Sleeping Barber - A Marketing Podcast

Episode

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  SBP 229: The PostPod - Lessons from Pats McDonald. AI Won't Decide the Future of Marketing. We Will. 20.08.2026 26mnt

  AI is going to take our jobs. AI will commoditize creativity. AI will make strategy worse.But AI isn't making those decisions. We are.In this PostPod, Marc and V reflect on their conversation with Pats McDonald, Chief Strategy Officer at dentsu, and explore one of the most important ideas emerging from the AI conversation: human agency still matters.They discuss why AI may eliminate barriers without eliminating expertise, how LLMs naturally pull marketers toward the average, the danger of settling for “strategy-ish,” and why faster answers don't necessarily produce better thinking.The conversation also explores what AI means for specialists and generalists, how marketing organizations may need to evolve, and why companies may eventually need to onboard their AI systems with the same strategic frameworks, principles and ways of working they use to onboard their people.Because the biggest question may no longer be what AI can do.It's what we're going to choose to let it do.Chapters: 00:00 Stop Blaming AI00:46 Reflecting on Pats McDonald02:02 AI, Jobs and Human Agency03:00 AI Is Removing Barriers to Entry05:13 Why Expertise Still Matters06:36 Design for Difference, Not Sameness09:27 The Danger of “Strategy-ish”11:24 When AI Becomes “Good Enough”13:53 Do We Still Need Specialists?14:58 The Marketer of the Future16:16 Why AI Still Needs Human Expertise17:07 Turning Ideas Into Reality Faster20:16 Human Agency Still Matters20:27 AI and Strategic Drift21:30 Keeping AI Inside the Strategic Framework24:00 Should Companies Onboard Their AI?26:29 Final Thoughts
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  SBP 228: Interview - AI Won't Decide the Future of Marketing. We Will. With Pats McDonald. 18.08.2026 28mnt

  What if the biggest mistake we're making with AI is the way we talk about it?Pats McDonald, Chief Strategy Officer at Dentsu Creative, joins the Sleeping Barber Podcast to challenge one of the dominant narratives surrounding artificial intelligence: that AI itself is determining what comes next.Her argument is simple: AI doesn't make these choices. People do.We explore what that means for marketers, strategists and leaders as AI becomes embedded in everyday marketing practice.Pats explains why AI's greatest opportunity isn't simply doing more with less, but enabling ideas that previously weren't possible. We discuss the danger of “strategy-ish”—plausible, polished strategic thinking that never gets somewhere genuinely distinctive—and why strategists should use AI to identify category conventions so they can deliberately break away from them.We also tackle one of the biggest organizational questions surrounding AI: if technology increasingly performs the work traditionally given to junior marketers, how do we develop the next generation of senior talent?Plus:Why strategists need to understand both consumers and algorithmsWhy curiosity may become more valuable than having all the answersHow AI can expose category clichés and strategic blind spotsWhy data hygiene and fact-checking become even more importantHow AI could become institutional memory for brandsWhy marketers should design for difference rather than scale samenessWhat responsible AI leadership actually looks likeUltimately, Pats leaves us with a powerful distinction:Stop saying “AI will.” Start asking what people, enabled by AI, will choose to do.Chapters:00:00 - Introduction01:03 - Stop Saying “AI Will”02:58 - How AI Is Changing Strategy05:40 - Doing What Wasn't Possible Before06:50 - What Happens to Junior Talent?08:35 - Specialists vs. Generalists11:35 - Curiosity as a Strategic Skill13:45 - Can AI Accelerate Curiosity?15:10 - Why Leaders Must Keep Learning16:50 - The Danger of “Strategy-ish”18:10 - Designing for Difference, Not Sameness19:45 - AI, Bias and Strategic Blind Spots21:05 - Why AI Still Needs Fact-Checkers22:45 - Can AI Prevent Strategic Drift?24:15 - AI as Institutional Brand Memory25:55 - Great Examples of AI in Creativity27:35 - AI Becomes Part of the Creative Toolkit28:50 - Human Agency and the Future of AI30:05 - Stop Saying “AI Will”
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  SBP 227: The Sharp Cut - Brand Does Not Belong to Marketing 13.08.2026 1j 7mnt

  Ask ten marketers to define brand and you get ten answers. Ask them who owns it and you get one: marketing. Marc and V think that second answer is the problem.In this reboot of episode 4, they work through three questions with no guest and no script. What is brand? Marty Neumeier calls it the gut feeling people have about you. Roger Martin calls it generating confidence. Both descriptions point at things the promotion team does not control.Who owns it? V argues brand needs its own team, possibly reporting to the CEO, because the frontline, the packaging, the product roadmap and the customer service queue all write the brand whether marketing likes it or not. Marc pushes back on where the line sits, and lands on why an ad only ever amplifies the truth.Why is any of it useful? This is where it gets uncomfortable. NPS goes up when you lose customers. Last click hands the credit to the channel that was standing closest to the till. Share of search actually predicts something. And the retention economics everyone repeats turns out to be a thought experiment nobody checked.Recorded in 2021. Republished because the org chart problem has not moved.
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  SBP 226: The Barber's Brief - The AI Efficiency Trap: When Doing More With Less Backfires 11.08.2026 29mnt

  What happens when AI makes marketing more efficient, but every dollar saved gets taken out of the marketing budget?Welcome back to the Barber’s Brief, where we unpack the marketing stories, ideas and creative work that caught our attention.This week, we start with what might be one of the unintended consequences of the AI revolution: the efficiency spiral. As marketers use AI to accomplish more with less, are they inadvertently proving that their organizations need less marketing investment?We also explore why marketing may have the "loneliest seat at the table," despite having one of the broadest views of the business, and why marketers need to reconnect what they do to financial outcomes if they want greater influence inside organizations.Then we turn to Google. A German court ruling could fundamentally change the relationship between platforms, publishers and AI-generated answers by treating Google's AI Overviews as Google's own content. If an answer belongs to Google, does the responsibility for that answer belong to Google too?Finally, Marc's Ad of the Week takes us back to Cannes with Columbia Sportswear's Expedition Impossible, a brilliantly committed challenge to flat-earthers that demonstrates why great creative showmanship is about much more than spectacle.In this episode:The AI efficiency spiralWhy AI should be treated as a growth tool, not simply a cost-saving toolMarketing's "panoramic view" of the businessWhy marketing needs to get beyond communicationsConnecting marketing activity to financial outcomesGoogle's emerging responsibility for AI-generated answersThe changing economics of AI searchColumbia Sportswear's Expedition ImpossibleWhy showmanship makes great advertising memorableChapters:00:00 Welcome to the Barber's Brief00:34 The AI Efficiency Spiral01:01 How CMOs Are Funding AI02:15 Why Smaller Companies May Be Winning With AI03:22 AI as a Growth Tool, Not a Cost-Cutting Tool05:49 Marketing Has the Loneliest Seat at the Table06:12 Marketing's Panoramic View of the Business08:43 Does the Rest of the Business See Marketing Differently?10:42 Why Marketing Feels Unpredictable12:31 Should Everything Marketing Does Link to Financial Outcomes?13:39 Marketing's Retreat Into Communications15:16 Getting Marketing Back Into the Business16:36 Google's AI Search Liability Problem18:45 When Google Becomes the Answer, Who Is Responsible?20:18 How AI Overviews Are Changing Search Behaviour23:18 Ad of the Week: Columbia's Expedition Impossible24:02 Challenging Flat-Earthers to Find the Edge of the Earth25:35 Why Columbia's Commitment Made the Idea Work27:11 Showing a Different Side of Columbia28:08 Why Showmanship Makes Advertising Great28:57 Closing Thoughts
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  SBP 225: The PostPod - Lessons from Traci Alfford. Good Work Is a Habit Not a Score 06.08.2026 26mnt

  What actually makes marketing effective?It's tempting to point to great creative.Or strong media.Or impressive results.But after our conversation with Effie Worldwide CEO Traci Alford, we realized effectiveness is something much bigger.In this Post-Pod we unpack the four-part system behind effective marketing and discuss why leadership, culture and organizational alignment often matter more than any individual campaign.Topics include:Why effectiveness is a system—not a scorecardObjectives, insight, creativity and learningWhy marketers struggle to define the real problemBravery versus riskThe importance of common language across the C-suiteWhy incentives may be working against effective marketingWe also introduce another edition of our Quick Fire round, highlighting the biggest ideas from the episode.Chapters:00:00 - Welcome to the Post-Pod00:40 - First Impressions of Traci Alford01:20 - Effectiveness Is a System03:10 - Are We Solving the Right Problem?05:15 - Great Systems Need Great Teams07:30 - Stakeholder Management & Common Language10:40 - Do Incentives Work Against Marketing?14:45 - Future Demand & Long-Term Thinking17:40 - Bravery vs Risk21:50 - Global Insights vs Statements of Fact24:05 - ⚡ Quick Fire24:20 - Best Quote24:40 - Biggest Insight25:10 - Most Practical Takeaway25:40 - Biggest Challenge for Marketers25:50 - Debate Question26:05 - Closing Thoughts
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  SBP 224: Interview - Good Work is a Habit, Not a Score. With Traci Alford 04.08.2026 38mnt

  Most companies treat effectiveness like a scoreboard. Traci Alford, Global CEO of Effies Worldwide, sees the entries from 130 countries, and she says that is exactly where it goes wrong.Measuring the crop does not grow it.In this conversation recorded in Cannes, Traci lays out the 4 things behind every winning case:understand the business problemfind a real insight rather than a statement of factexecute the creative brilliantly, andmeasure what happened so you can learn from it.Plenty of companies are strong at 1 or 2. Almost nobody is strong at all 4, and fewer still can tell the story that ties them together.Traci also draws a line most of the industry blurs. Brave is not the same as risky. Risk means you have not thought about your headwinds. Brave means you made a calculated choice and you can defend it in the room. And her data says you cannot do it halfway. Stick to your knitting and execute well, or take the real swing. Hovering in the middle is where work dies.Marc and V push on the parts that hurt. Why the short term always wins the budget fight. Why agency relationships go sour when a campaign is the only unit of measurement. Why marketing jargon loses the room. And where technology spend quietly eats the money that could have gone into media.Traci keeps coming back to the same place. This is a people business, and the habit has to live at the executive table, not just in the marketing team.Timestamps00:00 Cold open and welcome02:37 The 4 pillars behind every winning case05:39 Brave is not the same as risky09:18 Why this is a people business13:24 The short term trap and shared accountability18:28 Talking to the C-suite without the jargon24:07 Insight is the one most people fail29:34 Risk retreat, tech debt, and opportunity cost36:16 What to take home from CannesShow Notes LinksEffie Worldwide: https://effie.org/Tubi "Rabbit Holes" Super Bowl spot https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mROTZBUM1YkPrevious SBP episode with Karen Pearce, RethinkEhrenberg-Bass Institute 95:5 rule https://marketingscience.info/news-and-insights/the-955-rule-is-the-new-6040-rule
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  SBP 223: The Sharp Cut - Brand Awareness Is The Wrong Metric 30.07.2026 21mnt

  Brand awareness is one of the most reported metrics in marketing.It's in almost every board deck.Almost every brand tracker.Almost every agency review.But what if it's measuring the wrong thing?In this Sharp Cut, Marc and V explore why mental availability matters more than awareness, why Category Entry Points (CEPs) outperform personas as a planning framework, and why marketers should stop asking "Who is our customer?" and start asking "What buying situations do we need to own?"Topics include:Mental availability vs brand awarenessWhy awareness often fails to predict growthThe power of Category Entry PointsCreative as a targeting systemWhy Meta is moving away from hyper-targetingThe measurement framework marketers should actually useIf you've ever presented a rising awareness score alongside a flat business result, this episode is for you.Chapters:00:00 - Welcome to Sharp Cuts00:35 - Why Brand Awareness Is Misleading02:00 - Mental Availability vs Awareness03:45 - What Should We Measure Instead?05:15 - Category Entry Points Explained07:10 - The Seven Whys Framework08:00 - Why CEPs Changed the Conversation09:00 - Creative Becomes the Targeting Tool11:00 - Why Meta Is Broadening Audiences12:30 - Two Performance Marketers Confess15:30 - Where CEPs Go Wrong16:30 - The Three Cs of Prioritization17:30 - Distinctive Assets & Memory18:30 - Bailey's Case Study19:00 - Stop Measuring Brand Love20:30 - The New Measurement Framework21:30 - Final Takeaways
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  SBP 222: SBP Interview - Feels vs. Deals: The Real Battle for Q4. With Andrew Tindall and Vanessa Chin. 28.07.2026 1j 3mnt

  What actually mattered at Cannes?More importantly...What should marketers do differently because of it?In this special collaboration between The Sleeping Barber, That's What I Call Marketing, and System1, we unpack the biggest lessons from Cannes Lions and turn them into practical advice for the second half of the year.Topics include:Mark Ritson & Byron Sharp's rare appearance togetherWhy creativity still beats optimizationAI's real role in advertisingThe rise of creatorsWhy memory—not impressions—is becoming the metric that mattersWhy audio may be marketing's biggest opportunityThe Q4 creative playbookIf you're planning campaigns for the second half of the year, this conversation is your roadmap.Chapters:00:00 - Welcome & Why This Conversation Matters01:20 - What Really Happened Between Byron Sharp & Mark Ritson05:35 - Where They Still Disagree06:15 - Why Consistency Is Marketing's Biggest Weakness09:20 - What Marketers Often Misunderstand11:45 - AI After Cannes: Hype vs Reality17:15 - Are We Already Bored of AI?18:35 - Brand Characters, Consistency & Memory23:40 - Why Audio Could Be Marketing's Next Big Opportunity31:30 - Why Radio Still Works37:20 - Creators: What Most Brands Get Wrong43:30 - Memory Is Becoming Marketing's Most Important Metric51:50 - The Q4 Playbook54:00 - Feels vs Deals59:00 - Why Great Christmas Ads Return Every Year1:00:30 - Final Advice for Marketers
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  SBP 221: The PostPod - Lessons from Ty Heath. B2B Marketing is Playing the Game on Hard Mode. 23.07.2026 23mnt

  Ty Heath has a way of making complex marketing ideas feel deceptively simple.After our latest conversation with the former LinkedIn B2B Institute leader, we sat down to unpack the biggest ideas that stayed with us—from why B2B is simply "marketing on hard mode," to why confidence may be the true outcome of great B2B marketing.Along the way we explore:Why the same marketing principles apply across B2B and B2CBuying committees and why complexity changes execution—not human behaviourWhy the best B2B brands build ecosystems instead of campaignsThe power of contrarian thinkingWhy strategy should outlast trendsConfidence, memory and long-term brand buildingIf you've ever wondered whether B2B marketing really plays by different rules, this conversation may change your mind.00:00 - Welcome Back & First Reactions01:15 - Why B2B Is "Marketing on Hard Mode"02:15 - The B2B Institute as a Marketing Cheat Code03:30 - Buying Committees and What Makes B2B Different06:10 - Are B2B and B2C Actually That Different?07:15 - Has B2B Creativity Finally Matured?09:35 - Campaigns vs. Ecosystems12:00 - Why Event Marketing Builds Memory13:30 - The Contrarian Marketer15:10 - Chasing Trends vs. Building Strategy17:30 - Objectives Before Tactics18:10 ⚡ Quick Fire Begins18:35 - Best Quote19:15 - Most Surprising Insight20:20 - Biggest Missed Question21:45 - Most Practical Takeaway22:15 - Challenge for Marketers23:10 - Closing Thoughts
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  SBP 220: Interview - B2B Marketing is Playing the Game on Hard Mode. With Tyrona Heath. 21.07.2026 40mnt

  B2B marketing isn't playing a different game. It's playing the same game on hard mode.In this episode, we're joined by Ty Heath, Global Director of Thought Leadership Go-to-Market at LinkedIn and co-founder of the B2B Institute.Fresh off serving as Jury President for the Creative B2B Lions at Cannes, Ty shares what separated the best work from the rest—and why B2B creativity is entering a new era.We discuss:What won at Cannes B2B LionsWhy B2B creativity has maturedThe role of emotion in B2BBuying committees and "viability"Why ecosystems beat campaignsThe origin story of the B2B InstituteLong-term thinking inside LinkedInWhy B2B marketers are playing the game on "hard mode"Whether you work in B2B, B2C, media, or brand strategy, this conversation offers practical lessons on creativity, leadership and marketing effectiveness.Chapters:00:00 - Welcome Back, Tyronna Heath00:38 - Tyronna’s New Role at LinkedIn01:11 - Winning an Effie for “Only on LinkedIn”02:58 - Becoming Jury President for the Creative B2B Lions05:24 - Reviewing 355 Cannes Entries07:20 - Has B2B Creativity Finally Matured?09:14 - What Effective B2B Creativity Looks Like12:00 - Why the Best Ideas Can Be Explained in One Sentence13:24 - What Is Still Missing from B2B Creative?16:01 - Why Ecosystems Can Be More Powerful Than Campaigns18:09 - The Role of Emotion in B2B Decision-Making18:23 - Cannes as a B2B Brand Experience21:37 - The Origin Story of the B2B Institute25:25 - How the B2B Institute Built Its Influence28:05 - Thought Leadership and Betting on What Won’t Change31:09 - Human Behaviour as the Enduring Marketing Truth32:43 - Where B2B Creativity Goes Next34:15 - Why B2B Marketing Is “Hard Mode”37:07 - LinkedIn’s Long-Term B2B Playbook38:01 - Building Authority, Credibility and Confidence39:10 - The B2B Institute as a Marketing Cheat Code40:05 - Where to Follow Tyronna and the B2B Institute
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  SBP 219: The Sharp Cut - How Advertising Really Works 16.07.2026 27mnt

  What if almost everything we've been taught about advertising is built on a sales model from 1904?In this Sharp Cut, we unpack six of marketing's most persistent myths—from "digital has no waste" to "last-click attribution tells us what works"—before rebuilding a simpler, evidence-based explanation of how advertising actually works.Rather than relying on theory, we challenge these ideas using our own careers, practical examples, and decades of marketing science from Byron Sharp, Les Binet, James Hurman, Orlando Wood and others.In this episodeWhy digital isn't actually waste-freeWhy targeting isn't enoughWhy advertising isn't salesWhy creative matters more than many marketers believeWhy personalization has been oversoldWhy ROAS isn't telling the full storyWhy advertising is better understood as planting and harvestingIf you've ever struggled to explain marketing to your CFO—or even to yourself—this episode is for you.Chapters:00:00 Welcome to Sharp Cut00:15 Why Most Companies Misunderstand Advertising02:13 Myth #1: Digital Has No Waste06:36 Myth #2: Target High-Intent Audiences09:36 Myth #3: Advertising Is Sales Done Over Media11:03 Myth #4: Creative Is Just Decoration12:34 Myth #5: Personalization Is The Future14:29 Myth #6: Last-Click Attribution Tells Us What Works17:10 How Advertising Actually Works18:04 Why We're Still Using a Sales Model from 190419:55 Advertising Is a Weak Force20:47 The Two Jobs of Advertising21:39 Plant vs. Harvest: A Better Mental Model22:04 The McCain Case Study23:59 Why Most Companies Still Think Like Salespeople25:12 Becoming Experts in Our Own Trade26:20 Les Binet's One-Slide Explanation27:29 Final Thoughts: Start PlantingSupporting Links:Binkley, M., & Douros, V. (Hosts). (n.d.). What marketers still get wrong with Prof. Byron Sharp (No. 215) [Audio podcast episode]. The Sleeping Barber Podcast.Hurman, J. (2026). Future demand. https://futuredemand.comIwamoto, A. (2024). The origin of AIDA: Who invented and formulated the AIDA model? Japan Marketing History Review, 3(2), 150-166. https://doi.org/10.51102/jmhr.3.2_53Mulroney, R. (2024). McCain: When the chips are down, margins matter. How a focus on long-term emotional brand-building reduced price elasticity and increased profits for McCain [IPA Effectiveness Awards case study]. WARC. https://www.warc.com/content/article/mccain-when-the-chips-are-down-margins-matter-how-a-focus-on-long-term-emotional-brand-building-reduced-price-elasticity-and-increased-profits-for-mccain/156769WARC. (2026). The multiplier playbook: The CMO's guide to integrating brand and performance. WARC.Foundational sources (optional, for show notes)Binet, L., & Field, P. (2013). The long and the short of it: Balancing short and long-term marketing strategies. Institute of Practitioners in Advertising.Sharp, B. (2010). How brands grow: What marketers don't know. Oxford University Press.To confirm before air: Hurman subtitle and publisher; the exact platform and date of Binet's How Advertising Really Works video (candidate: the Cannes Lions Advertising 101 course); the publication date of SBP episode 215; and a direct URL for the WARC Multiplier Playbook (produced with Analytic Partners, BERA.ai, Prophet, System1 and the ANA).
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  SBP 218: The Barber's Brief - The Shelf Life of Competitive Advantage 14.07.2026 25mnt

  What do Netflix, Reddit, AI, M&M's and Lyft have in common?More than you might think.In this episode of The Barber's Brief, Marc Binkley and Vassilis Douros unpack one of the biggest strategic lessons in modern marketing: competitive advantages don't last forever.From Netflix reconsidering binge watching, to Reddit fighting AI generated spam, to the explosion of Martech tools and one of the year's smartest advertising campaigns from Lyft, this episode explores why the brands that continue to grow are the ones willing to challenge yesterday's assumptions.Topics include:Netflix's changing release strategyAI spam and Reddit's responseAre marketers buying too many AI tools?Why one M&M mascot was bannedLyft's brilliant "Save the Money" campaignWhy great advertising dramatizes problems instead of explaining benefitsIf you enjoy evidence-based marketing, creative effectiveness and challenging conventional wisdom, subscribe for new episodes every week.Chapters00:00 Introduction01:00 Netflix and the Innovator's Dilemma05:30 Reddit vs AI Spam10:05 AI Tool Overload15:30 The M&M Mascot Ban19:45 Ad of the Week — Lyft23:20 Coming Next: How Advertising Really WorksNews Links:Did Netflix Break the Habit It Created? - https://techcrunch.com/2026/07/06/netflix-invented-binge-watching-now-it-may-have-outgrown-it/ Reddit Is Cracking Down on AI Marketing Slop - https://finance.yahoo.com/technology/ai/articles/reddit-cracking-down-ai-marketing-115000368.html5 questions to ask AI vendors before buying a tool -https://searchengineland.com/ai-vendor-questions-481765M&M’s brand character gets ad banned under unhealthy food rules - https://www.marketingweek.com/mms-brand-character-lhf-ad-rules/Lyft. Save the Money - https://youtu.be/7KARBlOzx8E?si=a4ummQl8NvYFmPO8
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  SBP 217: The PostPod - Lessons from James Hurman. Ads Don't Persuade People to Buy. 09.07.2026 25mnt

  What if marketing's biggest challenge isn't proving its value—but explaining it? Following our conversation with James Hurman, we reflect on one of the most practical frameworks we've encountered in years: Future Demand.Rather than revisiting every topic from the interview, this Post-Pod explores what the ideas actually mean for marketers trying to influence leadership, defend budgets, and build long-term growth inside their organizations.In this episode:Why "future demand" may be better language than "brand awareness"Why leadership teams naturally prioritize demand captureThe role of marketing during recessions - Why great campaigns wear in—not outWhy dashboards often tell an incomplete storyObjective truth vs. personal truth in marketingHow evidence-based marketing becomes repeatable inside organizationsIf you've already listened to our interview with James Hurman, this conversation helps connect the dots between marketing theory and day-to-day practice.Enjoy the show!Chapters:00:00 Welcome to the Post-Pod00:45 James Hurman’s Core Idea: Advertising Creates Future Demand01:40 Demand Creation vs. Demand Capture03:55 Future Demand as a Leadership Conversation05:00 The Smartphone Example and the 95/5 Rule07:55 Market Dynamics and Performance Marketing Bias08:50 Why Brand Matters Most in Recessions11:05 Campaigns Wear In, Not Out12:40 The Problem with Platform Metrics15:15 Objective Truth vs. Personal and Political Truth17:20 Why Future Demand Is Easier to Sell Internally19:15 Evidence-Based Marketing and Organizational Buy-In21:50 Why Repeatability Matters24:20 Final Reflections on James Hurman’s Book
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  SBP 216: Interview - Ads Don’t Persuade People to Buy. With James Hurman. 07.07.2026 1j 6mnt

  Advertising doesn't work by persuading people to buy. It works by creating future demand. James Hurman returns to unpack his new book: why the funnel is the wrong model, how the biggest group of buyers isn't in the market yet, why green dashboards can hide a dying brand, and how to make the case for brand spend to a CFO who only sees this year.There are two types of demand in any market: the small group ready to buy now, and the much larger group who will come in later. Most advertising pours everything into the first group, watches the dashboards turn green, and wonders why the business numbers stay red. James Hurman returns to The Sleeping Barber to explain the fix at the heart of his new book, Future Demand.Marc, V, and James work through the two-part funnel that replaces the old model, the myth that great companies don't advertise, why Volvo's Epic Split kept paying off for a decade, and why ads wear in rather than wear out. They get practical on the boardroom case: share of voice, the five to ten percent rule, and how to reframe brand as future cash flow for a finance team. They close on AI: the book's Pocket Advisor app, and how language models lean on brand signals when they choose what to recommend.Enjoy the show.Show note links:Future Demand (book, ebook, audiobook, Pocket Advisor app, community): https://futuredemand.comFuture Demand community: https://community.futuredemand.comJames Hurman (website): https://www.jameshurman.comTracksuit (brand tracking): https://www.gotracksuit.comThe Creative Effectiveness Ladder (Hurman & Peter Field, WARC / Cannes Lions): https://www.warc.comVolvo Trucks: Epic Split feat. Jean-Claude Van Damme (2013): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7FIvfx5J10Guest Social:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameshurman/Substack: https://substack.com/@jameshurmanWebsite: https://www.jameshurman.comBook / app / community: https://futuredemand.comChapters:00:00 - The two types of demand, and why James rewrote the book06:25 - Brand isn't a big-company luxury: the 18-month payoff09:42 - Two types of demand, made visual14:14 - Why the funnel is the wrong model16:03 - The great-companies-don't-advertise myth22:30 - Target tight for now, broad for later26:32 - Volvo's Epic Split and the milk paradox31:35 - Ads wear in, they don't wear out37:21 - Boats and tides: why green dashboards lie43:30 - The boardroom case: share of voice, budgets, and the CFO52:51 - Recessions: cut performance, protect brand56:40 - AI: the Pocket Advisor and how models pick brands
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  SBP 215: What Marketers Still Get Wrong. With Prof. Byron Sharp. 02.07.2026 26mnt

  Byron Sharp — Professor of Marketing Science, Director of the Ehrenberg-Bass Institute at the University of Adelaide, and author of How Brands Grow — joins us at Cannes fresh off his sold-out Bassey Theatre session with Mark Ritson (a thousand people queued to get in).We dig into the five fundamentals he and Ritson agreed on and, more usefully, where the industry keeps getting them wrong. Byron explains why mental availability is not the same as brand awareness, why “search advertising” was a branding con that confuses purchase availability with memory-building, and why your media metrics are lying to you about reach.Along the way: the retail-media gold rush (sorry, Marriott Media), the AI hype bubble he expects to pop, why Elsa buried every other Disney princess, and the “non-artificial intelligence” agent Ehrenberg-Bass is building to stop corporate AI from breaking marketing’s laws of physics.A masterclass in thinking clearly about what your marketing money is actually supposed to do.Chapters:00:00 - Welcome: Byron Sharp at Cannes, and why impact (not academic prestige) drives Ehrenberg-Bass01:39 - The “two festivals” of Cannes: creativity awards vs. the serious fringe; the sold-out Ritson session04:03 - What’s being sold to marketers on the Croisette — and the retail-media land grab (Marriott Media)05:26 - Fragmentation, monetizing inventory, and why ~80% of this year’s AI vendors will be gone07:02 -The five things Byron agreed with Ritson on10:21 - #1 Mental availability — and the critical mistake of confusing it with awareness12:27 - “You overestimate your reach”: fleeting exposures and inflated media metrics14:19 - Why calling it “search advertising” was a disservice: purchase vs. mental availability15:27 - #2 Distinctive brand assets — why a logo checkbox isn’t enough17:46 - #3 Consistency — everyone agrees, nobody does it18:50 - The “big idea,” category entry points, and the Frozen/Elsa problem21:42 - Inside the How Brands Grow executive program23:46 - “Non-artificial intelligence”: the AI agent Ehrenberg-Bass is building25:20 - WrapLinks:Ehrenberg-Bass Institute: https://marketingscience.info/Professor Byron Sharp: https://www.linkedin.com/in/professorbyronsharp/How Brands Grow Live: https://marketingscience.info/learn-with-us/learning-opportunities/how-brands-grow-live-for-executives
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  SBP 214: The Cannes Cut - The Gap Between Knowing and Doing: Day 5 Reflections. Featuring David Tiltman. 30.06.2026 58mnt

  After five days, dozens of interviews, countless presentations, and conversations with some of marketing's brightest minds, one thing became clear:The future of marketing isn't about more technology. It's about better thinking.Throughout Cannes Lions 2026, we spoke with leaders from System1, WARC, Ehrenberg-Bass, Amazon Ads, Pinterest, and many of the industry's leading creative and effectiveness thinkers.In this final Cannes Cut, we reflect on the biggest themes that emerged throughout the week, including:Why simplicity continues to outperform complexityHow AI is settling into its rightful role as a tool—not a strategyThe growing danger of the efficiency trapWhy creativity remains one of the strongest commercial advantages a brand can buildThe return of long-term thinking, brand building, and strategic disciplineWe also sit down with David Tiltman (WARC) to discuss the Multiplier Effect Playbook, organisational barriers to effectiveness, why strategy is becoming more important than ever, and how marketers can bridge the gap between knowing what works and actually doing it.To close out the series, we head back onto the Croisette for one final edition of The Buzz Cut, featuring conversations with:Aaron Starkman (Rethink)Brendan Christie (Strategy Magazine)Ruxandra Papuc (AIN'T)Presented by System1.If you've enjoyed following our Cannes journey, thank you for joining us throughout the week.Chapters:00:00 - Introduction02:15 - Reflecting on an Incredible Week06:30 - Simplicity Wins11:05 - AI Finds Its Place16:10 - The Efficiency Trap21:45 - Why Brand Experience Matters26:10 - Is This the Best Time to Be a Marketer?30:30 - Interview: David Tiltman52:30 - Final Buzz Cut58:15 - Wrapping Up Cannes
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  SBP 213: The Cannes Cut - Dull Ads Are A System, Not A Symptom. With Orlando Wood. 26.06.2026 53mnt

  Day 4 on the Croisette, and the Cannes Festival of Creativity is in full swing. The Cannes Cut series is proudly presented by System1.Vanessa Chin, VP Marketing at System1, opens with a live field dispatch: which campaigns are actually scoring at Cannes, what the new Creator Effectiveness Playbook says about briefing for emotional impact, and why Dunkin' took gold while Kit Kat posted one of the highest out-of-home scores System1 has ever recorded.She also tackles the question the industry keeps circling - is AI the creative revolution everyone promised, or just a better production tool?Then the feature interview.Orlando Wood, Chief Creative Officer at System1, argues that dull advertising is structural, not incidental.Media fragmentation, measurement frameworks calibrated for the wrong school of advertising, and rules-based creative thinking all work against artistry before a single brief is written. Drawing on advertising history from Toulouse-Lautrec to Bernbach, and neuroscience from Ian McGilchrist, Orlando maps the war between showmanship and salesmanship - and explains why applying one school's measurement philosophy to the other destroys the work.The episode closes with the Buzz Cut: the sights and sounds from the attendees. Ty Heath from LinkedIn shared her perspective on life inside the B2B Lions jury room, WARC APAC's Rica Facundo on the three ceilings of social, Hannah Riberdhal from Brand Marketing Sweden on what this year's Cannes sounds like compared to four years ago, and two Young Lions competitors fresh off a 24-hour brief.Timestamps0:00 Opening - Vanessa Chin (System1) on Cannes testing, AI, and the Creator Effectiveness Playbook12:23 Feature interview - Orlando Wood on why dull advertising is structural, not a talent problem23:06 Fluent devices, coherence vs consistency, and the living brand33:08 The history of showmanship and salesmanship - and why creators may be bringing artistry back37:11 Measuring creative: why salesmanship measurement destroys showmanship work40:10 Post Pod debrief41:18 Buzz Cut - Ty Heath (LinkedIn B2B Institute), Rica Facundo (WARC APAC), Hannah (Brand Marketing Sweden), Young LionsReferencesSystem1 https://system1group.com/Advertising Principles Explained (course with Sir John Hegarty) https://advertisingprinciplesexplained.com/System1 Creative Dividend Report https://system1group.com/the-creative-dividendSystem1 Creator Effectiveness Playbook https://system1group.com/the-creator-effectiveness-playbookLemon: How the Advertising Brain Turned Sour - Orlando Wood (book) https://system1group.com/lemonThanks for keeping us in your ears, stay sharp everyone.
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  SBP 212: The Cannes Cut - Brand Fit Beats Follower Count: Day 3 Reflections 24.06.2026 49mnt

  Day three at Cannes Lions revealed something unexpected.Coming into the festival, many predicted AI would dominate every conversation.Instead, another topic has quietly taken centre stage:Creators.Not creator hype. Not influencer marketing. Creator effectiveness.Presented by System1, today's Cannes Cut explores one of the biggest conversations happening across the Croisette. Marc and Vassilis reflect on another packed day at Cannes, including the System1 Stars of the Show event featuring Andrew Tindall, Orlando Wood, Mark Ritson, Les Binet, Adam Morgan and many of the industry's leading thinkers.The featured interview is with Andrew Tindall, Chief Growth Officer at System1, who joins us to discuss the new Creator Effectiveness Playbook, developed in partnership with WPP and TikTok.One insight stood above the rest:Most creator campaigns aren't driving meaningful brand growth. A small "brilliant minority" are responsible for the majority of the impact.The conversation has evolved beyond follower counts and engagement rates. Instead, marketers are asking better questions:Does this creator genuinely fit the brand?How do creators build memory, not just engagement?Why does emotion still outperform optimisation?What role do distinctive brand assets play in creator content?And how do we stop treating creator marketing like a casino?We also bring back another edition of The Buzz Cut, hearing directly from marketers around the world, including Lauren Anderson (Amazon Ads), David Tiltman (WARC), Reno from Nikkei, and Vinnie from Leo São Paulo, sharing what's capturing their attention halfway through Cannes.In this episode:Highlights from System1's Stars of the ShowAndrew Tindall on the Creator Effectiveness PlaybookWhy only a small minority of creator campaigns drive real growthWhy brand fit matters more than follower countPinterest's positioning around quality engagementWhy AI feels more like infrastructure than the headline storyThe latest perspectives from marketers across the CroisetteThe rosé can wait. Our questions can't.Chapters00:00 Introduction03:04 Insights from System1's Baoli Event05:54 The Role of Creators in Sports09:01 Pinterest's Marketing Strategy and Insights11:50 The Current State of Creative Effectiveness14:55 The Importance of Emotion in Advertising18:11 The Evolving Role of Content Creators21:03 Key Findings from the Creator Effectiveness Playbook25:21 The Role of Emotion in Branding29:08 Effective Briefing for Creators30:34 Understanding Distinctive Brand Assets32:17 Leveraging Social Devices in Marketing35:08 Insights from Amazon's Brand Activation38:35 The Evolution of Cannes Lions Festival43:11 Creative Impact and Effectiveness47:13 The Value of Attending Cannes Lions
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  SBP 211: The Cannes Cut - Creators, Commerce, and Amazon's Canvas: Day 2 Reflections 23.06.2026 39mnt

  This episode has been presented by System1.Everyone talks about the full funnel. Amazon has actually built it. Day 2 of the Sleeping Barber's Cannes Cut takes Marc and V from the Amazon port activation, a full marina-length brand experience housing a cafe, a speakeasy, 30 meeting rooms, and a stage headlined by Shaquille O'Neal and Oprah, to a sit-down interview with Lauren Anderson, US Head of the Brand Innovation Lab.Lauren explains what the 'canvas' framing actually means for advertisers: not a menu of placements to check, but a working-backwards discipline from brand objectives through to seamless customer handoffs. The Hellman's 'Mayo for a Melody' campaign, extending the Andy Sandberg Super Bowl spot into a Fire TV karaoke experience with QR-enabled purchase, is the clearest case study of how awareness converts to action without the usual clunky hand-off between platform teams.The conversation also covers creator partnerships (co-collaborators, not billboards), the messy middle of measurement (experiential value is real but long-horizon), and why the Brand Innovation Lab's ethos is restraint: not throwing every part of the canvas at a brief, but identifying what's most fit for purpose.Buzz Cut guests from the catamaran round out the episode: Esther Benzi (CMA President), Zach Grossman (Director of Sales, TikTok Canada), Neil Mohan of ClickHealth, and Jeanette from Hashtag Paid, all weighing in on creativity, measurement, and what it actually feels like when AI takes the backseat at Cannes.Chapters00:00 - Cannes 2025, another look05:13 - Amazon's Brand Activation at Cannes10:03 - bInsights from the Boat: Networking and Learning11:43 - Lauren Anderson and The Role of the Brand Innovation Lab19:59 - Campaigns that Connect: Hellman's and More31:36 - Esther Benzie32:52 - Zack Grossman34:26 - Neil Mohan37:17 - Jeanette Rees
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  SBP 210: The Cannes Cut - Creativity That Works: Cannes Day 1 Reflections 22.06.2026 40mnt

  This episode has been presented by System1.What happens when Byron Sharp, Mark Ritson, System1, creators, AI, and Cannes Lions all collide on Day One?In the first edition of our Cannes Cut series, presented by System1, Marc and V unpack the biggest themes emerging from Cannes Lions 2026, including why creativity is increasingly being judged through the lens of effectiveness, why marketers may be spreading budgets too thin, and why some of the industry's biggest thinkers are converging on a surprisingly small set of principles.Along the way, the guys sit down with Vanessa Chin (SVP Marketing, System1) to discuss creativity, creators, celebrities, emotional advertising, AI-generated campaigns, and why happiness and humour continue to outperform serious purpose-driven work.They also hit the Croisette to capture perspectives from attendees, founders, creators, publishers, and marketers about the trends shaping Cannes this year.In this episode:Why effectiveness has become the dominant conversation at CannesDavid Tiltman's "Fewer, Bigger, Better" frameworkThe five things Byron Sharp and Mark Ritson agree onMental availability and why awareness isn't enoughDistinctive brand assets and why logos alone don't cut itWhy sophisticated mass marketing still mattersThe case against purpose-led marketingHow creators are becoming marketing "super touchpoints"Why funny advertising continues to outperform serious advertisingThe role AI is actually playing in modern creative developmentSights and sounds from the CroisettePlus: exclusive insights from Vanessa Chin and conversations with marketers attending Cannes from around the world.The Rosé can wait. The questions can't.In this episode:Why effectiveness has become the dominant conversation at CannesDavid Tiltman and WARC's "Fewer, Bigger, Better" frameworkThe five things Byron Sharp and Mark Ritson agree onMental availability and why awareness isn't enoughDistinctive brand assets and why logos alone don't cut itWhy sophisticated mass marketing still mattersThe case against purpose-led marketingHow creators are becoming marketing "super touchpoints"Why funny advertising continues to outperform serious advertisingThe role AI is actually playing in modern creative developmentSights and sounds from the CroisetteThe Rosé can wait. The questions can't.Chapters00:00 - Welcome to Cannes: The Excitement Begins02:53 - Insights from Industry Leaders06:06 - The Importance of Mental Availability08:52 - Distinctive Brand Assets and Their Impact12:09 - The Shift from Purpose to Emotion in Advertising14:59 - The Role of Celebrities in Marketing17:58 - The Power of Humour in Campaigns20:52 - The Future of Creators in Advertising23:48 - Final Thoughts and Key Takeaways27:25 - Conor Byrne, Exploring AI's Human Element30:03 - Alex, Insights from AI Central Media32:49 - Rachel Higgins, Connecting and Gaining Inspiration35:38 - Mariam Bebiashvili, Marketing Strategies and AI Integration