Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy

Epizode

• 506: Live Work with Ruben Part 2 of 2 15.06.2026 1h 8min
• 505: Live Work with Ruben: Part 1 of 2 08.06.2026 45min

  Live Work with Ruben: Part 1 of 2 Working with Performance Anxiety in Real Time Hosts: Kevin Cornelius, LMFT Dr. David Burns Guests: Dr. Jill Levitt Ruben Land In this live work from a recent Tuesday Group, we had the opportunity to work with Ruben, a highly capable and thoughtful clinician, who brought a struggle that many therapists quietly share: intense performance anxiety in evaluative situations, especially in the presence of authority figures or people he deeply admires. What made this work especially powerful is that Ruben was actively experiencing anxiety in the moment, allowing us to "get in the car with him" rather than talk about the problem abstractly. We began, as always in TEAM-CBT, with Testing. Ruben had completed a Brief Mood Survey, which showed relatively low baseline symptoms—just mild anxiety and minimal depression or anger. However, when we reviewed his Daily Mood Log, anchored to a specific situation (leading a group under supervision), we saw a very different picture: anxiety at 70%, feelings of inferiority and defectiveness at 80%, embarrassment at 70%. This contrast highlights a core principle: symptoms are often situational and state-dependent, and without anchoring in a specific moment, we risk missing the true intensity of the problem. From there, we moved into Empathy, where Jill did a beautiful job modeling the Five Secrets of Effective Communication. She captured Ruben's internal experience with precision: the pressure to perform, the fear of saying the wrong thing, the spiral of anxiety leading to cognitive blanking, and the secondary anxiety about appearing anxious. She also identified both the internal loop ("I'm anxious about being anxious") and the interpersonal fears ("they'll think I'm a fraud," "I'm wasting their time"). David complemented this with curiosity and gentle inquiry, helping to deepen the conceptualization without getting lost in theory. Importantly, we conducted an empathy check, asking Ruben to grade us on thought empathy, feeling empathy, and warmth. He gave A+ ratings across the board, with a slight adjustment on thought empathy when he introduced an additional element: a compulsive need to check and recheck, suggesting a subtle OCD-like process. This moment is critical—without the empathy check, we would have missed an important maintaining factor. Only after strong empathy did we move into Agenda Setting, which is often the most counterintuitive and transformative part of TEAM-CBT. David began with the Invitation, asking whether Ruben wanted help or more support. Ruben was ready to "roll up his sleeves," which is essential—no imposed agenda. Then we used the Miracle Question to clarify goals: Ruben wanted to feel less anxious, maintain fluency, and stay present in high-stakes situations. Next came the Magic Button, targeting outcome resistance. When asked if he would eliminate all his negative feelings, Ruben said no—he wanted to keep some anxiety. This is exactly what we hope for. It opens the door to Positive Reframing, where we honor the symptoms rather than pathologize them. Together, we identified numerous positive values and benefits of his anxiety and self-doubt: Anxiety motivates preparation and effort It enhances connection through vulnerability It reflects caring deeply about others and their time Feelings of inadequacy keep him humble and growth-oriented Fear of judgment protects him and signals high standards Even the thought "I might be a fraud" reflects a desire to be authentic and competent At one point, Ruben articulated that his anxiety shows he values others and wants to contribute meaningfully—this is a profound reframe. Jill and David reinforced these insights, helping him see that his "symptoms" are actually expressions of his values system in action. We also explored a key factor: his anxiety is amplified in performative, evaluative contexts, especially with authority figures, and is less intense in vulnerable, non-evaluative settings. This distinction is clinically crucial and guides both conceptualization and intervention. Another powerful moment came when Ruben acknowledged that self-disclosure reduces his anxiety, supporting the idea that "shame requires secrecy." When he hides his anxiety, it intensifies; when he shares it, it softens. This is both a therapeutic tool and a treatment target. After thoroughly addressing resistance, we moved into Goal Setting, asking Ruben not what he wants to eliminate, but what he wants to dial down. This is a hallmark of TEAM: Anxiety: 70 → 30 Shame: 30 → 20 Inadequacy: 80 → 30 Embarrassment: 70 → 20 We then transitioned into Methods, targeting the thought: "My speech is too slow, and I sound foolish, ignorant, and boring." Jill began with a classic but essential step: identify the distortions. Ruben quickly identified all-or-nothing thinking, overgeneralization, mental filter, discounting positives, mind reading, fortune telling, labeling, self-blame, and hidden "shoulds." This is an important teaching point: when a thought contains nearly all distortions, it's not a problem—it's a goldmine. From there, rather than staying intellectual, we offered multiple method pathways—Externalization of Voices, Feared Fantasy, Be Specific, and Double Standard—modeling flexibility and collaboration. Ruben chose Externalization of Voices, which became the central method. David stepped in as the Negative Ruben, delivering the attack clearly and forcefully. This is essential—the more vivid the critic, the more powerful the response. Ruben responded using a blend of acceptance ("it's true I sometimes pause"), self-defense, and realism (some people may not like it, and that's okay). He won "big," but not "huge," which is a key TEAM moment—we don't settle for partial wins. They then moved into role reversal, and this is where things deepened. When Ruben played the critic and David responded, David modeled a powerful combination of self-acceptance, counterattack, and refusal to buy into the critic's frame. He highlighted that the real problem wasn't slow speech—it was the constant inner criticism. Ruben immediately recognized this as a "huge" win. Ruben then practiced again, this time integrating acceptance, values ("my heart is in the right place"), and counterattack ("the bigger problem is your nagging voice"). This time it felt huge. Next, they targeted a different thought: "If I screw up, David will be disgusted and see I'm a worthless, selfish fraud." This brought up more anxiety, and Ruben got stuck. Jill did something very important here—she paused the method and returned to empathy, naming the pressure to "do it right" and the performance anxiety happening inside the exercise itself. After empathy, they resumed. Jill modeled a powerful response in role reversal that included radical acceptance of imperfection ("I expect to screw up"), a growth mindset ("that's why I collect feedback"), and a reframe of failure as essential to learning. She also gently challenged the distortion of David as a harsh authority figure and emphasized choosing supportive learning environments. Ruben then extended this insight even further, saying, "the more I fail, the better… the more vulnerable I am, the less I appear like a fraud." This was a genuine shift. They then moved into Feared Fantasy, with David playing "David from Hell," saying things like "you're incompetent," "you're worthless," and "you should find another profession." Ruben responded by using Be Specific, asking what exactly he had done wrong. When the answer became "you paused," the entire structure of the criticism collapsed. Ruben saw the absurdity and described the experience as a weight lifting. This is a classic TEAM moment—when global, harsh judgments are reduced to specific, manageable behaviors, they lose their power. They extended this further with the thought "I'm wasting people's time." Through additional role plays, Ruben practiced self-defense and purpose clarification, David used humor and counterattack, and Jill demonstrated Be Specific in a very precise way—asking exactly how long a pause should be, exposing the irrationality of the standard. The work then expanded to include the group. Participants used Externalization of Voices to challenge Ruben's thoughts, and Ruben responded with increasing strength and clarity, using self-acceptance and reversal of beliefs (for example, recognizing that vulnerability actually increases connection). David then introduced the Survey Technique, asking Ruben to directly check his assumptions with the group. The responses were striking—people reported never noticing pauses, experiencing him as thoughtful and engaging, and feeling more connected because of his style. This directly disconfirmed his mind reading and labeling. At the end, they returned to Testing. Anxiety went from 70 to 0, shame from 30 to 0, inadequacy from 80 to 10, embarrassment from 70 to 0, rejection from 40 to 0, and frustration from 30 to 0. Ruben reported that the change felt real and that his belief in the negative thoughts had dropped dramatically. When asked what created the breakthrough, Ruben identified two key moments. First, a deep emotional realization that the goal is actually to make mistakes—that failure is not something to avoid but something to embrace. Second, a shift in how he saw authority figures—recognizing that the perceived gap between himself and others was distorted. As that sense of separation dissolved, so did much of the anxiety. David highlighted that much of our suffering comes from that artificial separation—seeing others as powerful and ourselves as deficient. Jill added an important layer: when we assume others are harsh, judgmental, and critical, we are also distorting them, not just ourselves. Some key clinical takeaways: Externalization of Voices becomes especially powerful when it includes emotion, repetition, and role reversal. Feared Fantasy works best when the criticism becomes specific and even a bit absurd. The Survey Technique is extremely effective for dismantling mind-reading. And often, breakthrough comes when patients fully embrace failure and let go of perfectionism. Let Us Know What You Think of This Episode Please use this link to take a very brief survey and share your opinion with us about this episode Contact Information You can reach Jill Levitt, PhD Jill Levitt . Jill is cofounder and Director of Clinical Training at The Feeling Good Institute (www.feelinggoodinstitute.com) in Mountain View, California.  Ruben Land is an Associate Social Worker at Feeling Good Institute. He provides psychotherapy, using TEAM-CBT, and is available to work with clients in California. You can reach Ruben at ruben@feelinggoodinstitute.com and visit him online at this link. Kevin Cornelius, LMFT is a Level 5 Certified Master TEAM-CBT Therapist and Trainer and the Clinical Director of Feeling Good Institute--Silicon Valley. He specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, relationship problems and insomnia. You can reach Kevin at kevin@feelinggoodinstitute.com and visit his website at www.tools4change.me. You can reach Dr. Burns at david@feelinggood.com. Feeling down in these turbulent times? Take a ride on our Feeling Great app. Feeling Great feels wonderful! You owe it to yourself to feel GREAT! Give the Greatest Gifts of ALL--Love and Happiness!
• 504: The Moment You're in Matters More Than the One You Remember 01.06.2026 44min

  The Moment You're in Matters More Than the One You Remember You Can Recover from Trauma by Focusing on the Present Hosts:Kevin Cornelius, LMFT Dr. David Burns Episode Overview In this powerful episode, Dr. David Burns shares transformative insights from decades of clinical experience treating depression and trauma. Through compelling real-life stories, he challenges the traditional belief that healing requires deep exploration of the past. Instead, he reveals that you do not need to deal with the past to overcome the impact of trauma or recover from depression. Real change can happen rapidly by focusing on thoughts in the present moment. Key Takeaways You don't need to explore the past—even for trauma Dr. Burns challenges the idea that recovery requires revisiting painful memories. You do not need to deal with the past to overcome the impact of trauma. Instead, healing comes from addressing the thoughts and beliefs you're having right now. Thoughts—not events—create emotional suffering Depression and trauma-related distress are driven by distorted thinking. When those thoughts are exposed as untrue, emotional relief can be immediate. Rapid recovery is possible—even in severe cases Patients can experience dramatic improvement in just a few sessions—or even minutes. Trauma patients, often considered "hard to treat," can respond quickly using present-focused methods. "You do not need to deal with the past to overcome the impact of trauma or recover from depression. All of your suffering is contained in how you're thinking in this moment—and when you change those thoughts, you can change how you feel immediately." Resources Mentioned Feeling Great App – Free tool for improving mood and applying CBT techniques Dr. Burns' Website – Free resources, tools, and exercises Psychology Today Articles – Scroll the page for many articles by David Final Thought If you're struggling right now, there is hope—and possibly faster relief than you've been led to believe. You don't have to spend years digging into your past. By examining your thoughts in the present moment, you may already have everything you need to start feeling better today. https://traffic.libsyn.com/feelinggood/Episode_504_-_Feeling_Good_Podcast.mp3 Listener Invitation Have a question you'd like Dr. Burns to answer in a future episode?Submit it through the Feeling Great app or the Feeling Good Podcast website. Let Us Know What You Think of This Episode Please use this link to take a very brief survey and share your opinion with us about this episode Contact Information Kevin Cornelius, LMFT is a Level 5 Certified Master TEAM-CBT Therapist and Trainer and the Clinical Director of Feeling Good Institute--Silicon Valley. He specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, relationship problems and insomnia. You can reach Kevin at kevin@feelinggoodinstitute.com and visit his website at www.tools4change.me. You can reach Dr. Burns at david@feelinggood.com. Feeling down in these turbulent times? Take a ride on our Feeling Great app Feeling Great feels wonderful! You owe it to yourself to feel GREAT! Give the Greatest Gifts of ALL--Love and Happiness!
• 503: Is It Time for a New Approach to Emotional Suffering 25.05.2026 1h 3min

  Is it Time for a New Approach to Emotional Suffering? Advantages and Disadvantages of DSM Diagnoses Hosts: Kevin Cornelius, LMFT Dr. David Burns Episode Summary In this thought-provoking episode, Dr. David Burns and host Kevin Cornelius, LMFT explore a topic that shapes nearly every corner of modern mental health care: psychiatric diagnosis. For decades, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) has defined how clinicians diagnose, treat, and research emotional suffering. But what if many of these diagnostic categories don't represent distinct medical diseases? What if they are simply normal human emotions—like sadness, anxiety, or shame—occurring on a spectrum? Dr. Burns draws on decades of clinical experience, research, and insights from TEAM-CBT to question the assumptions behind psychiatric labeling. While diagnoses can sometimes reduce stigma or help people access care, they can also unintentionally shape identity, medicalize everyday emotional struggles, and distract from the real drivers of emotional pain. This episode offers a nuanced conversation about labels, measurement, therapy, and what actually helps people recover from depression and anxiety. In This Episode You'll Learn What the DSM is—and why it became so influential How the DSM functions as the "diagnostic bible" of psychiatry Why the system was originally designed for research standardization, not necessarily for everyday clinical treatment The difference between true mental disorders and normal emotional experiences Examples of genuine brain disorders such as schizophrenia and bipolar I disorder Why many DSM diagnoses describe normal emotions taken to an extreme How everyday struggles became medical diagnoses Shyness becoming "social anxiety disorder" Chronic worry becoming "generalized anxiety disorder" Why time-based thresholds (like "14 days of depression") can be arbitrary The unintended consequences of diagnostic labels How labels can reinforce feelings of shame or defectiveness Why diagnoses can sometimes lead to over-medicalization and medication-focused care Why measurement matters more than diagnosis in therapy Dr. Burns explains how simple mood scales can quickly assess a patient's emotional state Research showing that DSM diagnoses often add little predictive value for treatment outcomes A surprising research finding After lengthy diagnostic interviews, clinicians were only 3–5% accurate at estimating patients' feelings in the moment What this reveals about the limits of traditional diagnostic approaches Why focusing on thoughts may be the key According to cognitive research, negative thoughts drive emotional suffering Effective therapy focuses on identifying and transforming these thoughts Hope for people who feel defined by a diagnosis Why diagnoses do not determine your ability to recover How targeted cognitive techniques can sometimes produce rapid improvements—even within a single session Benefits of Diagnosis (According to Dr. Burns) While the episode critiques diagnostic labeling, the conversation also highlights situations where diagnoses can help: Access to insurance coverage Eligibility for disability or academic accommodations Temporary relief from self-blame Clear communication in research studies Key Takeaway Mental health diagnoses can sometimes be useful administrative tools—but they should never define who you are. Real healing often comes from understanding the specific thoughts, moments, and experiences that drive emotional pain, and learning practical methods to change them. Mentioned in This Episode Dr. Burns' article: "Is It Time for a New Approach to Emotional Suffering?" (Psychology Today) TEAM-CBT approach to psychotherapy Brief Mood Survey and other measurement tools used in therapy Memorable Quote "We treat humans, not disorders." Connect & Learn More Read Dr. Burns' latest articles on Psychology Today Explore more tools and resources at FeelingGood.com Learn about TEAM-CBT training and techniques If you enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing, sharing the podcast, or leaving a review. It helps more people discover tools for overcoming depression and anxiety. Let Us Know What You Think of This Episode Please use this link to take a very brief survey and share your opinion with us about this episode Contact Information Kevin Cornelius, LMFT is a Level 5 Certified Master TEAM-CBT Therapist and Trainer and the Clinical Director of Feeling Good Institute--Silicon Valley. He specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, relationship problems and insomnia. You can reach Kevin at kevin@feelinggoodinstitute.com and visit his website at www.tools4change.me. You can reach Dr. Burns at david@feelinggood.com. Feeling down in these turbulent times? Take a ride on our Feeling Great app. Feeling Great feels wonderful! You owe it to yourself to feel GREAT! Give the Greatest Gifts of ALL--Love and Happiness!
• Starting in June: Get TEAM CBT Certified Fast (46 CEs) 19.05.2026 1min

  COMING UP IN JUNE: Fast Track to LEVEL 3 TEAM CBT Certification Hi there! If you're a therapist looking to strengthen your TEAM CBT skills and earn continuing education credit, here's an exceptional opportunity coming up in June 2026. Feeling Good Institute's Fast Track to Level 3 TEAM CBT Certification Starts June 22, 2026 • 25 weeks • 46 CEs Special Offer for Podcast Listeners: Use discount code FRIEND for a course price of $795. Learn More and Enroll Now at FastTrackCBT.com. If you want to level up your therapy skills for the rest of your career, this may be the ideal time.
• 502: Ask David: Is High-Speed Change a "Quick Fix"? 18.05.2026 1h 5min

  Ask David: Is High Speed Change a Quick Fix? Trauma, Anxiety, and What Really Works Hosts: Kevin Cornelius, LMFT Dr. David Burns Guest: Dr. Rhonda Barovsky Episode Summary In this powerful Ask David episode, Dr. David Burns, Kevin Cornelius, and Dr. Rhonda Barovsky tackle two deeply important listener questions: Is rapid emotional recovery just a "quick fix," especially for people with severe trauma? How can someone manage intense anxiety and "what if" thoughts in the moment—when they keep coming back? Through vivid clinical stories, real examples from the Feeling Great app, and live demonstrations of TEAM-CBT techniques, the panel explores why working in the present moment can lead to profound and lasting emotional change—even for people with severe trauma histories. Question 1: Is Fast Change Just a "Quick Fix"? Dr. Burns responds to a question inspired by the story of Elise, a Holocaust survivor who recovered from severe depression after challenging a single, devastating belief: "I've never accomplished anything meaningful in my life." When that belief was overturned, Elise's depression disappeared—immediately. Listeners often wonder: Was something deeper left unresolved? Doesn't trauma require long-term exploration of the past? Dr. Burns shares: 50 years of clinical experience producing rapid, measurable symptom elimination Research from the Feeling Great app showing that current thoughts—not past suffering—predict change Why working in the present moment automatically transforms the past Why many therapy schools rely on belief systems rather than data He also discusses new findings (recently published in Psychology Today) showing that prior depression over the last two years adds zero predictive value once current mood and thoughts are addressed. "The moment you're in is vastly more important than the one you remember." Question 2: What If My Anxious Thoughts Keep Coming Back? The second question comes from Dina, a college student overwhelmed by social anxiety and catastrophic "what if" thoughts about meeting with her professor. Despite successfully completing a Daily Mood Log and reducing her anxiety to near zero, Dina finds that the thoughts keep returning in real-life situations. The team explains why this happens—and what to do next. Key strategies discussed: Why cognitive work alone isn't enough for anxiety The importance of exposure and testing fears in real situations Using self-disclosure to dissolve shame Turning anxiety into connection rather than avoidance Role-playing feared scenarios ("Professor from Hell") Externalization of voices Feared fantasy and "what-if" techniques Shame-attacking exercises Asking for real feedback instead of guessing what others think Identifying hidden emotions (such as unexpressed anger) Understanding interpersonal roles and rules that fuel anxiety Multiple techniques are demonstrated live, showing how anxiety collapses when fears are brought into the open with warmth, humor, and honesty. Key Takeaways Rapid emotional change is not a gimmick—it can be measured, replicated, and sustained Trauma is embedded in the present moment, not trapped in the past Anxiety persists when we hide, not when we feel Exposure + self-disclosure = freedom You don't need to eliminate negative thoughts—just stop believing them The Feeling Great app offers free, evidence-based tools anyone can use Tools & Resources Mentioned Feeling Great App (free): https://feelinggreat.com Daily Mood Log TEAM-CBT tools: Motivational Methods Cognitive Techniques Exposure Hidden Emotion Work Five Secrets of Effective Communication Psychology Today article: "The Moment You're In Is Vastly More Important Than the One You Remember" Memorable Quotes "When we change the present, we change the past." — Dr. David Burns "Shame is like a vampire—it can't survive the light of day." "Stop doing one thing and expecting it to work for everyone." "You don't need to be perfect to feel better." Listener Invitation Have a question you'd like Dr. Burns to answer on a future episode? Submit it through the Feeling Great app or the Feeling Good Podcast website. Kevin, Rhonda, and I thank you for listening today!  Let Us Know What You Think of This Episode Please use this link to take a very brief survey and share your opinion with us about this episode Contact Information Kevin Cornelius, LMFT is a Level 5 Certified Master TEAM-CBT Therapist and Trainer and the Clinical Director of Feeling Good Institute--Silicon Valley. He specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, relationship problems and insomnia. You can reach Kevin at kevin@feelinggoodinstitute.com and visit his website at www.tools4change.me. Dr. Rhonda Barovsky is a Level 5 Certified TEAM-CBT Master Therapist and Trainer and specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, and relationship problems. Check out her website: www.feelinggreattherapycenter.com. You can reach Dr. Burns at david@feelinggood.com. Feeling down in these turbulent times? Take a ride on our Feeling Great app. Feeling Great feels wonderful! You owe it to yourself to feel GREAT! Give the Greatest Gifts of ALL--Love and Happiness!
• 501: Ask David: Help! Relentless Anger–Nothing Works! Is Freedom of Speech a "Need?" Or "Want?" 11.05.2026 37min

  Ask David: Help! Relentless Anger! Nothing Works! Is Freedom of Speech a "Need?" Hosts: Kevin Cornelius, LMFT Dr. David Burns Guest: Dr. Rhonda Barovsky Today I am thrilled to be working with our new host for the Feeling Good Podcast, Mr. Kevin Cornelius, a dear friend and brilliant therapist who works as a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist at the Feeling Good Institute in Mt. View, California. Today, Keven starts a multi-podcast trial as our new host to find out how he likes the new position, and how you, are audience feel. It will be hard for anyone to fill Rhonda's shoes, of course, but Kevin brings his own combination of warmth, charm, and brilliance to the show. I hope you like the new show! Let us know what you think! Today, we address three questions: Question #1: How do you deal with a "relentlessly angry" patient who does not respond to the five secrets of effective communication? Question #2: How can I deal with a patient who may have been triggered by my phone call when I had to change l a scheduled session? Question #3: Zach asks if freedom of speech is a "want" or a "need." Hi David and Kevin: I have cleared my schedule so I can be there to support Kevin in his first podcast,. I have two questions for the Ask David podcast: 1.) How do you handle a "relentlessly angry" patient? By that I mean, one of your patient's is upset with you, you respond with a skillful 5-secrets response and yet they continue being angry with you, even screaming at you for 30 minutes. David's comment: The discussion of this excellent question got a little heated, as David pointed out that in his experience, when people say "I tried the Five Secrets and it didn't work," 100% of the time they did not actually do a skillful job with the Five Secrets. David asked for the familiar format: What is ONE thing the (angry) patient said, and what, EXACTLY, did you say next? Put this on a Relationship Journal and you will be able to spot your errors right away. David reports that this format does tend to anger people who don't want to have to examine their own role in a relationship problem. The idea that they may have botched the Five Secrets appears to be deeply disturbing, hence the heated discussion today. 2.) How do you handle what is happening "in the here and now" immediate moment, the here and now, with your patient? For example, I had to change an appointment with a patient, she became really angry, and then cancelled her next appointment. One of my colleagues suggested that my patient might have felt triggered when I cancelled the appointment. My colleague suggested I talk to her about what happened when I asked her to change the appointment because if she felt abandoned by me she might have the same experience with other people. How would I bring up what is happening in our relationship with my patient, that they may also experience in other relationships? I could probably think of a few more, Rhonda 3) Dear Dr. Burns, Hello. I hope this message finds you well. I'm writing to ask you a question that has been on my mind. You have mentioned before that freedom of speech is an important part of your value system. I'm curious about how you would frame it psychologically: do you see freedom of speech more as a want, or as a need? Relatedly, for people living in non-democratic countries, do you think it is still possible to achieve a high level of happiness without freedom of speech? I would greatly appreciate your thoughts when you have the time. Thank you very much for your work and for sharing your perspectives. Warm regards, Zack David's Comment: This led to a lively discussion and a consensus on our panel today. We decided that freedom of speech is a great thing, and a strong want, but not a "need." David added: "I am certain that you can find happiness by focusing on the things most important to you, but no one can be happy all the time. We desperately WANT, but definitely do not NEED, freedom of speech. Of course, you can say, "we need it to have a fully functioning democracy," and that is true, but it true by definition. Kevin, Rhonda, and David thank you for listening today. Again, let us know what you think! Let Us Know What You Think of This Episode Please use this link to take a very brief survey and share your opinion with us about this episode Contact Information Kevin Cornelius, LMFT is a Level 5 Certified Master TEAM-CBT Therapist and Trainer and the Clinical Director of Feeling Good Institute--Silicon Valley. He specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, relationship problems and insomnia. You can reach Kevin at kevin@feelinggoodinstitute.com and visit his website at www.tools4change.me. Dr. Rhonda Barovsky is a Level 5 Certified TEAM-CBT Master Therapist and Trainer and specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, and relationship problems. Check out her website: www.feelinggreattherapycenter.com. You can reach Dr. Burns at david@feelinggood.com. Feeling down in these turbulent times? Take a ride on our Feeling Great app. Feeling Great feels wonderful! You owe it to yourself to feel GREAT! Give the Greatest Gifts of ALL--Love and Happiness!
• 500: Celebrating Rhonda's Triumphant Leadership - and a Sad Goodbye 04.05.2026 1h 12min

    500: Celebrating Rhonda's Triumphant Leadership - and a Sad Goodbye In this very special 500th episode of the Feeling Good Podcast, Matt May, Jill Levitt and I pause to celebrate a remarkable milestone, our 500th episode of the Feeling Good podcast, and to honor someone who has been at the heart of it for the past 273 episodes: Rhonda Barovsky Since stepping into the role of host, Rhonda has brought warmth, wisdom, curiosity, and deep compassion to every conversation. Her presence has helped shape the podcast into a trusted space for learning, healing, personal growth, and building the TEAM community. Week after week, she has guided thoughtful discussions on mood, relationships, anxiety, depression, and the many challenges of being human—with authenticity and grace. Rhonda's unique ability to ask meaningful questions, highlight practical tools, and connect with listeners has made an immeasurable impact. Whether exploring TEAM CBT techniques or sharing personal reflections, she has helped countless listeners feel seen, understood, and empowered. As Rhonda steps down from her role as host, this episode is dedicated to celebrating her contributions and expressing deep gratitude for all she has given to this community. In this episode, we: Reflect on Rhonda's journey with the podcast and how she became such an integral part of its success Highlight memorable moments and favorite episodes from her time as host Share behind-the-scenes stories and personal reflections Express appreciation from listeners and the broader Feeling Good community This is not goodbye—it's a transition. Rhonda leaves behind a powerful legacy and a strong foundation that will continue to inspire future episodes and listeners around the world. Thank you, Rhonda, for your dedication, your heart, and your unwavering commitment to helping people feel better. And to our listeners: thank you for being part of these 500 episodes. We're so glad you're here—and we're excited for what comes next as Kevin Cornelius steps into the role of the Feeling Good Podcast host.  Welcome, Kevin! Warmly, David, Rhonda, Matt and Jill
• 499: Live Work with Hiral, Part 2 of 2 27.04.2026 1h 50min

  Inside the Therapy Room: A Live TEAM CBT Session with Hiral-- The Exciting Conclusion! Part 2 of 2 Overview What an incredible day. David and I had the privilege of working with Hiral, a young mother from India who was drowning in perfectionism, self-criticism, and the crushing weight of trying to be everything to everyone. Over the course of about two hours, we watched her transform from someone scoring 100% on depression, anxiety, guilt, shame, and hopelessness to feeling peaceful, relaxed, and genuinely joyful—with most scores dropping to zero. This wasn't magic. It was TEAM-CBT done systematically, with measurement, genuine empathy, paradoxical agenda setting, and powerful cognitive techniques. And yes, Hiral did most of the heavy lifting herself once we got out of her way. For those of you who attended or are reading this summary, I want to walk you through what happened—not just what we did, but why it worked. Because here's the thing: this will look deceptively simple. That's the trap. TEAM-CBT is among the hardest therapeutic approaches to master, precisely because each step exists on multiple levels and requires you to change before your patients can change. Let's dig in. The Setup: Who Was Hiral? Hiral is a mother of an almost-four-year-old son, living in a joint family in Gujarat, India, with her husband and in-laws. She's also studying to become a TEAM-CBT therapist herself, preparing for her Level 3 certification exam. But beneath these roles, Hiral was suffering: Feeling like a failure as a mother Constant self-criticism and perfectionism Trapped in a rigid family environment with little emotional support Isolated from friends, her own parents, and the vibrant life she once had Plagued by guilt, shame, anxiety, and hopelessness—all at 100% Sound familiar? I'll bet many of you have worked with someone like Hiral. Or maybe you've been Hiral at some point in your life. I know I have. T = Testing: The Emotional X-Ray Before we even said hello to Hiral, she completed the Brief Mood Survey—David's ultra-reliable, ultra-short measures of depression, anxiety, anger, happiness, and relationship satisfaction right now, in this moment. Her scores were staggering: Depression: 11/20 (moderate, with "sad," "down," and "hopeless" all elevated) Anxiety: 14/20 (moderate to severe) Anger: 14/20 (same intensity as anxiety) Happiness: 8/20 (very low) Relationship Satisfaction: 10/30 (significant dissatisfaction with her husband) Why this matters: Most therapists never measure how their patients feel. They think they know, but research shows therapist accuracy is around 3-10% on depression, suicidality, anxiety, and anger. Zero percent on suicidal urges. Think about that. Without measurement, you're flying blind. With it, you have an emotional X-ray that shows you exactly where the patient is hurting—and later, exactly how much you've helped (or haven't). TEAM-CBT Pearl: Testing isn't optional. It's the foundation. Measure at the start of every session, and measure again at the end. If you're scared to see the results, that's your ego talking. E = Empathy: The Zero Technique For the first 30-40 minutes, David and I did... nothing. Well, not nothing—we listened. We used the Five Secrets of Effective Communication: Disarming Technique: Finding truth in what Hiral said Thought Empathy: Paraphrasing her thoughts Feeling Empathy: Acknowledging her emotions Inquiry: Asking gentle questions to help her open up Stroking: Conveying warmth and respect But here's the key: we gave her nothing. No advice. No cheerleading. No problem-solving. We call this the Zero Technique—giving the patient nothing is actually giving them everything, because what they want most is to feel understood. The Empathy Pitfall: DO NOT PREACH Early in empathy, it's tempting to: Problem-solve Rescue Educate Advise Cheerlead Help Resist. Your job is to go with your patient to the gates of hell and just be with them there. Checking Our Empathy After about 30 minutes, we asked Hiral to grade us on three dimensions (A, B, C, D, or F): Thought Empathy: How well did we understand her negative thoughts? Feeling Empathy: How well did we acknowledge her emotions? Warmth & Acceptance: Did she feel cared about and accepted? She gave us two A's and hesitated on the third. Why? She didn't feel we could truly understand her cultural context—the joint family system, the rigid in-laws, the isolation from her friends and parents. She felt alone even with us. This was gold. Instead of getting defensive, we leaned in. David shared his own experience living near in-laws with vastly different values. I shared my own struggles with perfectionism and parenting anxiety. Hiral started to cry—not from sadness, but from finally feeling seen. TEAM-CBT Pearl: When you get a failing grade on empathy, celebrate. It's your chance to deepen the connection. Process the failure with your patient, and watch the breakthrough happen.
• 498: Live Work with Hiral, Part 1 of 2 20.04.2026 1h 9min

  Inside the Therapy Room: A Live TEAM CBT Session with Hiral Part 1 of 2 Overview What an incredible day. David and I had the privilege of working with Hiral, a young mother from India who was drowning in perfectionism, self-criticism, and the crushing weight of trying to be everything to everyone. Over the course of about two hours, we watched her transform from someone scoring 100% on depression, anxiety, guilt, shame, and hopelessness to feeling peaceful, relaxed, and genuinely joyful—with most scores dropping to zero. This wasn't magic. It was TEAM-CBT done systematically, with measurement, genuine empathy, paradoxical agenda setting, and powerful cognitive techniques. And yes, Hiral did most of the heavy lifting herself once we got out of her way. For those of you who attended or are reading this summary, I want to walk you through what happened—not just what we did, but why it worked. Because here's the thing: this will look deceptively simple. That's the trap. TEAM-CBT is among the hardest therapeutic approaches to master, precisely because each step exists on multiple levels and requires you to change before your patients can change. Let's dig in. The Setup: Who Was Hiral? Hiral is a mother of an almost-four-year-old son, living in a joint family in Gujarat, India, with her husband and in-laws. She's also studying to become a TEAM-CBT therapist herself, preparing for her Level 3 certification exam. But beneath these roles, Hiral was suffering: Feeling like a failure as a mother Constant self-criticism and perfectionism Trapped in a rigid family environment with little emotional support Isolated from friends, her own parents, and the vibrant life she once had Plagued by guilt, shame, anxiety, and hopelessness—all at 100% Sound familiar? I'll bet many of you have worked with someone like Hiral. Or maybe you've been Hiral at some point in your life. I know I have. T = Testing: The Emotional X-Ray Before we even said hello to Hiral, she completed the Brief Mood Survey—David's ultra-reliable, ultra-short measures of depression, anxiety, anger, happiness, and relationship satisfaction right now, in this moment. Her scores were staggering: Depression: 11/20 (moderate, with "sad," "down," and "hopeless" all elevated) Anxiety: 14/20 (moderate to severe) Anger: 14/20 (same intensity as anxiety) Happiness: 8/20 (very low) Relationship Satisfaction: 10/30 (significant dissatisfaction with her husband) Why this matters: Most therapists never measure how their patients feel. They think they know, but research shows therapist accuracy is around 3-10% on depression, suicidality, anxiety, and anger. Zero percent on suicidal urges. Think about that. Without measurement, you're flying blind. With it, you have an emotional X-ray that shows you exactly where the patient is hurting—and later, exactly how much you've helped (or haven't). TEAM-CBT Pearl: Testing isn't optional. It's the foundation. Measure at the start of every session, and measure again at the end. If you're scared to see the results, that's your ego talking. E = Empathy: The Zero Technique For the first 30-40 minutes, David and I did... nothing. Well, not nothing—we listened. We used the Five Secrets of Effective Communication: Disarming Technique: Finding truth in what Hiral said Thought Empathy: Paraphrasing her thoughts Feeling Empathy: Acknowledging her emotions Inquiry: Asking gentle questions to help her open up Stroking: Conveying warmth and respect But here's the key: we gave her nothing. No advice. No cheerleading. No problem-solving. We call this the Zero Technique—giving the patient nothing is actually giving them everything, because what they want most is to feel understood. The Empathy Pitfall: DO NOT PREACH Early in empathy, it's tempting to: Problem-solve Rescue Educate Advise Cheerlead Help Resist. Your job is to go with your patient to the gates of hell and just be with them there. Checking Our Empathy After about 30 minutes, we asked Hiral to grade us on three dimensions (A, B, C, D, or F): Thought Empathy: How well did we understand her negative thoughts? Feeling Empathy: How well did we acknowledge her emotions? Warmth & Acceptance: Did she feel cared about and accepted? She gave us two A's and hesitated on the third. Why? She didn't feel we could truly understand her cultural context—the joint family system, the rigid in-laws, the isolation from her friends and parents. She felt alone even with us. This was gold. Instead of getting defensive, we leaned in. David shared his own experience living near in-laws with vastly different values. I shared my own struggles with perfectionism and parenting anxiety. Hiral started to cry—not from sadness, but from finally feeling seen. TEAM-CBT Pearl: When you get a failing grade on empathy, celebrate. It's your chance to deepen the connection. Process the failure with your patient, and watch the breakthrough happen. Next week, Part 2, the exciting conclusion of the live session with Hiral!  
• 497: Why Isn't TEAM More Popular? 13.04.2026 55min

  Why Isn't TEAM More Popular? Why Do So Many Therapists Resist TEAM CBT? Featuring Matt May, MD Why has the therapeutic community been so resistant to TEAM? This topic has been a concern to me or many years. To be honest, it isn't new. From the very start of cognitive therapy, when I was first learning it, I began modifying it to make it more dynamic, powerful, and effective. But to be honest, I ran into a small (at the time) of Beck loyalists who branded me as an "outsider," something Beck also did when my book, Feeling Good, began to sell and gain popularity. This saddened and frustrated me, and still does, but it had some great spin-off. On my own, my ideas and approaches grew rapidly, and there was no scarcity of young therapists who wanted to work with me.  Below, you will ready Matt's take on why TEAM CBT has not caught on better, followed by my own thoughts. So read, and enjoy, and feel free to share your own thinking on this topic!  On the live podcast, you will hear our lively discussion with our beloved and brilliant host, Rhonda! Thanks for listening today!  Matt, Rhonda, and David Matt's take: Hi David, I'm excited to discuss this topic!  Also, I agree we would be hard-pressed to cover it in an hour, which I believe is the goal for the podcast. So, why isn't TEAM isn't more popular?  My short answer is that TEAM isn't more popular because many therapists don't want to learn it. Those reasons will vary from one person to another and relate to concepts in the model, itself, like 'process resistance' and 'outcome resistance'. While biological factors, like deficits in cognitive flexibility and neuroplasticity, the 'primacy effect' and age-related changes in the brain, combined with the complexity of the TEAM model, will make it near-impossible for some folks to learn it, these barriers are hard to address with our current technology For the purpose of this conversation, it probably makes more sense to consider the psychological barriers therapists have to adopting a model that is scientifically proven to be superior to other approaches.  As a proponent of TEAM and an instructor, I'd love to know what I'm doing wrong, in presenting the model and how to get more people excited about learning it.  While more research would help us see the problem more clearly, here are some factors that likely play a role: It seems humans have a hard time adopting new truths, regardless of the field being considered. I believe it was Schopenhauer who said all new truths go through three phases on the way to acceptance:  People will ridicule it, violently oppose it, then say they knew it all along as self-evident! One cause of this is something called the 'primacy effect'. People preferentially retain the first version of a story they hear.  If that information is corrected, later, they will continue to believe the first version they heard.  Biological Factors play a role in learning, including genetics, aging, illness and toxic exposure. 'Switching gears', mentally, is more challenging in people with Schizophrenia and their first-degree relatives, for example.  We know that neuroplasticity is greatest in our youth and declines over our lifespan.  Hence the importance of early education and attending to our overall health, habits, nutrition and medical care.       Socioeconomic and Cultural factors certainly play a role.  This is well documented in the book, 'The Emperor's New Drugs', showing how marketing prevailed over science in promoting "antidepressants".  Many therapists in training tell me, 'oh, they wouldn't let me use a measurement tool where I work'.   Lack of 'Critical Thinking'. What people believe often has nothing to do with what is evidence-based or logical.  Many people reject global warming despite the evidence and prefer to believe in conspiracy theories.  We tend to preferentially believe what someone says if we feel a kinship or loyalty to that person or view them as an 'expert'. People might believe RFK Jr. when he says immunizations are dangerous, for example, because he is in their political party and in a position of power, rather than review the science for themselves. Sunk-Cost Fallacy:  People who have gone through training may have a sense that they have invested too much time and money in their education to discard that model and start afresh. Even if we covered this in just a few minutes, we'd still be up against the hardest part of TEAM to learn, Agenda Setting.   Lots of 'Good Reasons' NOT to have open hands, explore topics paradoxically, and reasons this is challenging, technically. So, yeah, we'll have a lot to discuss and I'm looking forward to that! Sincerely, Matt Here is David's list Taking a page out of your book, Matt, our field is filled with so-called "schools" of therapy that function much like cults, most with a narcissistic "leader" at the helm. In a cult, members are required to be absolutely loyal, and to believe in claims the guru makes that have little or no evidence to back them up. For example, most "schools" of therapy claim to know "the" cause of emotional distress, when the causes of depression and other forms of emotional disturbance are still not known. What I have been suggesting is that we get rid of all the schools of therapy and usher in a new era of science-based, data-driven therapy, which would amount to a revolution in our field. This idea, which I feel passionate about, always meets with stiff and hostel opposition / push back. People just don't want to hear it. TEAM integrates high-level empathy and compassion with firm accountability. Give Stanford story with Sunny Choi, and the statement that "Stanford graduate students and faculty cannot be held accountable for doing psychotherapy homework. The need insight-oriented therapy!" This angrily issued statement conveyed, actually, two cult-like (to my thinking) components: First, we KNOW that patients should not be asked to do psychotherapy homework between sessions. Second, we KNOW that "insight-oriented therapy" is the treatment, without ever evaluating them. TEAM focuses on the here and now, and emphasize a "fractal" approach to treatment, where the same distortions and self-defeating beliefs will be embedded in the patient's negative thoughts and feelings every time she or he is upset. So, when you change the present, you have already changed the past. Whereas most therapies have traditionally (and still) focus on the past, thinking they will find the cause of the patient's distress in some pattern or traumatic event. TEAM focuses on rapid change in the here and now, where as many (most?) therapies focus on talk therapy that unfolds slowly, over a period of months, years, or even more. This DOES provide a powerful financial incentive to do "talk therapy," since this drastically provides financial security and reduces the incredible pressure of constantly have to find new patients. TEAM is very challenging to learn. I have taught over 50,000 therapists in the past 35 years or more, through my supervision of graduate students and psychiatric residents, my weekly training group at Stanford, and my workshops, including intensive, around the US and Canada. And one lesson that has emerged is just how difficult it is to learn TEAM. It requires a high level of intelligence and aptitude, and an unusual dedication and commitment. A great many of the most important tools, like Assessment of Resistance, and Externalization of Voices with the CAT, Self-Defense, and the Acceptance Paradox, are extremely difficult to learn and master.  And most give up, and drop out, in favor of some simpler and more formulaic therapy that is easy to learn. TEAM training requires constant role-playing with specific and immediate feedback on your performance, which includes bot a letter grade (A, B, C, etc.) as well as what you did that was effective, and where you fell short and might need to fine-tune your technique with frequent role reversals, always with feedback. This means lots of criticism along the way, which many (most?) therapists do not like. And although we repeatedly emphasize the philosophy of "joyous failure," and "learning through failure," most people do not buy it emotionally. We all want success and compliments! And NOT the "great death" of the self." The "great death" permeates every phase of the T E A M process. At the T = Testing, you will nearly always learn that your perceptions of your patients feel, and how they feel about you, are way off base. This is critically important, but painful for most, as it is a direct body blow to our "need" to be in the role of "expert." Unlike most other forms of therapy, we require therapists to measure patients' feelings, "in the here and now," at the start and end of every therapy session, using brief, highly reliable scales that assess feelings of depression, suicidal urges, anxiety, anger, and also happiness, as well as relationship satisfaction or discord. These scales function like an "emotional X-ray machine," allowing therapists for the first time to see exactly how effective or ineffective you were in every therapy session. Can you take it? On the positive side, this information will allow you to fine tune the therapy and learn from all of your patients every day. On the negative side, you may not want to have to "see" your failures before your eyes at every session with every patient. David: Tell the story of Tuesday group patient who proudly showed me her depression (and other scores) over the previous year with one of her patients. . . But there was absolutely no improvement in any scale. This was shocking and it made me very sad. My goal is to get dramatic changes within a single session. This "great death" continues during the E phase. TEAM therapists are required to ask "What's my grade on empathy" during the session, and also patients fill out the Empathy Scale and other scales on the "Patient's Evaluation of Therapy Session" right after the session. These scales are set up to make therapist failure common, almost universal at first. A warm and curious dialogue about where the therapist went wrong can revolutionize the therapy and deepen the relationship—quickly. But at what cost to the fragile ego of the insecure shrink? The "great death" continues with A = Paradoxical Agenda Setting. You give up your role as the "expert:" or "helper" or "rescuer," which many therapist refuse to do, and instead "become" the patient's subconscious resistance, arguing, with compassion and logic, that there are many GOOD reasons NOT to change. This freaks therapists out! The "great death" continues with the M = Methods phase of the session. I have developed roughly 140 methods to help people challenge distorted negative thoughts and self-defeating beliefs, and have always taught that no one method will work for everyone who's depressed and anxious. So you will have to try many methods, using the Recovery Circle, to find the one that works for each patient. But these methods are challenging to learn, and most therapists don't seem to have the intelligence, aptitude, or commitment to learning how to use them. Many of the methods and insights of TEAM or subtle nuances that many therapists do not "get" or perhaps do not want to "get." Example, the ACT training group, where someone held up the Feeling Good book and said, "We do not want THIS!" They falsely believed that "leaning into" your feelings is always the answer, and wrong believed that TEAM tried to make people happy all the time—called Toxic Positivity—whereas nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, I mentioned healthy negative feelings as early as, I think, Chapter 3 in Feeling Good, "Sadness is Not Depression," where I told the story of an elderly man who died on the Stanford inpatient medical service one evening when I was a medical student. Much of what I teach is shocking and at odds with what people are taught in graduate school. For example, the idea that most people with depression and anxiety—NOT everybody!—can be effectively treated in a single, extended therapy session. Curses! That sounds horrible! And even worse-sounding is the idea that change typically happens suddenly, at the very moment patients stop believing their distorted thoughts. Of course, since most therapists have not seen these phenomena, due perhaps to not having the skill, they insist instead that David is some type of fool, liar, or con artis. Okee Dokee! People—therapists and patients alike—do not "get" a great many of the key ideas in TEAM. For example, let's say the socially anxious patient totally believes the thought, "I shouldn't be so screwed up!" the necessary and sufficient conditions for emotional change. The necessary condition: The Positive Thought (PT) must be 100% true. Rationalizations and half-truths have never helped anybody. The sufficient condition: The PT must drastically reduce your belief in the negative thought. And that's when your negative thoughts will suddenly change. There is even more of what I teach is shocking and at odds with what people believe. For example, 2,000 years ago Epictetus stated they key premise of all the cognitive therapies: "People are disturbed, not by things, or events, but by the views they have of them". And recently, our research team has provided proof of this for the first time, in a study of nearly 7,000 users of our Feeling Great app, using sophisticated statistical modeling techniques. So, the three tenants of cognitive therapies, including TEAM, are: First, you FEEL the way you THINK. In other words, all of your positive and negative feelings result from your thoughts in the here-and-now. Second, depression and anxiety are the world's oldest cons. In other words, your negative thoughts, like "I'm not as good as I should be," or "I'm a hopeless case,"—will be loaded with many of the ten cognitive distortions and are extremely misleading—but you don't realize this when you're upset. You will believe these thoughts with all your heart and feel CERTAIN that they are 100% true. Third, you can CHANGE the way you FEEL. But lots of people will won't have it. They keep insisting on theories that simply aren't true—that emotions cause thoughts, for example—and on methods that may have little or no "punch" above and beyond the placebo effect. Story of Tuesday group student who was scolded in her graduate school counseling program for using the words "thought" or cognition during a therapy session. She was told ONLY to focus on feelings. Many people—therapists and patients alike—strongly believe that therapist empathy is THE key to healing. I have developed many powerful empathy tracking and training methods, but our clinical experience and research has shown, over and over, that therapist empathy is NOT the key to healing. They keys involve using TEAM systematically, and the rapid healing happens during the A and M for the most part. But those are the hard parts! Other problems include the idea that we can convert normal human emotional distress into a series of "mental disorders" that are listed in the DSM, the "bible" of the American Psychiatric Association. In TEAM, we consider each patient's patterns of suffering at the start of therapy, quickly and easily screened by the EASY Diagnostic System, but monitor therapy and patient progress with simple tools that measure feelings, like depression, anxiety, anger, and more. But this is an argument for another day. There's a lot more issues, too. Have I, David, contributed to the resistance to TEAM? Absolutely I have. I plead guilty as accused, and I'm proud of it. I'm totally aware that people—maybe even you— get turned off by criticism, and naturally recoil to protect your "in group," as Matt so clearly pointed out, and maintain loyalty to your "leader," whether it's Freud, Jung, Beck, Hayes, Rogers, or whoever. People are more emotional than rational, and people can be intentionally cruel and deceptive, too, all in the name of what they believe. We see that in our politics these days too. People believe things that are totally false, and wildly implausible, because the group or leader says it's true, it's the way things are. I'm a strong believer that science and truth will win out in the long run. Is this inevitable? I'm not totally confident, and have my doubts, but I am also filled with hope, and look to a future with more therapists like our beloved Matt May, MD and others who have dared to venture in a radically new direction, much like the early astronomers like Galileo and Copernicus who dared to challenge the superstitious teachings of the Catholic church. Those brave and brilliant early souls said, "things are NOT the way you think!" And they used data and mathematical modeling to prove their points. But there were a hundreds years of intimidation and suffering until people finally began to catch on to the then-ridiculous and outrageous ideas that the sun does NOT actually revolve around the earth, and that the earth is NOT the center of the universe. Those NOTS changed history. Can it happen again in the fields of psychiatry and psychotherapy? I hope so, and I've been giving my all, in my teaching, research, clinical work and writing, to make this happen. Sadly, I've fallen far short of my dream, but I'm thankful every day for what I've got, and the wonderful colleagues I'm privileged to know and love. Warmly, David, Matt and Rhonda
• 496: Should Therapists Express Their Feelings? Freud's Huge Error! Featuring Matt May, MD 06.04.2026 36min

  Should Therapists Express Their Feelings? Freud's Huge Error! Featuring Matt May, MD Today we touch base on a really important and highly controversial question: Should therapists express their feelings? Or remain blank slates, as Freud so strongly recommended. We begin with a scholarly and really interesting (oxymoron?) piece that Matt wrote about Freud's own fear of sharing his feelings, and how that led to the huge mistake called psychoanalysis. At the end of this piece, I will briefly summarize the podcast. Matt's piece here Matt began by describing a fascinating case of a woman who had a functional neurological disorder. She appeared, in other words, to be unable to walk, but her walking problem was entirely caused by her mind. Often this type of problem is due to the "Hidden Emotion" phenomenon, where the patient is hiding some powerful feeling—from themselves and others—and then that feeling comes out indirectly, as some form of anxiety (very common) or even as a neurological problem, such as apparent paralysis in a limb. Matt, can you briefly summarize your thinking on how her symptoms may have been due to suppressed anger? During the session, the concept of anger came up, and the husband became agitated, and started pounding angrily on the desk. Clearly, of course, his wife was also terrified of him, one of the key dynamics in their dysfunctional marriage. Matt was scared, and decided to say, "I feel scared right now." The man calmed down instantly. She, too, had been afraid of expressing her feelings. Matt and Rhonda talked about effective and ineffective ways of expressing your feelings. Like everything else in the universe, "I Feel" statements are a two-edged sword. What Matt said—"I feel scared"—was a human statement of vulnerability that did not threaten this many in any way. Matt's humanness allowed him to lower his defenses and open up as well. But saying, "I feel controlled," is actually a hidden criticism of the other person, and it will nearly always trigger more aggression and anger. They also discussed setting boundaries, another highly controversial topic, because much of the time, when therapists (or anyone) attempt to set boundaries, it comes across as an attempt to control the other person, to tell them what they can and cannot do, and that has a high probability of triggering more anger, and is an invitation to violate the annoying "limit" you are trying to set. Matt described a common and frustrating dynamic: a woman who kept "forgetting" to do her psychotherapy homework, and instead kept chasing a man who treated her badly. Of course, her behavior caused him to become even more aggressive and abusive. Matt: what was your point here? I didn't get it in my notes. Any help appreciated! You can be brief, as many words tends to intimidate me. In contrast, a statement like "I'm feeling hurt right now," is vastly less powerful, since it is simply a gentle, non-aggressive way, of showing how you feel. But by the same token, it is often vastly more powerful than attempts to set limits. These are complicated topics, easily misunderstood. For more information, check out my book Feeling Good Together. Warmly, David, Rhonda and Matt
• Exciting All-New Workshop on Core Beliefs (for Therapists) 31.03.2026 4min

  Hello! Dr. Jill Levitt and I have an amazing full-day CE workshop on changing core beliefs coming up in a few weeks. If you've ever struggled with Perfectionism, Perceived Perfectionism, or the Love, Achievement, or Approval Addictions, you're going to love this all-new workshop called The Deeper Dimension in CBT. Sign up now at CBT-Workshop.com. 📅 Friday, April 24, 2026 🕛 8:30 AM – 4:30 PM PT CE Workshop for Therapists $195 Register Here: CBT-Workshop.com This workshop will include new teaching and treatment techniques, and we'll go much further than any previous presentations on Core Beliefs. Learning therapy is much like learning to ride a bicycle. You've got to get on and ride. Book learning won't help. That's why you'll work through your own Self-Defeating Beliefs during this highly interactive workshop. As you change, the tools for helping your clients will become crystal clear. We'll also answer the question: where do you go next once you decide to give up your Self-Defeating Beliefs? You'll walk away from this amazing workshop with concrete, easy-to-use tools you can apply in your very next therapy session and in your life as well. You'll also experience a profound and exciting shift in your personal philosophy.  
• 495: Stop Helping! Here's How. Featuring Thai-An Truong on Codependency 30.03.2026 1h 14min

  #495 Stop Helping! Here's How. Featuring Thai-An Truong on Codependency Thai-An Truong, LPC, LADC is a Certified TEAM-CBT Trainer, Level 5 and loves sharing tools and processes to help other therapists feel more confident, effective, and joyful in their work with their clients. In her private practice in Oklahoma, she is passionate about helping people heal from past trauma and OCD. She also has a special interest in helping her clients improve their relationships and overall connection with their partners and loved ones. We often hear the word, co-dependency thrown around. Today's podcast will be unique: you'll hear a totally brilliant and lucid explanation of how to treat it within the TEAM CBT model. It will be explained and illustrated with role-playing demonstrations by Rhonda and Thai-An. These demonstrations are fantastic! You'll love them! But let's start with what codependency is. I'll give you my take on it first, as my understanding has been based on observation. I see it as the compulsive urge to help another person who appears to be hurting or struggling. Well, that's nothing wrong with that, for sure! But where it gets yucky is where there is an ongoing pattern of helping, followed by stuckness on the part of the person who is hurting, ending up with both parties feeling frustrated and angry. We've talked about this general topic a great deal on the show, and in fact, TEAM CBT emerged as a radical alternative to the compulsive, codependent "helping" we often see in the community of mental health professionals. And we've seen this too, among parents and their children. Rhonda and I have done many podcasts on the topic of "How to Help and How NOT to Help," (for example, #164: https://feelinggood.com/2019/10/28/164-how-to-help-and-how-not-to-help/). And we've done many, including a great recent podcast with Dr. Taylor Chesney, on how parents can talk to teens and children without trying to control or scold them—by forming a warm and respectful relationship, using the Five Secrets. According to a Google search, codependency involves "excessive emotional or psychological reliance on a partner, often characterized by neglecting one's own needs. The four main types of codependency are the Caretaker, Enabler, Controller, and Adjuster. These roles represent different ways individuals, often with low self-esteem, sacrifice their well-being to manage relationships." To get things started, Rhonda and Thai-An discuss he various definitions and meanings of co-dependency. Thai-An described an attractive woman she treated who ended up with an alcoholic man who gave her very little in terms of healthy emotional support or love. But she told herself, "He's the only one who's there for me. , , I won't be able to find anyone else." There's also a strong dimension of "I NEED to fix this person," as opposed to asking if they need help, and deciding whether you can actually meet their need. They also pointed out, with example, that "throwing help at people" (as I call it) actually forces them to resist. They talked about the shame involved in codependency, and then illustrated Option B: TEAM -CBT, where empathy is always a crucially important first step. Then you can move to the Triple Paradox, to help the codependent patient illuminate three crucial motivational pieces: Column 1: The positive rewards of trying to "help" this person. Column 2: The downside of changing and giving up this pattern. Column 3: What your codependency shows about you and your core values as a human being that's positive and awesome. Then after listing 20 to 30 or more powerful reasons to continue acting in a codependent manner, you can ask them if it's working for them, or if they can think of any reasons to change. So, right away, you are modeling a totally anti-codependent way of "helping" your codependent patient. Only then, if the patient can convince you that they really do want help, Thai-An and Rhonda modeled some kick-ass M = Methods that can be incredibly helpful, including, but not at all limited to: The co-dependency Double Standard Technique. The role play with Rhonda and Thai-An was eye-opening and jaw-dropping! The Devil's Advocate Technique when tempted to "help." The Decision-Making Tool The Externalization of Voices And many more. I want to thank you, Thai-An, and you, Rhonda, for a truly phenomenal podcast today. Awesome work! From Rhonda:  Speaking for me and Thai-An, it was our pleasure and honor to be on the podcast with you David!  And always a pleasure to learn with the brilliant Thai-An, one of the most phenomenal teachers and trainers in the TEAM community.
• 494: I'm boring on dating apps. Help! How can I balance TEAM with Life? Do relapses come from out of the blue? 23.03.2026 41min

  What if the old techniques don't work now? What can I do if I'm boring on dating apps? How do I balance TEAM CBT with Life? Do relapses come from out of the blue? Carlos continues with his question(s) first addressed on last week's podcast. He'd recovered from depression using TEAM CBT, but had a question about how to challenge his negative thoughts during a relapse, as well as how to balance TEAM CBT with life. Plus a dating question from a man who's never had a date! Today's questions begin here. Should I use a brand-new CBT technique to help me overcome my current negative thoughts? I've been using my previous solutions (Exposure Therapy and Daily Mood Log) however, they don't seem to help out as much as they used to. How do I balance Team CBT and life? I've been having a difficult time finding the right balance between Therapy and Life. Whenever I strictly do therapy, I feel good, but then feel sad that I sacrifice other activities in order to do the therapy. Inversely, whenever I do activities (while only occasionally doing therapy), I feel conned by my anxiety and feel as if I can't enjoy doing my activities. Can you relapse despite having no apparent issues in life? I'm currently on Christmas break, without much pressure to find a job. Yet despite this, I'm feeling more anxious right now than I was in university! How is this possible? Is there perhaps a hidden emotion or desire that I'm not expressing? Regardless of how negative I feel right now, I'm doing my absolute best to stay positive and keep working on myself with Team CBT. I'm looking forward to resolving my anxiety with the help of your awesome tools! It was an honor speaking with you, thank you for reading! -Carlos David's Answer Great question, and I'll give you a (hopefully) great answer on the podcast! But here's the quickie answer. Focus on one specific moment when you'd like to be feeling happier, or when you need help to become the person you want to be. Then use a Daily Mood Log, Habit / Addiction Log (HAL), or Relationship Journal, depending on what's needed. This is the exact same fractal concept we use in all of TEAM CBT! Warmly, david   I am overly sincere and boring on dating apps. What can I do to correct this? Michael writes: Hi Dr burns  I am 30 and never dated anyone. Whenever I start chatting on dating apps I seem very boring or sincere person how can I talk to someone in this? Regards, Michael (disguised name)
• 493: Yikes! What If I Relapse? 16.03.2026 1h 3min

  What can I do if I relapse? Good Morning Dr. Burns, I will make this email quick, as I'm sure you have several other emails to read through. First off, thank you so much for your research and contributions to TEAM CBT! My mother introduced me to this form of therapy in 2022, and it has been a big help in overcoming my extremely painful perfectionism anxiety. Unfortunately, after graduating from university, I've begun relapsing once again. As such, I would like to ask a few things Carlos: (His remaining questions will be answered on Podcast 494.) Is it harder to get out of a relapse than the first time? I feel as if my relapse has been a lot trickier to get out of, despite the fact I have more tools and techniques. David's response. This depends entirely on whether you've done Relapse Prevention Training to prepare for relapses ahead of time. You can read all about it in the last chapter of my most recent book, Feeling Great. You can also learn about RPT on a number of podcasts, and even hear me doing it live with many individuals at the end of their personal work. Here are two examples randomly chosen among dozens I have published. 427: https://feelinggood.com/2024/12/16/426-ask-david-dreading-the-day-solving-mother-daughter-problems-romance-and-more/ 389: https://feelinggood.com/2024/03/25/389-the-story-of-amy-part-2-of-2/ And you'll a great many more if you look. Just use the search function on my website and you'll find a wealth of podcasts on RPT. Short answer: If you HAVE recovered and done RPT (takes 30 minutes) it will usually be much easier for you to smash your negative thought(s), using the same methods that helped you the first time. If you HAVEN'T recovered and done RPT, it may be much more challenging. Thanks for the important question, Carlos!
• Feel Better Today: A Powerful App For You 11.03.2026 3min

  Download the incredible Feeling Great app today for FREE at FeelingGreat.com! This is my $99 GIFT for you.  - Dr. David Burns
• 492: Meet the Fantastic—and Controversial—Dr. David Healy 09.03.2026 1h 27min

  Meet the Fantastic—and Controversial—Dr. David Healy Psychiatric Drug Companies-- What Are They NOT Telling Us? Today, we are thrilled to interview the famed and courageous Dr. David Healy. I have admired his work for many years, but never imagined I'd have the chance to meet him and chat with him. First things first. You may know Dr. David Healy for some of his highly controversial books, like "The Antidepressant Era," "Let Them Eat Prozac," and "Pharmageddon." But who is he, really? According to AI, Dr. David Healy is a prominent Welsh psychiatrist, psychopharmacologist, and critic of the pharmaceutical industry known for his research on antidepressants, their links to suicide, and exposing industry practices like ghostwriting and disease-mongering, operating through initiatives like RxISK.org to promote drug safety. He has a long history of challenging Big Pharma, facing academic backlash (like losing a University of Toronto post) for his views, and serving as an expert witness in legal cases involving psychotropic drugs, advocating for greater transparency and patient safety.  Healy initially worked with pharmaceutical companies, gaining firsthand knowledge of how SSRIs were marketed despite their trial weaknesses, focusing on the oversimplified serotonin hypothesis. He then became a vocal critic, highlighting issues like ghostwriting articles and manipulating academic opinion to sell drugs, leading to conflicts with industry-funded institutions. He founded RxISK.org, a platform for patients to report adverse drug reactions, aiming to make medicines safer. His strong stance (on research linking SSRI antidepressants to increased suicidal thoughts and urges) led to intense and corrosive controversy, including losing a professorship at the University of Toronto (though later settled as a visiting role) and harassment, noted here and here. In recent years, he has acted as an expert witness in cases involving drug-related suicides and homicides, bringing issues to regulators.  In essence, Dr. David Healy is a significant, often controversial, figure dedicated to drug safety, academic integrity, and patient awareness in psychiatry, challenging established narratives and industry power.  Taking a deeper dive, AI has added this critically important information: David Healy has discussed numerous examples of conflicts of interest that mainly involve the influence of the pharmaceutical industry on medical research, publication, and practice.  Key examples he has highlighted include: Ghostwriting of Articles: Pharmaceutical companies hire medical communication firms to draft research articles or reviews, and then get prominent academics or clinicians to put their names on the papers as the sole or primary authors, a practice known as ghostwriting. The named authors often have little to no involvement in the actual research or writing. Hiding or Misrepresenting Data: Drug companies have concealed unfavorable data or miscoded raw data on drug risks, such as the link between antidepressants and suicidal acts. This manipulation can make a drug appear safer or more effective than it actually is. Biased Clinical Trial Design: Healy notes instances where clinical trials are designed with "tricks," such as using inadequate or excessive doses of comparison medications to make the company's own drug look superior. Marketing-Driven Education: A large portion of continuing medical education (CME) classes for doctors are sponsored by industry. Healy argues this leads to a bias in the information presented to doctors, with an emphasis on the benefits of brand-name drugs rather than an objective assessment of all treatment options. Gifts and Payments to Physicians: Drug companies spend billions annually on marketing directed at doctors, including free samples, sales visits, and small non-educational gifts or lunches. Healy points out that while many doctors believe these gifts don't affect their own prescribing, studies show they influence prescribing patterns and create subtle biases. Industry Influence on Academia: Healy's own experience with a job offer being rescinded at the University of Toronto, which had received a large donation from a drug company (Eli Lilly), is a prominent case he uses to illustrate how industry funding can infringe upon academic freedom and stifle critical research. "Disease Mongering": Healy argues that the pharmaceutical industry often engages in "disease mongering," marketing conditions to the public and physicians to create a market for their products rather than simply addressing genuine medical needs.  So that hopefully gives you some idea of the scope of his work, and his vision of transparency and integrity in the reporting one the effectiveness and risks of psychotropic medications. In our conversation today, he emphasized the importance of listening to patients who describe side effects of medications, such as SSRIs, in described the efforts of Big Pharma to suppress such complaints, giving psychiatrists "talking points" to reassure and quiet concerned patients. In general, a main focus of his career has been to challenge and confront the efforts of drug companies to suppress negative information about their products and troublesome and dangerous side effects. He said that one of the rationales the drug companies use is to say that disseminating that type of information will discourage many potential patients from using their products, and therefore miss out on the potential benefits of the medications. In fact, they have a name for this, "treatment hesitancy," and discourage open discussion of negative effects for this reason. I asked Dr. Healy if he's experienced direct negative pushback from drug companies, and he gave a surprising answer—he said no, that the major pushback he's gotten has actually been from colleagues—psychiatrists who have bought the party line disseminated by the drug manufactures. For example, when he gave his famous talk at the University of Toronto on the increase in suicidal urges associated with SSRI antidepressants, a famous psychopharmacologist, Dr. Charlie Nemeroff, got him fired. Here's the story on Dr. Nemeroff, According to AI: In the late 2000s, Nemeroff faced investigations and sanctions from Emory University for failing to disclose significant speaking and consulting fees from pharmaceutical companies like GlaxoSmithKline, raising questions about research integrity and conflicts of interest, notes The BMJ and The New York Times.  Although the antidepressant effects of SSRIs are controversial and hotly debated, their effects on the nervous system are not. Dr. Healy's research indicates that they have a suppression effect on the nervous system, which dulls the senses, and this can happen within 1 to 2 days. One of the more troublesome of these effects is called "genital numbing," which affects 9 out of 10  people talking SSRIs. This can result in difficulties with sexual arousal and greatly delayed orgasm, and apparently these effects can persist long after drug discontinuation. He said that these sensory effects can develop quickly, within a day or two of starting the medications. Even more chilling, he said that the problem can actually get worse when you discontinue the medication, and can sometimes persist for life. In addition, quite a few individuals have "bad trips" on SSRIs, although a minority clearly have "good trips." He said the best thing to do for a bad trip is to take the patient off of the medication immediately—and NOT increase the dose. He confirmed my impression that a common error with all antidepressants is to increase the dose—which simply increases the side effects. In addition to the genital numbing described above, he said the SSRIs cause "emotional numbing," which means a decreased capacity for joy as well as sorrow. One of the main activities in David Healy's life has been listening to patients, rather than discounting their complaints when they describe negative effects of medications. When asked about what alternatives to drugs he might recommend to someone struggling with depression, he said that sometimes, just doing nothing will be helpful, since most mood problems clear up spontaneously in 12 to 14 weeks. He said that most are simply human problems, not "mental disorders," but real-life problems, like relationship conflicts or social issues. Although we did not discuss it extensively on the show, I would point out that skillful, drug-free therapy with TEAM CBT can sometimes help as well, and that recent research has confirmed rapid often dramatic mood improvements with individuals using the Feeling Great app, which has been entirely free to anyone since the summer of 2025.  Finally, we do not advise anyone to discontinue or modify the dosages of any medications you have been prescribed without consultation with your doctor. The information in the Feeling Good podcast is of a strictly educational nature, and is not intended as treatment or medical advice. We thank you for listening to today's shocking but incredibly important dialogue with one of the pioneers and champions of greater ethical integrity and transparency in the psychiatric profession. It is sad, indeed, that we don't have more visionary critical thinkers like Dr. David Healy! David (H), Rhonda, and David (B)
• 491:Ask David: Can Introverts be Helped? How Can I Enhance Happiness? 02.03.2026 58min

  Ask David, #491, featuring our beloved Dr. Matthew May. Can Introverts be helped? How can we enhance our happiness? What's the best movie to watch if your father rejected you? How can I identify my feelings? The answers to the first two questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Today's Questions Anonymous asks: Can an introvert become more extroverted? Or are these personality traits "fixed" and unchanging? Seve asks: I know that TEAM can be super helpful for negative thoughts and feelings, but what are the best tools to enhance happiness and become the person we want to be? I have a patient whose father rejected her when she was young. What would be a good movie that I could recommend for her? Anonymous asks: I don't know how to identify my feelings. Can you help?   Today's Answers Question #1 Anonymous asks: Can an introvert become more extroverted? Or are these personality traits "fixed" and unchanging? Dear Dr. Burns, I hope this message finds you well. I would like to ask you a question regarding personality traits. Some articles suggest that introversion and extraversion are relatively stable characteristics—meaning that an introverted person cannot truly become more extroverted, and vice versa (or at least not to a great extent). They also propose that introverts tend to lose energy in social situations and recharge when alone, whereas extroverts gain energy from social interaction. I'm very curious to know your thoughts on this topic. Do you believe an introverted person can become more extroverted? And in your view, is an introvert's need for solitude more of a true "need" or a "want"? Thank you very much for your time and for the inspiration your work has provided to so many of us. Warm regards, Anonymous David's reply If you like, I can make this an Ask David question for an upcoming podcast! It's a cool question and raises many questions: Do "personalities" even "exist?" Is this like the question, "Do we have a self?" It also focuses on the issue of whether we can change and grow, or whether there is some invisible barrier beyond which we can grow any further, due to some inherent "limit" due to our "personality type." Best, david   Question #2 Dr. Dear David: I know first-hand how helpful TEAM CBT can be to address negative thoughts and emotions but our path to a happier life and to the person we want to be never really ends.  Are there any other tools that Dr. David may have come across and can suggest for someone's growth? Thank you, Steve David's Answer Great question, and I'll give you a (hopefully) great answer on the podcast! But here's the quickie answer. Focus on one specific moment when you'd like to be feeling happier, or when you need help on become the person you want to be, and then use a Daily Mood Log, Habit / Addiction Log (HAL), or Relationship Journal, depending on what's needed. This is the exact same fractal concept we use in all of TEAM CBT! Warmly, david   Question #3 Hi podcast crew: I have a patient whose father rejected her when she was young. What would be a really good movie to recommend do her? David's Answer Sadly, I lost my notes from this podcast, but in general David and Matt found this question somewhat offensive, as it suggests you can chase a problem (father rejected me) with a method, in this case recommending a good movie. We, instead, would recommend TEAM CBT, which is real therapy, and not gimmicks. Movies can be rewarding, but that's not the same as effective therapy! Rhonda asked David and Matt what was wrong with recommending a movie in the same way we recommend books for clients to read.   Have a listen to hear their response.   Question #4 Anonymous asks: I don't know how to identify my feelings. Can you help? David's Answer Rhonda said one of her clients could not identify their feelings, unless they have the Feelings Chart in front of them.   David thought that anyone could identify their feelings and explained. One simple way is to identify a specific moment when you were upset and wanting help. Think about what was going on, who wee you with, where were you, etc. Then review the Feeling Words charts, which I will link to, to see how many, and which ones, resonate with how you were feeling at that time, or how you may still be feeling. Feeling Words Chart with Five Secrets, v 2 Another way is to draw a Stick Figure of yourself, and put a bubble above its head. Then imagine the Stick Figure is upset and put the Stick Figure's negative thoughts and feelings in the bubble. They don't have to be your feelings and thoughts, just make some up. Do it now—on paper! DON'T just think about it. That never works! Have you done it yet? No? That's what I suspected. If you ever DO want the answer to your question, so the stick figure on paper and then write me back. Thanks! Finally, you can listen to the podcast on "I Feel" Statements, and spend one week telling five people a day how you feel, using words from the Feeling Words Chart. For example, when checking groceries you could tell the clerk, "I'm feeling happy because we have such beautiful weather today." Or, "I'm feeling really frustrated with politics this morning!" Or whatever.  Thanks for listening today! Matt, Rhonda, and David
• 490: Dr. Taylor Chesney on Sexting, Bullying, and Social Media 23.02.2026 1h 7min

  Sexting, Bullying, and Social Media-- A Compassionate, Practical Guide for Parents of Teens Today, we welcome back one of our favorite guests, Taylor Chesney, director of the Feeling Good Institute in New York City. Taylor specializes in TEAM-CBT with children and adolescents and brings a rare combination of clinical expertise and real-life wisdom as the mother of four. Parents everywhere are worried about social media, sexting, porn, bullying, and the fear that their kids are doing "who knows what" behind closed doors. In this episode, Taylor offers a refreshing and deeply practical message: the solution isn't better apps, stricter rules, or surveillance—it's connection. Why Blaming Technology Misses the Point Teen brains are still developing. They're impulsive, thrill-seeking, and wired for belonging and validation. Give teens instant access to peers and social media, and mistakes are inevitable. Taylor emphasizes that technology itself isn't good or bad—it amplifies what's already happening in a teen's emotional world. The real question isn't how to eliminate technology, but how parents can guide kids in using it safely and thoughtfully. The Real Protective Factor: Communication Parents often ask, "What app should I install?" or "How do I stop this?" Taylor suggests these questions lead to dead ends. What truly protects teens is a relationship where they feel: understood rather than judged supported rather than interrogated safe coming to parents after a mistake As Taylor explains, for most teens it's not if they'll face a difficult online situation—it's when. The goal is to make sure they come to you when it happens. How to Talk So Teens Will Open Up Using the Five Secrets of Effective Communication, especially the Disarming Technique, parents can shift from policing to coaching. Instead of: "Why were you on your phone?" Try: "Help me understand what was going on for you." This approach reduces secrecy and increases trust. Porn, Sexting, and Shame Discovering porn or sexting can trigger panic and anger in parents—but shaming almost always backfires. Taylor suggests responding with curiosity and empathy: "What was that like for you?" "What do you understand about the difference between porn and real intimacy?" Sexting often begins innocently—seeking connection, validation, or closeness—but once an image is sent, control is lost. Open conversations help teens think ahead without feeling judged or controlled. Parents can also teach teens simple, self-respecting responses like: "I care about you, but I don't need to send that to prove it." Bullying and Online Drama Online bullying mirrors real-life dynamics—but faster, more public, and more permanent. Taylor shares concrete skills teens can use: Pause before responding Don't engage when emotions are high Exit or mute toxic chats Involve an adult early Helpful phrases teens can practice include: "This chat is getting mean—I'm stepping out." "I'm not comfortable with this." "Let's take a break." The Big Takeaway Mistakes—by teens and parents—are inevitable. The real danger isn't errors; it's secrecy. When kids know they can come to their parents without fear of shame or punishment, they make better decisions and recover more quickly when things go wrong. As Taylor puts it: "The kids with the best relationships with their parents make the best decisions." Thanks for listening, and heartfelt thanks to Taylor for this wise, compassionate, and deeply reassuring conversation. — David, Rhonda, and Taylor