Value Investing with Legends

Epizodes

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  Eddie Perkin - Battling Biases and Building Better Investment Teams 10.07.2026 56min

  In this episode, Michael Mauboussin welcomes Eddie Perkin, former Chief Investment Officer at Eaton Vance and Goldman Sachs Asset Management, to discuss the principles behind better investment decision-making. Eddie shares how his early experiences shaped his investment philosophy before examining quality value investing, behavioral biases, and the importance of process over outcomes. The conversation explores leadership, collaborative conflict, confirmation bias, portfolio construction, selling discipline, and how investment organizations can create environments that encourage independent thinking. Eddie also reflects on the future of investing, the opportunities created by technological change, and the books and ideas that continue to influence his thinking—and much more! Key Topics Eddie Perkin's background and journey into investing (2:58)  Early lessons in behavioral biases and groupthink (6:31)  The "Mercedes with a scratch" approach to quality value investing (9:03)  Investing across U.S., European, and emerging markets (10:54)  Why great businesses should be identified before valuation screens (13:15)  Developing variant perception through research and preparation (15:12)  Leading investment teams through focus, accountability, and empowerment (17:58)  The behavioral biases that damage investment organizations most (21:01)  The Robinson Crusoe exercise for identifying long-term compounders (22:43)  Outcome bias and lessons from NFL two-point conversion decisions (25:11)  Combating confirmation bias with devil's advocates and AI (29:32)  Improving investment sell decisions through process and discipline (32:20)  Active management, indexing, and market efficiency (35:17)  Time horizons, retail investors, and short-term market noise (37:31)  Leading teams through organizational change during the financial crisis (39:22)  Hiring for curiosity, independent thinking, and constructive conflict (41:37)  Running effective investment meetings and encouraging dissent (44:10)  Specialists versus generalists in investment research (46:56)  Incentives that reinforce performance and collaboration (48:18)  Advice for aspiring investment professionals and the role of AI (50:18)  Why Eddie remains optimistic about the future of investing (53:06)  Eddie's book and podcast recommendations (54:38)  And much more!  Mentioned in this Episode Eaton Vance  Goldman Sachs Asset Management  Morgan Stanley Investment Management  Invesco  Babson College  Columbia Business School  Berkshire Hathaway  Bank of America  Nike  FactSet  SpaceX  Running Against the Herd: Battling Biases to Make Better Investment Decisions — Eddie Perkin  The Courage to Be Disliked — Ichiro Kishimi & Fumitake Koga  Quest for Value — G. Bennett Stewart III  Robinson Crusoe — Daniel Defoe  What Happens Next podcast — Larry Bernstein  Thanks for Listening!   Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at valueinvesting@gsb.columbia.edu.   Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!  
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  Django Davidson - The Capital Cycle: Finding Opportunity Where Others Aren't Looking 26.06.2026 56min

  In this episode, hosts Tano Santos and Michael Mauboussin welcome Django Davidson, Partner and Portfolio Manager at Hosking Partners, for a discussion of the capital cycle approach to investing. Django shares how his unconventional upbringing, experience covering banks during the Global Financial Crisis, and early exposure to Warren Buffett's letters shaped his investment philosophy. The conversation explores the origins of the capital cycle framework, how investors can identify industries experiencing excessive capital formation or capital scarcity, and why patience and long-term capital are essential to capturing opportunities. They also examine current AI investment trends, the evolution of the semiconductor industry, Japan's corporate reforms, and several real-world investment case studies, including Micron Technology and Saga. The discussion concludes with reflections on industrial resilience, supply chains, and book recommendations—and much more! Key Topics: ● Django's upbringing, education, and path into investing (2:08) ● Lessons from covering banks during the Global Financial Crisis (3:50) ● Discovering Warren Buffett's letters and their influence on his investment philosophy (5:33) ● Investing during periods of crisis and the importance of trust in financial systems (7:23) ● The origins and foundations of the capital cycle framework (12:58) ● Using the capital cycle as a lens for contrarian investing (16:28) ● Long-term capital and identifying multi-bagger opportunities (19:59) ● Japan's corporate reforms and improving returns on capital (23:30) ● Timing challenges, diversification, and capital cycle investing (28:07) ● AI, semiconductor investment, and today's technology spending boom (32:15) ● Google, AI economics, and capital deployment considerations (40:30) ● Micron Technology and the evolution of the memory semiconductor industry (42:08) ● The Saga investment case study and opportunities in overlooked businesses (44:35) ● Demographics, aging consumers, and serving older customers effectively (49:59) ● Supply chain resilience and industrial capacity in Western economies (51:53) ● Django's book recommendations (54:05) ● And much more!   Mentioned in this Episode: ● Hosking Partners ● Deutsche Bank ● TCI Fund Management ● Micron Technology ● Google ● Meta Platforms ● Oracle Corporation ● OpenAI ● Anthropic ● Walmart ● First Quantum Minerals ● Saga plc ● The Material World ● The Bolter   Thanks for Listening!   Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at valueinvesting@gsb.columbia.edu.   Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!  
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  Jim Flynn - Building a Healthcare Investment Platform Across Public, Private, and Venture 12.06.2026 46min

  Jim Flynn is the Managing Partner of Deerfield Management, a healthcare-focused investment firm overseeing approximately $16 billion in assets. In this episode, hosts Michael Mauboussin and Tano Santos speak with Jim about his path from studying biology and economics to leading one of the industry's most distinctive healthcare investment platforms. Jim explains how Deerfield evolved from a public-equity-focused firm into an organization spanning public markets, private investments, venture creation, drug development, data science, and philanthropy. The conversation examines the challenges of healthcare investing, the importance of probabilistic thinking, the role of artificial intelligence in healthcare delivery and drug discovery, and Deerfield's approach to identifying opportunities across the healthcare ecosystem. Jim also shares insights on senior housing, healthcare innovation, regulatory dynamics, and the skills required for the next generation of healthcare investors, and much more!    Key Topics: ● Jim Flynn's background in biology, economics, and early investing influences (2:27) ● Lessons from working in corporate development and understanding business operations (4:30) ● Joining Deerfield and the evolution from analyst to firm leader (7:52) ● Expanding Deerfield beyond public equities into venture, private investments, and philanthropy (10:36) ● Building a flexible healthcare investment platform across market cycles (13:58) ● The Melinta case study and transforming a distressed investment into an operating success (14:32) ● Artificial intelligence and its potential impact on healthcare delivery and diagnosis (18:52) ● AI adoption challenges and the role of healthcare institutions in driving change (22:13) ● Why proprietary healthcare data creates durable investment advantages (25:50) ● The creation of Deerfield Discovery and Development and CURE (27:12) ● Cross-pollination between public and private investing at Deerfield (31:05) ● The NewAmsterdam Pharma (NewValent) case study from concept to multibillion-dollar company (33:08) ● Investing in senior housing and demographic-driven opportunities (36:20) ● Evaluating healthcare policy, drug pricing, and regulatory risks through a long-term lens (40:16) ● Skills and characteristics needed for future healthcare investors (43:09) ● What worries and motivates Jim Flynn as a healthcare investor (44:30) ● Deerfield's investment process, team structure, and reducing analytical bias (46:53) ● Personal healthcare practices, longevity, and access to medical information (51:25) ● And much more!   Mentioned in this Episode: ● Deerfield Management ● Alpharma ● Kidder Peabody ● GlaxoSmithKline ● Sanofi ● Hospital for Special Surgery ● Brookdale Senior Living ● OpenAI ● ChatGPT ● GRAIL ● Food and Drug Administration    Thanks for Listening!   Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at valueinvesting@gsb.columbia.edu. Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!
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  Matthew Fine - Buying Gray Clouds and Building Resilient Portfolios 08.05.2026 59min

  In this episode, hosts Tano Santos and Michael Mauboussin speak with Matthew Fine, portfolio manager at Third Avenue Management, about his path into investing and the firm's value-driven philosophy. Matthew reflects on lessons from early experiences like the Argentine crisis and explains how balance sheet strength and long-term thinking shape investment decisions. The conversation examines global opportunities across Europe, Japan, and commodities, along with the role of resource conversion in value creation. They also discuss market structure shifts, portfolio resilience during crises, and the challenges of identifying mispriced assets in a changing investment landscape and much more!   Key Topics: ● Introduction and background of Matthew Fine (0:00) ● Early interest in investing and joining Third Avenue (3:37) ● First investments during the dot-com bubble (5:54) ● Marty Whitman's influence and value investing philosophy (7:23) ● Importance of downside thinking and credit mindset (9:20) ● Benchmark agnosticism and high active share (10:14) ● Experience during the Argentine crisis (11:45) ● Generalists vs. specialists in investing (14:12) ● Financial strength and resource conversion explained (18:34) ● Portfolio resilience during major market crises (21:28) ● Understanding market disagreement and investor behavior (24:54) ● Impact of passive investing and short-term strategies (30:27) ● Artificial intelligence and investment process (33:03) ● European banks and Bank of Ireland case study (34:38) ● CK Hutchison and value creation through transactions (40:42) ● Commodity investing and copper thesis (45:14) ● Opportunities and challenges in Japan (49:26) ● Advice for students entering investment management (53:22) ● Concerns about U.S. equity valuations and future outlook (55:28) ● Book recommendations and closing thoughts (56:59) ● And much more! Mentioned in this Episode: ● Third Avenue Management ● Bank of Ireland ● Deutsche Bank ● CK Hutchison ● BlackRock ● MSC (Mediterranean Shipping Company) ● The Sugar King of Havana ● How the World Really Works – Vaclav Smil ● Pioneering Portfolio Management – David Swensen ● Ten Global Trends Every Smart Person Should Know About – Marian Tupy Thanks for Listening!   Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at valueinvesting@gsb.columbia.edu. Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!
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  Jenny Harrington - Dividend Investing, Risk Management, and Building Reliable Income Streams 17.04.2026 1h 1min

  In this episode, hosts Michael Mauboussin and Tano Santos speak with Jenny Harrington, CEO of Gilman Hill Asset Management, about her approach to dividend-focused investing. Jenny shares her journey from early internships to portfolio management and explains how her strategy targets steady income through high-quality dividend-paying companies. The discussion examines risk management through cash flow, valuation discipline, and behavioral considerations that influence investor outcomes. Jenny also outlines her screening process, portfolio construction, and how she evaluates dividend sustainability. The conversation touches on lessons from market cycles, the role of communication in investing, and how technological changes may shape future opportunities and risks and much more! Key Topics: ● Introduction to dividend investing and its role in total returns (0:00) ● Jenny Harrington's early career and path into portfolio management (3:05) ● Lessons from internships and exposure to market professionals (3:10) ● Experience at Goldman Sachs and insights from the dot-com bubble (10:03) ● Transition to Neuberger Berman and developing an income strategy (15:01) ● Philosophy of portfolio management and client-focused outcomes (16:45) ● Structure of the dividend income strategy and screening process (20:58) ● Differences between dividend income and dividend growth investing (27:30) ● Portfolio construction, position sizing, and diversification approach (36:25) ● Case study: Clorox investment thesis and valuation framework (40:03) ● Case study: Best Buy and identifying value through free cash flow (46:06) ● Impact of Columbia Business School on investment philosophy (49:48) ● Importance of communication and behavioral discipline in investing (54:47) ● Views on AI, job disruption, and future market implications (57:02) ● Book recommendations and information sources (59:06) ● And much more!   Mentioned in this Episode:  ● Gilman Hill Asset Management ● Goldman Sachs ● Neuberger Berman ● Columbia Business School ● CNBC ● Van Leeuwen Ice Cream ● Best Buy ● Clorox ● Kimberly-Clark ● IBM ● Hewlett Packard ● PayPal ● Poor Charlie's Almanack by Charles T. Munger ● Pioneering Portfolio Management by David Swensen ● Elon Musk by Walter Isaacson   Thanks for Listening!   Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at valueinvesting@gsb.columbia.edu.   Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!  
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  Samer Sarraf - Investing in the GCC: Private Equity Discipline in Public Markets 13.03.2026 1h 16min

  In this episode, Tano Santos speaks with Samer Sarraf, Founding Partner and COO of Amwal Capital Partners, about his journey from engineering and construction to Lehman Brothers and ultimately founding a public equities firm focused on the GCC. Samer reflects on lessons from the 2008 financial crisis, why private equity struggled in the region, and how his team applies a private equity mindset to public markets. The conversation examines regulatory change, market structure in Saudi and the UAE, concentrated investing, and a deep dive into Abu Dhabi Ports and much more!        Key Topics:     ●Samer's upbringing in Jordan and the role of education and entrepreneurship in his family (3:35) ● Studying civil engineering at McGill and early career in construction in Paris and Tahiti (9:46) ● Transition to Columbia Business School and pivot toward finance (16:16) ● Joining Lehman Brothers' real estate group and structuring CMBS transactions (17:57) ● Early signs of stress in credit markets ahead of the financial crisis (23:28) ● Moving from investment banking to private equity in the GCC (26:48) ● Why the private equity model struggled in the region (35:02) ● Founding Amwal Capital Partners and testing the strategy with personal capital (31:15) ● The structure and liquidity of GCC public markets, including Saudi Arabia and the UAE (37:24) ● Applying a "private equity DNA" approach to public equities (43:23) ● Using regulatory insight and on-the-ground research as a competitive edge (49:45) ● Portfolio construction and concentrated positioning in regional markets (55:18) ● Case study: Abu Dhabi Ports and the long-term logistics and industrialization thesis (56:27) ● And much more!  Mentioned in this Episode:   ● Amwal Capital Partners   ● Lehman Brothers   ● Abu Dhabi Ports   ● Dubai Ports World   ● McGill University   ● Columbia Business School        Thanks for Listening!    Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at valueinvesting@gsb.columbia.edu.    Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more! 
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  Ricky Sandler - Investing Through Perception Shifts and Market Cycles 19.12.2025 55min

  Ricky Sandler, founder, CEO, and CIO of Eminence Capital, joins hosts Michael Mauboussin and Tano Santos to explore a dynamic career spanning over three decades in long-short investing. Starting with stories from his upbringing and early career, Ricky unpacks the foundations of his investment philosophy centered around "change in perception" — a framework shaped by evolving market structures and investor behavior. He shares insights from navigating the 1998 crisis, outlines the value of rigorous risk management, and explains how quality businesses combined with contrarian thinking create lasting opportunities. The conversation also delves into quant integration, thoughtful activism, the nuances of portfolio construction, and his reflections on AI, market structure, and societal risks — and much more! Key Topics: ● Ricky Sandler's upbringing, tennis, and early exposure to finance (0:00)  ● The influence of competitive tennis on his investing mindset (3:58)  ● Why he considered law before ultimately pursuing finance (5:55)  ● Lessons from early roles at Mark Asset and Fusion Capital (7:30)  ● Insights from the 1998 market crisis and developing better risk management (10:06)  ● Defining 'change in perception' and its role in investment strategy (12:21)  ● Understanding shifts in market behavior post-GFC (14:42)  ● COVID-era investment case study: Red Rock Resorts (22:31)  ● Portfolio construction principles and balancing risk/reward (27:56)  ● Integrating quant and data science at Eminence Capital (33:44)  ● Activism and engaged ownership strategies (36:34)  ● Thoughts on AI, bubbles, and systemic market risks (38:36)  ● Risk management and portfolio design in volatile environments (41:06)  ● How Ricky trains his team to distill what matters in investing (42:39)  ● AI's role in analyst work and future of research (44:27)  ● Worries and hopes for the future: market structure, government debt, and optimism (46:39)  ● Book and podcast recommendations (49:30)  ● Closing remarks (51:02)  ● And much more! Mentioned in this Episode: ● Eminence Capital  ● Ashland Inc.  ● Entain  ● Red Rock Resorts  ● Live Nation  ● Meta  ● Tesla  ● Salesforce  ● Zillow  ● KKR  ● Pluralsight  ● Autodesk  ● Men's Wearhouse ● Think Again by Adam Grant  ● Grit by Angela Duckworth  ● Teaming by Amy Edmondson  ● Quit by Annie Duke  ● Mindset by Carol Dweck  ● Invisible Influence by Jonah Berger  ● Lessons of the Titans by Tim Ferriss  ● 1929 by Andrew Ross Sorkin Thanks for Listening! Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at valueinvesting@gsb.columbia.edu. Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more! Apple Podcasts Google Podcasts Spotify  Email Heilbrunn Center Instagram LinkedIn
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  Robert Robotti - From Pink Sheets to Portfolio Management: Bob Robotti's Value Investing Journey 21.11.2025 1h 2min

  Robert Robotti, President and CIO of Robotti & Company Advisors, joins host Michael Mauboussin to explore a lifetime shaped by value investing. With deep roots in accounting and formative experiences auditing firms like Tweedy, Browne, Bob shares how those early exposures led him to a career buying underfollowed, undervalued companies. In this episode, Bob discusses how his contrarian approach has thrived amid market inefficiencies, especially in cyclical industries and under-the-radar public firms. He breaks down key investments, including Builders FirstSource and Tidewater, and explains why capital allocation, aligned incentives, and patience are critical to long-term success. He also addresses private equity, passive investing, and how AI might affect the future of both business operations and markets — and much more!   Key Topics: Introduction (0:00) Bob's upbringing and early exposure to entrepreneurship (2:09) How auditing Tweedy, Browne sparked Bob's interest in value investing (4:17) Learning through Tony Pustorino and practical accounting (4:32) Early influences from Walter Schloss, Joe Reilly, and Tweedy, Browne (5:39) Experience working with Mario Gabelli (6:57) Founding Robotti & Company and the original value edge (8:54) Explaining pink sheet stocks and early investment strategies (10:00) Philosophy on intrinsic value and discounted investments (14:31) Mispricings from passive investing and cyclical businesses (16:24) Views on private equity vs. public markets (19:27) Being a generalist with deep knowledge in housing and energy (21:45) Simplified valuation approach and the Builders FirstSource case (23:41) Portfolio construction, sizing, and turnover explained (28:58) Maintaining a patient capital base (33:38) The Tidewater investment: thesis, board involvement, and strategy (36:42) Capital allocation philosophy: buybacks vs. dividends (49:08) Executive incentives and importance of management quality (51:02) How Robotti sees AI impacting business and investing (53:13) Thoughts on traditional business education and tangible assets (57:13) Geopolitical risks, China's influence, and global economic concerns (58:03) And much more! Mentioned in this Episode: Robotti & Company Advisors Tweedy, Browne Gabelli & Company Builders FirstSource Tidewater Inc. Amrep Corporation Pulse Seismic Inc. Museum of American Finance U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) Lucadia National Third Avenue Value Canadian Natural Resources Think Again by Adam Grant Grit by Angela Duckworth Teaming by Amy Edmondson Quit by Annie Duke   Thanks for Listening! Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at valueinvesting@gsb.columbia.edu. Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!
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  Richard Brekka - From Venture to Secondaries: Richard Brekka on Illiquid Market Advantages 07.11.2025 1h 3min

  In this episode, host Tano Santos sits down with Richard Brekka, founder and managing partner of Second Alpha, to examine the lesser-known world of secondary investing in private technology companies. With decades of experience—from venture capital to secondary transactions—Richard shares his journey through private equity at Chase and CIBC, his role in building and reviving companies like Gomez Inc., and how that led him to identify a unique investment niche. He explains the mechanics of sourcing deals in illiquid markets, using data and AI to surface hidden gems, and the psychology of getting deals done. The discussion also explores valuations, exits, and policy implications of private market access for 401(k) investors, plus the impact of AI on business fundamentals and much more! Key Topics: ● Richard's early exposure to entrepreneurship and finance (3:29) ● Lessons from Arthur Laffer and University of Chicago MBA experience (6:15) ● Early career in private equity at Chase and learning value investing (8:12) ● Starting Dolphin Equity Partners after CIBC and early challenges (14:06) ● The rise and fall—and rebirth—of Gomez Inc. (17:18) ● Discovering secondary investing through Gomez's cap table (23:58) ● The founding and investment strategy of Second Alpha (26:29) ● Understanding the structure and dynamics of the secondary market (30:21) ● How Second Alpha sources deals and builds its data pipeline (35:49) ● The process of deal execution and managing rights of refusal (41:11) ● Case study: Prove Identity and growth through secondaries (52:29) ● Thoughts on liquidity, valuation, and 401(k) access to private markets (55:35) ● AI's impact on private companies and investment strategies (59:19) ● Book and podcast recommendations (1:01:34) ● And much more!   Mentioned in this Episode: ● Second Alpha ● Chase ● CIBC ● Gomez Inc. ● Prove Identity ● TouchCommerce ● Arthur Laffer ● Acquired (podcast) ● Warren Buffett – Berkshire Hathaway Annual Letters ● Berkshire Hathaway Annual Shareholder Letters   Thanks for Listening!   Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at valueinvesting@gsb.columbia.edu. Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!
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  Amit Wadhwaney - From Montreal to Moerus: Amit Wadhwaney's Deep Value Discipline 24.10.2025 1h 8min

  Amit Wadhwaney, founding partner and portfolio manager at Moerus Capital Management, joins hosts Tano Santos and Michael Mauboussin to trace his unorthodox journey from Bombay to Concordia to founding a value investing firm focused on the balance sheet. Along the way, he discusses his early exposure to Marty Whitman, lessons from Third Avenue's international expansion, and what led him to start Moerus.   Amit outlines the core of his investment approach—asset-based valuation, downside protection, and long-term holding periods—and explains why macro factors are typically disqualifiers, not drivers, in his process. He shares insights into portfolio construction, the role of currency risk, and how Moerus identified undervalued opportunities in places like Argentina, Japan, and the gold sector.   Key Topics: ● Growing up in India and finding investing through chemical engineering and economics (3:04) ● Discovering Marty Whitman via an obscure academic book on value investing (5:05) ● Lessons from selling real estate during Quebec's post-referendum panic (9:23) ● Joining MJ Whitman and watching Third Avenue evolve (11:12) ● Pioneering international value investing at Third Avenue (17:05) ● Founding Moerus Capital: philosophy, culture, and investment constraints (24:38) ● Moerus's asset-based investment framework (28:48) ● Managing macro risk and volatility through conservatism, not forecasts (30:41) ● Risk management: internal, external, and business model-related risks (33:00) ● Portfolio construction, position sizing, and concentration limits (46:39) ● Currency exposure and when to hedge (49:12) ● Case studies: Grupo Galicia and Despegar during Argentina's political shift (51:15) ● What keeps Amit up at night: industrial policy, broken immigration, and political gridlock (1:00:52) ● What Amit is reading—and what the Norton Simon Museum can teach investors (1:03:39) ● And much more!   Mentioned in this Episode: ● Moerus Capital Management ● Third Avenue Management ● MJ Whitman ● Marty Whitman ● Grupo Financiero Galicia ● Despegar.com ● Wheaton Precious Metals ● Major Drilling Group ● Dundee Corporation ● UniCredit ● LATAM Airlines ● Journal of Economic Literature ● Shubik and Whitman's The Aggressive Conservative Investor   Thanks for Listening!   Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at valueinvesting@gsb.columbia.edu. Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!
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  Bill Ackman - Evolving Investment Playbook, From MBIA to Moats 10.10.2025 56min

  Bill Ackman, founder and CEO of Pershing Square Capital Management, joins hosts Michael Mauboussin and Tano Santos to trace the arc of his investing journey—from his early days in real estate finance to founding Gotham Partners and eventually building Pershing Square into a $30 billion firm. Bill discusses formative moments that shaped his thinking, including his controversial early short of MBIA, the painful lessons of the Valeant episode, and the transformation brought about by adopting a permanent capital structure. He also unpacks his investment philosophy, the importance of durability and moats, and his team's approach to risk, activism, and concentrated investing. Along the way, Bill offers thoughts on AI, higher education, and what excites—and concerns—him about the future — and much more!      Key Topics:   ● Bill's near-death experience and early independence (2:19)  ● Skills learned at Harvard and lessons from rowing and sales (3:50)  ● Real estate foundation and Gotham Partners launch (6:44)  ● Early credit derivative bet and discovery of MBIA issues (12:23)  ● Formation and lessons from Pershing Square (19:02)  ● The three eras of Pershing Square and the importance of permanent capital (21:03)  ● Bill's investment philosophy and focus on durable moats (27:31)  ● Thoughts on capital-light, network-effect businesses (33:58)  ● How Pershing Square handles portfolio concentration and risk (36:30)  ● Impact of AI and the resilience of activist investing (40:17)  ● Student pitch trends and what makes a strong investment case (43:25)  ● What Pershing looks for when hiring investment professionals (47:29)  ● What worries and excites Bill today (51:34)  ● Recommended reading and X as a research tool (54:34)  ● And much more!    Mentioned in this Episode:  ● Pershing Square Capital Management  ● Gotham Partners  ● MBIA Inc.  ● Farmer Mac  ● Herbalife  ● Valeant Pharmaceuticals  ● General Growth Properties  ● Hilton Worldwide  ● Uber Technologies  ● Universal Music Group  ● Brookfield Asset Management    ● The Financial History of Berkshire Hathaway by Adam Mead  ● The Compounders: Lessons from 50+ Stories of Business Growth by Travis Wiedower      Thanks for Listening!    Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at valueinvesting@gsb.columbia.edu.    Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more! 
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  Kristin Gilbertson - Risk, Resilience, and Returns 29.08.2025 50min

  In this episode, hosts Tano Santos and Michael Mauboussin speak with Kristin Gilbertson, CIO of Access Industries and former CIO of the University of Pennsylvania Endowment. Kristin shares her early interest in economic development and her unique journey through the World Bank, Stanford Management Company, and into managing a major university endowment. She outlines how risk awareness and preparation helped her successfully lead through the 2008 financial crisis and gives detailed insights into asset allocation, manager selection, and the nuances of family office investing. Kristin also discusses career strategies for students interested in the endowment and wealth management space and much more!     Key Topics: ● Kristin's early life and interest in economics (3:33)  ● Influential professors and academic inspirations at Harvard (4:10)  ● Experience at the World Bank and the Young Professionals Program (10:09)  ● Joining Stanford Management Company and portfolio repositioning (15:05)  ● Moving to Penn and addressing portfolio gaps and alumni engagement (18:26)  ● The responsibilities and structure of a university CIO role (22:00)  ● Building Penn's VC exposure and getting into Sequoia (26:20)  ● Kristin's investment philosophy and fixed asset allocations (34:34)  ● Kristin's role at Access Industries and managing a family office (38:16)  ● Differences between endowments and family offices (41:10)  ● Concerns about mega-cap stock valuations and ETF opportunities (46:34)  ● And much more!    Mentioned in this Episode: ● Pioneering Portfolio Management by David Swensen   Thanks for Listening!   Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at valueinvesting@gsb.columbia.edu.   Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!
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  Seth Klarman - Contrarian Investing, Discipline, and Building Baupost 01.08.2025 55min

  In this episode, host Michael Mauboussin sits down with Seth Klarman, CEO and portfolio manager of The Baupost Group. One of the most influential practitioners of value investing, Seth shares his formative stories — from arbitraging coins as a kid to launching Baupost in 1982 — and reflects on his decades-long investment philosophy. They explore timeless principles of market inefficiencies, the importance of temperament, specialization versus generalization, the role of patient capital, and the challenges and opportunities ahead for investors in today's world. Seth also opens up about technology trends like AI, the evolving market structure, and the enduring lessons from Graham & Dodd — and much more!   Key Topics: Seth's early entrepreneurial ventures and coin arbitrage (2:10) Lessons from working at Mutual Shares with Max Heine and Michael Price (4:12) Starting Baupost and managing the founding families' wealth (10:53) Core principles behind value investing and market inefficiencies (13:06) The impact of indexing, ETFs, and passive investing trends (16:42) Generalists vs. specialists in investment research (19:06) How Baupost evaluates opportunities across asset classes (21:13) Why value investing combines a contrarian streak with a calculator (23:51) The importance of meeting management teams and assessing intent (26:44) Building and educating a long-term oriented client base (29:06) Managing behavioral biases and fostering the right temperament (31:21) Current market outlook and where Baupost sees value today (34:03) How AI is changing research and efficiency at Baupost (36:54) Broader applications of the "Moneyball" mindset (40:13) The difference between an analyst and a portfolio manager (44:01) Seth's views on risk, business ethics, and business education (45:50) What worries Seth about the future — and what excites him (48:11) Book recommendations from Seth Klarman (51:42) And much more!   Mentioned in this Episode: Margin of Safety by Seth Klarman Security Analysis by Benjamin Graham & David Dodd (Seventh Edition) Moneyball by Michael Lewis Lost & Found by Kathryn Schulz Being Wrong by Kathryn Schulz The Light Eaters by Zoë Schlanger   Thanks for Listening!   Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at valueinvesting@gsb.columbia.edu. Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!
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  Kent Daniel — From Physics to Finance: Exploring Market Inefficiencies 25.07.2025 1h 11min

  In this episode of Value Investing with Legends, Tano Santos and Michael Mauboussin sit down with Kent Daniel, Professor of Finance at Columbia Business School, to discuss his journey from physics at Caltech to leading research in behavioral finance and quantitative investing. Kent shares insights from his academic work and his years at Goldman Sachs, including his critiques of the Fama-French model, the role of intangible information in asset prices, and the implications of short selling constraints. The conversation spans decades of market evolution, empirical challenges, and the behavioral patterns that continue to shape financial theory and practice.     Key Topics: ● Introduction by Tano Santos and Michael Mauboussin (0:00) ● Introduction of guest Kent Daniel and his academic and professional background (0:48) ● Kent shares his early life, education at Caltech, and influences like Richard Feynman (3:31) ● Transition from physics to finance, MBA at UCLA, and entry into PhD program (5:46) ● Kent's dissertation on time variation in asset returns and statistical test power (8:02) ● Discussion on behavioral vs. rational explanations for return predictability (11:51) ● Kent's time at University of Chicago during the rise of behavioral finance (15:18) ● Challenge to the Fama-French three-factor model with characteristics vs. covariances paper (22:40) ● Behavioral finance classic: Overreaction and underreaction explained through psychology (27:31) ● Discussion on tangible vs. intangible information in financial markets (36:04) ● Current research on short selling, borrow costs, and market inefficiencies (41:40) ● Kent's experience at Goldman Sachs and practical application of academic research (50:02) ● Reflections on the quant crisis and build-up of leverage pre-2008 (56:26) ● Discussion on value investing post-2008 and limitations of book-to-market (57:00) ● Kent's nuanced view on market efficiency and the role of frictions (1:02:16) ● Views on indexing, ETFs, and financial market design (1:06:11)  ● Kent shares what excites and worries him about the future of markets (1:08:09) ● Kent's current reading and listening recommendations (1:10:07) And much more!   Thanks for Listening!   Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at valueinvesting@gsb.columbia.edu.   Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!
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  Cliff Asness — Quant Origins, Value Crashes, and Market Inefficiencies 11.07.2025 1h 25min

  In this episode, Cliff Asness joins Tano Santos and Michael Mauboussin for a conversation that spans the evolution of quantitative investing, lessons from market crises, and the enduring tension between risk and behavioral explanations in finance. From his formative years at the University of Chicago under Gene Fama to building AQR into a quant powerhouse, Cliff reflects candidly on theory, performance, and how markets may have become less efficient in recent years.   Key Topics: Tano and Michael return from sabbatical and reflect on recent academic and classroom experiences (0:00) Overview of Cliff's career and contributions to quant investing and academic finance (1:13) Cliff recounts his underachiever label, how standardized tests changed his path, and why he chose Penn's M&T program (2:54) How Cliff's coding work for Andy Lo inspired his academic path and led to Chicago (5:03) A breakdown of the 1992 and 1993 Fama-French papers, and how they reshaped asset pricing (8:45) Cliff discusses the theoretical divide between Fama and Thaler and his own evolution toward a behavioral perspective (13:08) Memories of presenting momentum to Fama, intellectual honesty, and voice-shaking dissertation defenses (17:13) Why Cliff chose Goldman over academia, his role in developing Goldman's quant group, and the influence of LTCM (22:00) Launching in August 1998 during the Russia default; early drawdowns and lessons from the tech bubble (27:50) How quant signals hold up, risks of crowding, and the difference between short-term and long-term capacity (34:32) Momentum held, but value strategies collapsed. How AQR dealt with long underperformance (43:31) Valuation starting points can obscure long-term performance; recent decades viewed in proper context (49:22) Cliff's provocative "Less Efficient Market Hypothesis" and three key drivers: indexing, interest rates, and social media (50:54) Is passive investing weakening price discovery? Reflections on Sharp's arithmetic and Grossman-Stiglitz (54:12) How echo chambers and meme stocks challenge traditional models of rational price formation (58:28) Why companies aren't issuing more equity despite sky-high valuations, and the fading role of smart capital allocators (1:00:46)And much more! Thanks for Listening!   Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at valueinvesting@gsb.columbia.edu. Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!
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  Phil Ruvinsky - Sustainable Competitive Advantages in Technology 12.07.2024 37min

  In this episode, Michael Mauboussin, adjunct professor at Columbia Business School, hosts Phil Ruvinsky, Managing Director and Head of the Fundamental U.S. Growth Team at BlackRock. With extensive experience in the investment industry, Phil shares his journey from law to finance, discusses his investment philosophy, and explains the importance of sustainable competitive advantages. The conversation explores the evaluation of management, the impact of AI on the competitive landscape, and the nuances of portfolio construction. Phil also highlights the role of macroeconomic factors and regulatory changes in investment decisions, shares his thoughts on the future of active management in an increasingly indexed market, and much more! Key Topics: Introduction to Phil's career and background (1:06) Transition from law to investment and early career challenges (2:15) Importance of business school in shaping investment philosophy (3:47) Recommended books for new team members (4:22) Utilizing competitive strategy analysis in investment decisions (5:50) Unique characteristics of technology, media, and telecom sectors (7:03) Analysis of return on invested capital in different business models (9:10) Approaches to valuation and use of different tools (10:25) Evaluating the importance of management in investment decisions (12:15) Impact of AI and generative AI on the competitive landscape (14:17) Application of AI in the investment process (18:07) Trends in market concentration and their implications (20:26) Effects of indexing and rules-based investing on markets (23:27) Corporate governance, capital allocation, and executive compensation (25:35) Differences between being an analyst and a portfolio manager (28:02) Portfolio construction and risk management (29:38) Considering macroeconomic factors in investment decisions (32:00) Concerns and excitement about the future (34:21) Phil's book recommendations (35:58) And much more! Mentioned in this Episode:   Digital Empires: The Global Battle to Regulate Technology by Anu Bradford Expectations Investing: Reading Stock Prices for Better Returns by Michael Mauboussin Competition Demystified: A Radically Simplified Approach to Business Strategy by Bruce Greenwald The Platform Delusion: Who Wins and Who Loses in the Age of Tech Titans by Jonathan Nee Napoleon Unleashed: A History of the Revolutionary, Emperor, and Military Genius who Reshaped Europe and Defined Modern Leadership by Aeon History Meditations by Marcus Aurelius Thinking in Bets: Making Smarter Decisions When You Don't Have All the Facts by Annie Duke Thanks for Listening!   Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at valueinvesting@gsb.columbia.edu. Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!
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  Anu Bradford - EU Influence, Big Tech Challenges, and the Future of Digital Governance 28.06.2024 1h 1min

  In this episode, hosts Tano Santos and Michael Mauboussin speak with Anu Bradford, the Henry L. Moses Professor of Law and International Organization at Columbia Law School, to discuss the intricate dynamics of global technology regulation. Anu is recognized for her deep expertise in international economic law. Her pivotal books "The Brussels Effect" and "Digital Empires" explore how significant regions like the US, EU, and China shape technological standards worldwide. The conversation probes the complexities of regulating big tech companies across different legal and political landscapes, highlighting the significant influence of European regulations on global markets. She also touches on the impact of regulatory practices on innovation, the challenges of enforcing extensive digital laws, and the future trajectory of global tech governance. This episode offers a comprehensive look into the power struggles and cooperative efforts that define international technology regulation and much more!     Key Topics: Introduction to Anu Bradford and her background (04:01) The unique position of the EU in global regulatory practices and its impacts (10:48) Detailed exploration of "The Brussels Effect" and its significance (12:56) Global market influence through regulatory strategies (17:02) The challenges and methodologies of tech regulation in the EU, US, and China (31:55) The role of data security and privacy in international relations and tech regulation (43:06) Future challenges and directions in global technology regulation (52:47) The preservation of liberal democracy in the digital age (54:51) Anu's book recommendations (58:56) And much more!   Mentioned in this Episode:   Digital Empires: The Global Battle to Regulate Technology by Anu Bradford The Brussels Effect: How the European Union Rules the World by Anu Bradford Chip War: The Quest to Dominate the World's Most Critical Technology by Chris Miller Underground Empire: How America Weaponized the World Economy by Henry Farrell and Abraham Newman High Wire: How China Regulates Big Tech and Governs Its Economy by Angela Huyue Zhang     Thanks for Listening!   Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at valueinvesting@gsb.columbia.edu.   Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!
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  Jonathan Knee - The Platform Delusion and the Intricacies of Digital and Analog Platforms 14.06.2024 1h 4min

  In today's discussion, Jonathan Knee, a distinguished advisor at Evercore Partners and Professor of Professional Practice of Media and Technology at Columbia Business School, explores the themes of his influential work, "The Platform Delusion." Jonathan's insights stem from a rich career in both the banking and academic sectors, bringing a nuanced perspective on digital versus analog platforms, competitive strategies, and the evolving landscape of technological advancements. The conversation uncovers the myths surrounding platform businesses and their impact on the economic principles that govern market dynamics. Jonathan also discusses the implications of regulatory frameworks and their intersection with business strategies in shaping industries and so much more!     Key Topics: Jonathan Knee's background and expertise in media and technology (01:40) The initial impetus behind writing "The Platform Delusion" and the misconceptions it addresses (13:14) Definitions and the real economic underpinnings of platform businesses (17:52) Competitive advantages and the robustness of network effects in digital platforms (35:02) Exploring the sustainability of various business models within tech giants like Meta and Google against emerging technologies (44:51) Insights into the strategic decisions that have fortified Apple's market position over the years (48:38) The impact of generative AI on existing business ecosystems and future market trends (55:36) Societal and technological transformations influencing today's business environment (58:55) Jonathan's book recommendations (01:01:30) And much more!   Mentioned in this Episode:   Evercore Partners Columbia Business School The Platform Delusion by Jonathan Knee Small Things Like These by Claire Keegan     Thanks for Listening!   Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at valueinvesting@gsb.columbia.edu.   Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!
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  James Bessen - Understanding the Tech Paradigm 31.05.2024 45min

  In the third episode of Season 10, hosts Tano Santos and Michael Mauboussin speak with James Bessen, Executive Director of the Technology and Policy Research Initiative at Boston University. Delving into the intricacies of technological advancement and market dynamics, Bessen shares his insights on the evolving landscape of competition and innovation. The discussion highlights the impact of proprietary software on industry disruption, exploring the significant shift from mass production to mass customization facilitated by technology. This episode not only provides a deep dive into the challenges and opportunities presented by the digital age but also prompts a reflection on the future of value investing in a tech-dominated world and so much more!     Key Topics: Welcome to Season 10 of Value Investing with Legends (0:20) Exploring the concept of barriers to entry in value investing (1:05) James Bessen discusses technology's economic impact (3:15) Analysis of the decline in economic disruption despite technological growth (5:10) Impact of proprietary software on industry stability and market concentration (6:35) Historical perspective on technology's influence on the economy (8:25) The role of proprietary software in shaping competitive dynamics (10:30) The transition from mass production to mass customization in retail (12:05) Walmart's evolution and strategy in retail sector dynamics (14:20) Discussion on the concept of skill premium and technological advancements (24:55) Artificial intelligence's influence on market dynamics and job skills (26:10) Examining the pace and implications of innovation diffusion (31:00) Regulatory challenges and tech dominance in the market (34:10) Concentration of innovation and its economic implications (36:20) James' book recommendations (43:10) And much more! Mentioned in this Episode:   The New Goliaths: How Corporations Use Software to Dominate Industries, Kill Innovation, and Undermine Regulation by James Bessen Learning by Doing: The Real Connection between Innovation, Wages, and Wealth by James Bessen The Great Reversal: How America Gave Up on Free Markets by Thomas Philippon The Lever of Riches: Technological Creativity and Economic Progress by Joel Mokyr Worldly Philosopher: The Odyssey of Albert O. Hirschman by Jeremy Adelman     Thanks for Listening!   Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at valueinvesting@gsb.columbia.edu.   Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!
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  Jan Hummel - Deep Diligence at Paradigm Capital 17.05.2024 48min

  In this episode, Tano Santos sits down with Jan Hummel, CIO of Paradigm Capital, revisiting his investment strategies and exploring the nuanced dimensions of risk management in the evolving European asset landscape. Jan discusses the foundational investment philosophy of Paradigm Capital, emphasizing risk minimization and the strategic deployment of assets across Europe. Key discussions pivot around the firm's selective investment criteria, focusing on companies in the small to mid-cap space and the significance of geographical and cultural nuances in their investment decisions. This conversation offers listeners insights into the subtleties of value investing, portfolio construction, the implications of geopolitical and economic dynamics on market opportunities, and so much more!   Key Topics: Introduction and background of Jan Hummel (0:37) Fundamental tenets of investment philosophy at Paradigm Capital (1:25) The impact of European market dynamics on investment strategies (7:25) Sourcing and valuing investment opportunities (9:47) Specific approaches to risk management and hedging strategies (22:23) Portfolio sizing and the decision-making process behind exiting investments (26:00) The role of geographical focus in Paradigm's investment strategy (29:12) Valuation techniques and practical applications in portfolio management (32:03) Trends and challenges in the European asset management industry (36:48) Macro-economic factors influencing market conditions and investment decisions (40:30) Prospects for growth and opportunities in the European financial landscape (45:17) Jan's book recommendations (46:06) And much more!   Mentioned in this Episode:   The Fiscal Theory of the Price Level by John Cochrane Paradigm Capital Columbia Business School   Thanks for Listening!   Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at valueinvesting@gsb.columbia.edu.   Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!