure you’re memorable long after the show is done. Because if they can’t remember your name, they can’t rebook you. Mentions Toronto Magic Company Weaponize Your Show Mastermind Session Bill Herz (corporate magic insights) David Gerard Bill Malone
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  Thoughts on FISM 25.07.2025 19Min.

  In this solo episode of Discourse in Magic, Jonah Babins shares his raw and honest reflections on FISM 2025. From mind-blowing performances to marathon-length competitions, Jonah walks through the highs and lows of the world’s biggest and most prestigious magic convention and competition. Whether you attended or are just curious about how FISM functions, this episode offers a candid inside look. Highlights from the World Stage Jonah opens with praise for the best of the best—performers whose acts left audiences stunned. Standout mentions include Michael Bloke’s clever creativity, the astonishing coding mentalism of Mind to Mind, Billy’s inventive routine, Morton Christensen’s consistent excellence, and the shockingly fresh linking ring act by Juan Klos. But it was quick-change artist Leah Kyle who stole the show with a jaw-dropping act that received standing ovations and, in Jonah’s view, deserved the Grand Prix. The Long Haul of Competition Despite the brilliance at the top, Jonah critiques the structure of FISM’s competition. With hours upon hours of performances—many of which don’t meet the bar—he argues for stricter qualification rounds to cut down the sheer volume. Watching 150+ acts over several days becomes grueling, and Jonah suggests FISM should focus on quality over quantity to make the experience more enjoyable and less exhausting. What FISM Got Right (and Wrong) From disappointing gala shows to overlooked online categories, Jonah points out organizational missteps. The new Online Magic Awards, though a great idea, felt like an afterthought—barely acknowledged during the ceremony and judged with outdated criteria. He also calls for a more thoughtful schedule, noting the chaos of overlapping events, midnight galas, and 9 a.m. lectures. And as for the judging? Let the crowd reactions count—because Leah Kyle not winning still feels like a snub. Mentions FISM (Fédération Internationale des Sociétés Magiques)
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  Jamie Allan: Building Big Magic With Authenticity 17.07.2025 58Min.

  In this episode of Discourse in Magic, Jonah sits down with Jamie Allan, a pioneering illusionist and producer known for blending large-scale magic with theatrical storytelling. From growing up in a showbiz family in the UK to launching Broadway-scale productions in New York, Jamie shares the ups and downs of his journey—offering invaluable lessons about reinvention, creative resilience, and staying authentic in a world of illusions. From Red Coats to Broadway Jamie traces his early days performing in holiday parks and on cruise ships, where he learned to love the stage and reject the grind of close-up gigs. His breakout moment came with I Magician, a tech-themed stage show that earned critical and commercial success in the UK and US. Jamie shares how learning from the financial and marketing failures of Houdini: The Musical helped him pivot to a more sustainable, scalable model for touring magic. Innovation, Failure, and the COVID Pivot When the pandemic hit, Jamie didn’t wait. He transformed canceled plans into a new immersive magic experience called Illusionarium in Toronto—an ambitious, multi-room journey through the history of magic. Jamie reflects on the logistical chaos, creative breakthroughs, and the emotional impact of creating live work at a time when theaters were dark. Later, he reimagined the project as Magic Immersive in Chicago, which found its stride as a tightly run, high-energy spectacle. Amaze, Broadway, and the Future of Illusions Jamie talks about his current off-Broadway show Amaze, a deeply personal and theatrical production blending storytelling with illusion. Unlike the days of dance tracks and unexplained boxes, Amaze uses magic to serve the story and aims to leave audiences feeling something more than just fooled. He shares why illusions might be making a comeback and why today’s magicians need to lead with honesty, passion, and presence on stage. The Endless Chain Jamie Allan recommends Tom Crosbie as the next guest for Discourse in Magic. Mentions Jamie Allan’s Amaze in NYC Illusionarium (Toronto immersive experience) Magic Immersive (Chicago)
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  The Art and Hustle of Modern Magic with Xavier Mortimer 08.07.2025 1Std. 11Min.

  Jonah sits down with viral magician Xavier Mortimer to trace an unlikely journey—from learning back‑and‑front palming out of a gas‑station booklet to topping “Best Family‑Friendly Show” lists on the Las Vegas Strip and amassing billions of social‑video views. Along the way they dig into creative misfires, the treadmill of nightly shows, and why rehearsing a TikTok illusion can cost $20 K. From Gas‑Station Book to Barn‑Built Show Xavier’s origin story starts with a coincidence: his father picked up a sleight‑of‑hand booklet as a fuel‑pump freebie. Two weeks of rural vacation later, 15‑year‑old Xavier had mastered back‑ and front‑palming and was staging dorm‑room shows. Community magic clubs, antique‑store books and mail‑order tricks (that took days to arrive) filled the gap left by pre‑YouTube France. When a Paris producer spotted a 25‑minute mime‑magic set he’d built in a friend’s barn, she booked him into a Paris theatre—forcing him to create a full, story‑driven “Shadow Orchestra” show in just three months. Vegas Lessons—Freedom Comes at a Cost After three years and 10 shows a week in Michael Jackson ONE with Cirque du Soleil, Xavier traded security for his own 200‑seat Vegas residency. He quickly learned the hidden grind: schmoozing ticket brokers, delivering doughnuts to kiosk staff and covering ad, room‑rental and tax bills that swallowed profits. Creative course‑correction was constant—he tried to “Americanize” the material, then pivoted back toward the whimsical, word‑light style that first set him apart. Engineering Viral Wonder Today Xavier treats each short‑form video like a mini‑blockbuster: weeks of ideation with consultants, rehearsing gimmicks ten times on set, hiring multiple groups of spectators and shooting with three cameras to capture a genuine first‑take reaction—or scrapping it entirely if the magic falls flat. Budgets range from $1 K Instagram clips to $30 K YouTube epics, yet he still refuses reveals or CGI. The goal: craft visuals that will “age well,” just as TV magicians once did for a previous generation. Endless Chain Cyril Takayama – the street‑magic pioneer whose blend of cinematic visuals and live reactions inspired Xavier. Jonah, Xavier can connect you. Mentions Xavier Mortimer – https://www.xaviermortimer.com Michael Jackson ONE, Cirque du Soleil – https://www.cirquedusoleil.com/michael-jackson-one David Williamson – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Williamson_(magician) MrBeast – https://www.youtube.com/@MrBeast Airrack – https://www.youtube.com/@Airrack
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  The Business of Fringe Magic with Luke Oseland 10.06.2025 1Std. 14Min.

  In this episode, Jonah Babins is joined by rising UK magic star Luke Oseland to explore a journey that spans from toy magic sets and teenage tinkering to Fringe Festival sellouts and cruise ship stints. From co-creating Insane Magic to redefining how young magicians build their brands, Luke shares the behind-the-scenes of developing shows, finding your performance voice, and building a magic career from scratch. You’ll learn how to structure a magic show, when to take creative risks, and why sometimes the best marketing strategy is just putting on a killer show. How Luke Got Started in Magic Luke’s magic journey began like many—with a gift from his grandparents. But instead of fading interest, his obsession grew. He found early inspiration in televised magic like Penn & Teller: Fool Us and Dynamo, and later deepened his craft through the Young Magicians Club in London, a standout space for aspiring performers under 18. After aging out, he transitioned directly into the Magic Circle and began exploring his path as a creator, consultant, and eventually a performer. From Creator to Performer Luke initially leaned into the behind-the-scenes world of magic—creating, consulting, and selling effects—before realizing, at around age 19, that performing could be just as fulfilling. His move to Edinburgh was pivotal: by immersing himself in the city’s vibrant arts scene, he began gigging in clubs and bars, testing material at stand-up nights, and ultimately launching full productions at the Edinburgh Fringe. Building Magic Shows that Work Luke breaks down the process of creating shows like Drunk Magic, The Magic Hangover, and the crowd-favorite Insane Magic (with Cameron Gibson and Elliot Bibby). His philosophy is simple: start with great magic and let the narrative emerge naturally. While some magicians obsess over crafting a poetic through-line, Luke suggests focusing on structure, pacing, and audience experience—advice rooted in trial, error, and over 80 shows per month during the Fringe. Writing with a Team and Making It Work Collaborating on a show with two other magicians might sound like a nightmare, but Luke offers insights on how Insane Magic became a creative success. With clear roles, shared strengths (and occasional arguments), the team managed to build one of the most entertaining magic experiences on the Fringe circuit. From using Google Docs to obsessively fine-tuning one joke for 40 minutes, the process is messy—but worth it. Magic Clubs Done Right Unlike many North American magic clubs (which Luke and Jonah agree are often outdated), Luke shares how the Edinburgh Magic Circle is building a model for what community magic clubs should look like: young, vibrant, collaborative, and egoless. With guest lecturers like Michael Ammar and a casual pub-based meetup format, the club plays a crucial role in fostering a healthier, more progressive magic community. Fringe Economics and the Business of Performing Luke pulls back the curtain on what it really takes to succeed at the Edinburgh Fringe—from how much money you can make (or lose) to what types of performers benefit most. Whether you’re refining material, building a brand, or chasing cruise contracts, Luke makes a compelling case for why Fringe festivals—when approached strategically—are still one of the best opportunities in magic. Why Magicians Need to Be More Original Luke shares strong views on creativity in magic, including his frustration with magicians lifting material from Instagram clips or assuming every trick should be for sale. While he’s realistic about commercial magic’s role, he calls for more originality, especially among pros, and offers a passionate defense of creating magic that truly belongs to you. Endless Chain At the end of the episode, Luke recommends magician and consultant Harry De Cruz as a future guest. Known for his work with Dynamo and his role in revitalizing the Young Magicians Club, Harry brings a modern voice to the evolving magic landscape. Mentions Luke Oselan’s Instagram (@lukeosey) Insane Magic with Elliot Bibby and Cameron Gibson The Edinburgh Magic Circle The Magic Hangover (new 2025 Fringe show)
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  Summit, AI and Where I Am 29.05.2025 22Min.

  In this week’s episode of Discourse in Magic, Jonah Babins returns with a behind-the-scenes look at the Mexico Mastermind Summit, his latest adventures in AI, and what’s next for the magic community. After a brief hiatus, Jonah shares the lessons, breakthroughs, and future plans that are shaping his approach to magic and business in 2024. The Summit Experience: Magic, Community, and Growth Jonah kicks things off by recapping the recent Mastermind Summit in Cancun, where 40 magicians gathered for a week of learning, jamming, and business breakthroughs. Unlike traditional conventions, this summit focused on real-world magic—sharing “bangers” (the best tricks magicians actually perform), everyday carry routines, and even a spontaneous show where names were drawn from a sombrero. But the real value, Jonah explains, came from the community: magicians supporting each other, sharing feedback, and pushing each other to new heights. Whether you’re a seasoned pro or just starting out, Jonah emphasizes that surrounding yourself with a group of like-minded performers is the fastest way to grow. Three Big Lessons from the Summit Jonah distills his experience into three key takeaways: AI is Essential for Magicians The most popular session at the summit was all about using AI to supercharge your magic business. Jonah created custom GPTs to help magicians write viral posts and craft messages for clients—tools that attendees could use and implement on the spot. His message: AI isn’t just a trend, it’s a must-have skill for magicians who want to stay ahead. Magic Itself Needs More Focus While business skills are crucial, Jonah realized that magic—the craft itself—can’t be neglected. The Mastermind is now doubling down on helping members improve their performances, not just their marketing. From joke writing to effect selection and stage presence, the goal is to help every magician become legendary, not just successful. Community is Everything The biggest breakthrough? The power of working together. Whether it’s the Mastermind or your own circle of trusted friends, having a support system accelerates growth and makes the journey more fun. Jonah encourages listeners to find their own “band of magicians” if the Mastermind isn’t the right fit. Actionable AI Tips for Magicians Jonah shares his top strategies for making AI work for you: Use AI Every Day: Set your browser to open ChatGPT or your favorite AI tool by default. Better Prompts, Better Results: Use the “Role, Request, Context, Format” method to get more useful responses from AI. Teach AI About You: Take advantage of memory, custom instructions, and custom GPTs to personalize your AI’s output. Stay Ahead of the Curve: As AI changes how people find and book magicians, building a strong brand and community is more important than ever. Where to Find Jonah This Summer Jonah is hitting the road! If you’re in LA (May 27–30), Chicago (June 8–11), Philly (June 23–26), Mentions Follow Jonah on Instagram: @discourseinmagic Email Jonah: [email protected] Previous episode with David Gerard on the power of a creative circle. We’d love to hear your thoughts on this episode! What’s your biggest takeaway from the summit, or your favorite AI tip? Share your thoughts in the comments or on social media, and let’s keep growing together. Be sure to subscribe to Discourse in Magic for more insights, tips, and strategies to elevate your magic business.  
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  Pioneering Corporate Magic with Bill Herz 11.04.2025 1Std. 28Min.

  In this episode, Jonah Babins is joined by corporate magic legend Bill Herz to unpack a career that spans summer camps, corporate boardrooms, and headline features in The Wall Street Journal. From his early days performing with Paul Cummins to founding Magicorp and representing world-class talent, Bill shares the highs, the hustle, and the hilarious behind-the-scenes of building a career in corporate magic. You’ll learn what makes a magician bookable, how to navigate pricing, and why a magician’s greatest asset might be understanding the client better than they understand themselves. How Bill Got Started in Magic Like many magicians, Bill’s journey began with a magic set at eight years old. But what set him apart was a unique blend of showmanship, business sense, and a willingness to perform for anyone, anywhere—from birthday parties to summer camps and community centers. The Creation of Magicorp What started with teaching a CEO one simple trick became a revolutionary corporate entertainment concept. Bill realized the power of using magic as a tool in business communication, eventually founding Magicorp to help executives shine and manage bookings for the best in the industry. What Makes a Magician Corporate-Ready Bill breaks down what he looks for in the performers he books—hint: it’s more than a good show. From being able to describe what makes you different in one sentence, to being professional, personable, and ego-free, he outlines the traits that help magicians thrive in the corporate world. Understanding Your Value and Pricing Pricing is more than picking a number—it’s about asking the right questions and understanding what the client needs. Bill shares how he approaches pricing based on value, logistics, and market perception, and why being flexible (but smart) is essential to getting booked and respected. Social Media, Managers, and Magician Mistakes Bill doesn’t hold back when talking about magicians on social media and their obsession with “busy bragging.” He also dives into why having a manager or being repped by a big agency can sometimes hurt more than help—and how magicians can avoid sabotaging their own careers. Endless Chain At the end of the episode, Bill recommends magician Derek Hughes as a future guest. A brilliant performer and a friend of Bill’s, Derek brings a unique blend of comedy and magic that works exceptionally well in the corporate space. Mentions Bill Herz’s Website Magicorp – Corporate Magic Booking Agency David Copperfield Mac King Ben Seidman Colin Cloud  
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  Leah Orleans: Pushing Boundaries in Magic 30.03.2025 1Std. 5Min.

  In this episode of Discourse in Magic, Jonah Babins sits down with magician, circus performer, and entertainer Leah Orleans to discuss her unique journey in magic, her experiences blending circus arts with illusion, and how she pushes the boundaries of traditional performance. Leah shares insights into how she found her place in the magic world, her approach to creating engaging and original performances, and the lessons she’s learned along the way. Finding Magic in the Circus Leah’s entry into the world of magic was anything but conventional. She started as a circus performer, mastering aerial arts, juggling, and acrobatics before discovering how magic could enhance her performances. Her background in physical theater and movement helped her develop a distinctive performance style that captivates audiences in a way few traditional magicians can. Standing Out in a Male-Dominated Industry As a female performer in both circus and magic, Leah has navigated challenges and misconceptions while forging her own path. She discusses the importance of representation, the struggles of being underestimated, and how she has turned those obstacles into strengths. By bringing a fresh perspective and a multidisciplinary approach to her craft, she continues to inspire others to think outside the box. Creating Unique and Immersive Experiences Leah shares her process for designing routines that seamlessly blend magic with circus arts. From crafting new illusions to reimagining classic tricks, she explains how movement and storytelling play a crucial role in her work. She also dives into the creative risks she takes to ensure each performance is not only visually stunning but also deeply engaging for her audiences. Advice for Performers and Magicians For those looking to break into the world of performance, Leah offers practical advice on developing a distinct style, building confidence on stage, and continuously refining one’s craft. She emphasizes the importance of perseverance, experimentation, and finding one’s unique voice in an industry that often leans toward tradition. Endless Chain April Jennifer Choi Where to Find Leah Orleans To learn more about Leah Orleans, her performances, and upcoming projects, follow her on social media and check out her website: Website: Leah Orleans’ Website Instagram: @LeahOrleans Facebook: Leah Orleans Magic & Circus
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  Jonah Babins: Magic’s Business Whisperer 15.03.2025 37Min.

  This week on Discourse in Magic, we’re bringing you a special repost of Jonah Babins’ appearance on the Penguin Magic Podcast, hosted by Erik Tait. Jonah, the long-time host of Discourse in Magic, takes the guest seat and shares insights on the world of magic, business, and podcasting. How Jonah Built Discourse in Magic  Jonah shares the journey of how Discourse in Magic has grown over the years. He discusses the evolution of the show, the challenges of maintaining a podcast in the magic space, and what has kept him going for nearly a decade. Jonah explains his strategy for selecting guests, emphasizing the importance of personal interest. He shares how being genuinely curious about a guest’s work leads to more engaging and meaningful conversations. The Evolution of His Magic Career  Jonah reflects on how his interests have changed over time. While Discourse in Magic initially focused on deep philosophical discussions, his passion has shifted toward the practical aspects of magic, especially business growth and performance.  Jonah shares insights into his Mastermind program, where he helps magicians grow their businesses. He talks about the structure of the program, its benefits, and the transformative results that many of his students have experienced. The Three Key Pillars of a Successful Magic Business Jonah breaks down the fundamental elements necessary to build a thriving magic business. He details how generating leads, improving sales techniques, and optimizing business systems can help magicians increase their income and efficiency. Jonah emphasizes the power of having a supportive network. He explains how magicians in his Mastermind program benefit from shared knowledge, accountability, and expert guidance to help them achieve their business goals. Mentions Jonah’s Magic Business Coaching Discourse in Magic Instagram Vote for Jonah in the FM Magic Podcast Awards  Enjoy the episode and don’t forget to subscribe for more deep dives into the art and business of magic!