Sleeping Barber - A Marketing Podcast

Епизоди

• SBP 215: What Marketers Still Get Wrong. With Prof. Byron Sharp. 02.07.2026 26мин

  Byron Sharp — Professor of Marketing Science, Director of the Ehrenberg-Bass Institute at the University of Adelaide, and author of How Brands Grow — joins us at Cannes fresh off his sold-out Bassey Theatre session with Mark Ritson (a thousand people queued to get in).We dig into the five fundamentals he and Ritson agreed on and, more usefully, where the industry keeps getting them wrong. Byron explains why mental availability is not the same as brand awareness, why “search advertising” was a branding con that confuses purchase availability with memory-building, and why your media metrics are lying to you about reach.Along the way: the retail-media gold rush (sorry, Marriott Media), the AI hype bubble he expects to pop, why Elsa buried every other Disney princess, and the “non-artificial intelligence” agent Ehrenberg-Bass is building to stop corporate AI from breaking marketing’s laws of physics.A masterclass in thinking clearly about what your marketing money is actually supposed to do.Chapters:00:00 - Welcome: Byron Sharp at Cannes, and why impact (not academic prestige) drives Ehrenberg-Bass01:39 - The “two festivals” of Cannes: creativity awards vs. the serious fringe; the sold-out Ritson session04:03 - What’s being sold to marketers on the Croisette — and the retail-media land grab (Marriott Media)05:26 - Fragmentation, monetizing inventory, and why ~80% of this year’s AI vendors will be gone07:02 -The five things Byron agreed with Ritson on10:21 - #1 Mental availability — and the critical mistake of confusing it with awareness12:27 - “You overestimate your reach”: fleeting exposures and inflated media metrics14:19 - Why calling it “search advertising” was a disservice: purchase vs. mental availability15:27 - #2 Distinctive brand assets — why a logo checkbox isn’t enough17:46 - #3 Consistency — everyone agrees, nobody does it18:50 - The “big idea,” category entry points, and the Frozen/Elsa problem21:42 - Inside the How Brands Grow executive program23:46 - “Non-artificial intelligence”: the AI agent Ehrenberg-Bass is building25:20 - WrapLinks:Ehrenberg-Bass Institute: https://marketingscience.info/Professor Byron Sharp: https://www.linkedin.com/in/professorbyronsharp/How Brands Grow Live: https://marketingscience.info/learn-with-us/learning-opportunities/how-brands-grow-live-for-executives
• SBP 214: The Cannes Cut - The Gap Between Knowing and Doing: Day 5 Reflections. Featuring David Tiltman. 30.06.2026 58мин

  After five days, dozens of interviews, countless presentations, and conversations with some of marketing's brightest minds, one thing became clear:The future of marketing isn't about more technology. It's about better thinking.Throughout Cannes Lions 2026, we spoke with leaders from System1, WARC, Ehrenberg-Bass, Amazon Ads, Pinterest, and many of the industry's leading creative and effectiveness thinkers.In this final Cannes Cut, we reflect on the biggest themes that emerged throughout the week, including:Why simplicity continues to outperform complexityHow AI is settling into its rightful role as a tool—not a strategyThe growing danger of the efficiency trapWhy creativity remains one of the strongest commercial advantages a brand can buildThe return of long-term thinking, brand building, and strategic disciplineWe also sit down with David Tiltman (WARC) to discuss the Multiplier Effect Playbook, organisational barriers to effectiveness, why strategy is becoming more important than ever, and how marketers can bridge the gap between knowing what works and actually doing it.To close out the series, we head back onto the Croisette for one final edition of The Buzz Cut, featuring conversations with:Aaron Starkman (Rethink)Brendan Christie (Strategy Magazine)Ruxandra Papuc (AIN'T)Presented by System1.If you've enjoyed following our Cannes journey, thank you for joining us throughout the week.Chapters:00:00 - Introduction02:15 - Reflecting on an Incredible Week06:30 - Simplicity Wins11:05 - AI Finds Its Place16:10 - The Efficiency Trap21:45 - Why Brand Experience Matters26:10 - Is This the Best Time to Be a Marketer?30:30 - Interview: David Tiltman52:30 - Final Buzz Cut58:15 - Wrapping Up Cannes
• SBP 213: The Cannes Cut - Dull Ads Are A System, Not A Symptom. With Orlando Wood. 26.06.2026 53мин

  Day 4 on the Croisette, and the Cannes Festival of Creativity is in full swing. The Cannes Cut series is proudly presented by System1.Vanessa Chin, VP Marketing at System1, opens with a live field dispatch: which campaigns are actually scoring at Cannes, what the new Creator Effectiveness Playbook says about briefing for emotional impact, and why Dunkin' took gold while Kit Kat posted one of the highest out-of-home scores System1 has ever recorded.She also tackles the question the industry keeps circling - is AI the creative revolution everyone promised, or just a better production tool?Then the feature interview.Orlando Wood, Chief Creative Officer at System1, argues that dull advertising is structural, not incidental.Media fragmentation, measurement frameworks calibrated for the wrong school of advertising, and rules-based creative thinking all work against artistry before a single brief is written. Drawing on advertising history from Toulouse-Lautrec to Bernbach, and neuroscience from Ian McGilchrist, Orlando maps the war between showmanship and salesmanship - and explains why applying one school's measurement philosophy to the other destroys the work.The episode closes with the Buzz Cut: the sights and sounds from the attendees. Ty Heath from LinkedIn shared her perspective on life inside the B2B Lions jury room, WARC APAC's Rica Facundo on the three ceilings of social, Hannah Riberdhal from Brand Marketing Sweden on what this year's Cannes sounds like compared to four years ago, and two Young Lions competitors fresh off a 24-hour brief.Timestamps0:00 Opening - Vanessa Chin (System1) on Cannes testing, AI, and the Creator Effectiveness Playbook12:23 Feature interview - Orlando Wood on why dull advertising is structural, not a talent problem23:06 Fluent devices, coherence vs consistency, and the living brand33:08 The history of showmanship and salesmanship - and why creators may be bringing artistry back37:11 Measuring creative: why salesmanship measurement destroys showmanship work40:10 Post Pod debrief41:18 Buzz Cut - Ty Heath (LinkedIn B2B Institute), Rica Facundo (WARC APAC), Hannah (Brand Marketing Sweden), Young LionsReferencesSystem1 https://system1group.com/Advertising Principles Explained (course with Sir John Hegarty) https://advertisingprinciplesexplained.com/System1 Creative Dividend Report https://system1group.com/the-creative-dividendSystem1 Creator Effectiveness Playbook https://system1group.com/the-creator-effectiveness-playbookLemon: How the Advertising Brain Turned Sour - Orlando Wood (book) https://system1group.com/lemonThanks for keeping us in your ears, stay sharp everyone.
• SBP 212: The Cannes Cut - Brand Fit Beats Follower Count: Day 3 Reflections 24.06.2026 49мин

  Day three at Cannes Lions revealed something unexpected.Coming into the festival, many predicted AI would dominate every conversation.Instead, another topic has quietly taken centre stage:Creators.Not creator hype. Not influencer marketing. Creator effectiveness.Presented by System1, today's Cannes Cut explores one of the biggest conversations happening across the Croisette. Marc and Vassilis reflect on another packed day at Cannes, including the System1 Stars of the Show event featuring Andrew Tindall, Orlando Wood, Mark Ritson, Les Binet, Adam Morgan and many of the industry's leading thinkers.The featured interview is with Andrew Tindall, Chief Growth Officer at System1, who joins us to discuss the new Creator Effectiveness Playbook, developed in partnership with WPP and TikTok.One insight stood above the rest:Most creator campaigns aren't driving meaningful brand growth. A small "brilliant minority" are responsible for the majority of the impact.The conversation has evolved beyond follower counts and engagement rates. Instead, marketers are asking better questions:Does this creator genuinely fit the brand?How do creators build memory, not just engagement?Why does emotion still outperform optimisation?What role do distinctive brand assets play in creator content?And how do we stop treating creator marketing like a casino?We also bring back another edition of The Buzz Cut, hearing directly from marketers around the world, including Lauren Anderson (Amazon Ads), David Tiltman (WARC), Reno from Nikkei, and Vinnie from Leo São Paulo, sharing what's capturing their attention halfway through Cannes.In this episode:Highlights from System1's Stars of the ShowAndrew Tindall on the Creator Effectiveness PlaybookWhy only a small minority of creator campaigns drive real growthWhy brand fit matters more than follower countPinterest's positioning around quality engagementWhy AI feels more like infrastructure than the headline storyThe latest perspectives from marketers across the CroisetteThe rosé can wait. Our questions can't.Chapters00:00 Introduction03:04 Insights from System1's Baoli Event05:54 The Role of Creators in Sports09:01 Pinterest's Marketing Strategy and Insights11:50 The Current State of Creative Effectiveness14:55 The Importance of Emotion in Advertising18:11 The Evolving Role of Content Creators21:03 Key Findings from the Creator Effectiveness Playbook25:21 The Role of Emotion in Branding29:08 Effective Briefing for Creators30:34 Understanding Distinctive Brand Assets32:17 Leveraging Social Devices in Marketing35:08 Insights from Amazon's Brand Activation38:35 The Evolution of Cannes Lions Festival43:11 Creative Impact and Effectiveness47:13 The Value of Attending Cannes Lions
• SBP 211: The Cannes Cut - Creators, Commerce, and Amazon's Canvas: Day 2 Reflections 23.06.2026 39мин

  This episode has been presented by System1.Everyone talks about the full funnel. Amazon has actually built it. Day 2 of the Sleeping Barber's Cannes Cut takes Marc and V from the Amazon port activation, a full marina-length brand experience housing a cafe, a speakeasy, 30 meeting rooms, and a stage headlined by Shaquille O'Neal and Oprah, to a sit-down interview with Lauren Anderson, US Head of the Brand Innovation Lab.Lauren explains what the 'canvas' framing actually means for advertisers: not a menu of placements to check, but a working-backwards discipline from brand objectives through to seamless customer handoffs. The Hellman's 'Mayo for a Melody' campaign, extending the Andy Sandberg Super Bowl spot into a Fire TV karaoke experience with QR-enabled purchase, is the clearest case study of how awareness converts to action without the usual clunky hand-off between platform teams.The conversation also covers creator partnerships (co-collaborators, not billboards), the messy middle of measurement (experiential value is real but long-horizon), and why the Brand Innovation Lab's ethos is restraint: not throwing every part of the canvas at a brief, but identifying what's most fit for purpose.Buzz Cut guests from the catamaran round out the episode: Esther Benzi (CMA President), Zach Grossman (Director of Sales, TikTok Canada), Neil Mohan of ClickHealth, and Jeanette from Hashtag Paid, all weighing in on creativity, measurement, and what it actually feels like when AI takes the backseat at Cannes.Chapters00:00 - Cannes 2025, another look05:13 - Amazon's Brand Activation at Cannes10:03 - bInsights from the Boat: Networking and Learning11:43 - Lauren Anderson and The Role of the Brand Innovation Lab19:59 - Campaigns that Connect: Hellman's and More31:36 - Esther Benzie32:52 - Zack Grossman34:26 - Neil Mohan37:17 - Jeanette Rees
• SBP 210: The Cannes Cut - Creativity That Works: Cannes Day 1 Reflections 22.06.2026 40мин

  This episode has been presented by System1.What happens when Byron Sharp, Mark Ritson, System1, creators, AI, and Cannes Lions all collide on Day One?In the first edition of our Cannes Cut series, presented by System1, Marc and V unpack the biggest themes emerging from Cannes Lions 2026, including why creativity is increasingly being judged through the lens of effectiveness, why marketers may be spreading budgets too thin, and why some of the industry's biggest thinkers are converging on a surprisingly small set of principles.Along the way, the guys sit down with Vanessa Chin (SVP Marketing, System1) to discuss creativity, creators, celebrities, emotional advertising, AI-generated campaigns, and why happiness and humour continue to outperform serious purpose-driven work.They also hit the Croisette to capture perspectives from attendees, founders, creators, publishers, and marketers about the trends shaping Cannes this year.In this episode:Why effectiveness has become the dominant conversation at CannesDavid Tiltman's "Fewer, Bigger, Better" frameworkThe five things Byron Sharp and Mark Ritson agree onMental availability and why awareness isn't enoughDistinctive brand assets and why logos alone don't cut itWhy sophisticated mass marketing still mattersThe case against purpose-led marketingHow creators are becoming marketing "super touchpoints"Why funny advertising continues to outperform serious advertisingThe role AI is actually playing in modern creative developmentSights and sounds from the CroisettePlus: exclusive insights from Vanessa Chin and conversations with marketers attending Cannes from around the world.The Rosé can wait. The questions can't.In this episode:Why effectiveness has become the dominant conversation at CannesDavid Tiltman and WARC's "Fewer, Bigger, Better" frameworkThe five things Byron Sharp and Mark Ritson agree onMental availability and why awareness isn't enoughDistinctive brand assets and why logos alone don't cut itWhy sophisticated mass marketing still mattersThe case against purpose-led marketingHow creators are becoming marketing "super touchpoints"Why funny advertising continues to outperform serious advertisingThe role AI is actually playing in modern creative developmentSights and sounds from the CroisetteThe Rosé can wait. The questions can't.Chapters00:00 - Welcome to Cannes: The Excitement Begins02:53 - Insights from Industry Leaders06:06 - The Importance of Mental Availability08:52 - Distinctive Brand Assets and Their Impact12:09 - The Shift from Purpose to Emotion in Advertising14:59 - The Role of Celebrities in Marketing17:58 - The Power of Humour in Campaigns20:52 - The Future of Creators in Advertising23:48 - Final Thoughts and Key Takeaways27:25 - Conor Byrne, Exploring AI's Human Element30:03 - Alex, Insights from AI Central Media32:49 - Rachel Higgins, Connecting and Gaining Inspiration35:38 - Mariam Bebiashvili, Marketing Strategies and AI Integration
• SBP 209: The Sharp Cut - Buyers Don't Move in Straight Lines 18.06.2026 20мин

  What if the biggest problem in marketing isn't your message, your targeting, or your budget? What if it's the map you're using?For more than a century, marketers have relied on funnels, customer journeys, and pipeline stages to explain how people buy.The problem?People don't move in straight lines.In this Sharp Cut, Marc and Vassilis unpack why buying behaviour looks far more like a messy search pattern than a carefully planned journey. Drawing on research from Ehrenberg-Bass, Google, WPP, Oxford, James Hankins, Gartner, Bain, and the LinkedIn B2B Institute, they explore why most consumer decisions are made before shopping begins and why so many B2B deals stall after the buying process has already started.Along the way, they tackle the real purpose of the funnel, the limits of customer journey mapping, the hidden role of buying committees, and why the pipeline may be better at reporting decisions than helping people make them.In this episode:Why the traditional funnel continues to surviveWhat the Consumer Decision Journey got right—and wrongThe surprising finding that 84% of purchases favor brands consumers already lean towardWhy "good enough" beats "best" more often than marketers realizeThe difference between consumer and B2B buying behaviorHow buying committees create friction inside organizationsWhy 40-60% of qualified B2B deals end in no decisionThe pipeline's real purposeWhy probability may be a better model than journeysThe funnel is a useful reporting tool. It just isn't a very good theory of human behaviour.Takeaways:Success in marketing is often misrepresented as a straight line.The consumer decision journey is more complex than traditional models suggest.Buyers often choose brands they are already leaning towards before shopping.The funnel oversimplifies the buying process, leading to ineffective strategies.Fear of making the wrong decision can paralyze B2B buyers.Satisficing is a common behavior where buyers settle for 'good enough'.Mental and physical availability are crucial for influencing buyer decisions.The traditional funnel model is outdated and needs to be rethought.Understanding buyer behavior requires acknowledging the chaos of the decision-making process.Marketers should focus on building frameworks based on real consumer behavior rather than idealized models.Chapters:Chapters00:00 - Introduction02:48 - The Complexity of the Consumer Decision Journey06:06 - The Limitations of Traditional Marketing Models08:49 - Understanding Buyer Behavior and Decision-Making11:59 - Rethinking the Marketing Funnel14:57 - The Role of Fear in B2B Buying Decisions17:53 - Building a Better Marketing Framework
• SBP 208: The Barber's Brief - The Rosé Can Wait. Our Questions Cant + Special Announcement 16.06.2026 23мин

  For years, Cannes Lions has been the home of creativity. This year, it feels like effectiveness is taking center stage.In this special Cannes preview edition of The Barber's Brief, Marc and Vassilis discuss what they're most excited to explore at Cannes Lions 2026.From the surprising reunion of Mark Ritson and Byron Sharp, to the growing influence of effectiveness research, creator marketing, AI, and measurement, this conversation explores the biggest questions facing modern marketers.The duo also shares details about their partnership with System1 and previews the conversations they'll be recording throughout the week with Orlando Wood, Andrew Tindall, Vanessa Chin, and many others.Plus, they break down one of last year's most creative Cannes winners: Hyundai's Night Fishing.In this episode:Why the Ritson & Sharp reunion mattersCan creativity still drive disproportionate growth?What happens to creativity in an AI-driven world?Are marketers measuring the wrong things?The difference between Cannes' Palais and the FringeWhat System1 is teaching marketers about effectivenessHyundai's Cannes-winning film experiment, Night FishingOh and our theme this year? The rosé can wait. The questions can't.Enjoy the episode.Chapters00:00 - The Excitement of Cannes Lions 202302:57 - The Power of Effectiveness in Marketing05:55 - Creativity vs. AI in Advertising09:10 - The Importance of Measurement in Marketing11:59 - Exploring the Cannes Fringe Festival15:07 - Ad of the week: Hyundai's Night Fishing Campaign20:07 - Looking Ahead: Customer JourneysAd of the weekTitle: Night Fishing Hyundai - 2025 Cannes Lions Grand Prix Winner Entertainment Link: https://www.innocean.com/ww-en/work/recent/944
• SBP 207: The PostPod - Lessons from Karen Pearce: Great Creative shouldn’t feel scary 11.06.2026 27мин

  Most marketers think great creative comes from better talent. Karen Pearce made a different case.In this Post Pod discussion, Marc and Vassilis reflect on their conversation with Karen Pearce, Partner at Rethink and one of the leaders behind some of the most awarded creative work in the world.The discussion explores why creativity often dies inside organizations before it ever reaches the market, how criticism can become a cultural trap, and why the best creative teams focus on finding sparks rather than flaws.They unpack Rethink's CRAFTS framework, the importance of psychological safety, the role of strong client-agency relationships, and why great ideas should start with human truths rather than channels.If you've ever wondered why some organizations consistently produce breakthrough work while others struggle to move beyond safe ideas, this conversation is for you.In this episode:Why creativity shouldn't feel scaryThe danger of rewarding criticism over contributionHow Rethink's CRAFTS framework shapes better ideasWhy relationships matter more than process aloneThe importance of psychological safety in creative teamsWhy ideas should come before channelsThe hidden systems behind award-winning creative workChapters00:00 - Introduction01:42 - Rethinking Marketing Culture04:21 - The Role of Creativity in Marketing06:58 - The Importance of Effective Creative09:53 - Expanding Creative Horizons11:33 - The Value of Independence in Agencies13:39 - Building Strong Client Relationships16:40 - Harnessing Human Truths for Creativity19:24 - Frameworks for Creative Success22:30 The Significance of Briefs in Marketing24:46 Consistency and Success in Creative Work
• SBP 206: Great Creative Shouldn't Feel Scary. Karen Pearce, Rethink. 09.06.2026 51мин

  Most people assume award-winning creative work is a high-wire act: brilliant, risky, and impossible to repeat. Karen Pearce of Rethink makes the opposite case. Fresh off Ad Age's 2026 Agency of the Year and ADWEEK's 2025 Independent Agency of the Year, and as the most-awarded independent agency in the world last year, Rethink keeps producing famous, business-moving work on purpose.Recorded as a Cannes Lions lead-up, this conversation gets into the machinery behind the run. Karen explains why independence lets Rethink protect creative standards instead of chasing scale, why the client's real job is finding sparks rather than poking holes, and how the CRAFTS framework gives a whole agency a shared language for what good looks like. Karen walks us through the Heinz philosophy that every ad is a product ad, the go-then-grow approach that turns big swings into low-risk reps, and why, going into Cannes, she expects a reclaiming of human craft in an AI-flooded market.The through-line: bold creative shouldn't feel scary. Build the right system and the right partnership, and the work that wins awards is the same work that drives the business.Timestamps00:00 Find the sparks, not the holes02:08 What's behind the run: independence and the receipts05:48 Why great creative shouldn't feel scary09:12 Builders vs hole-pokers: the client's real job14:27 Famous brands outperform business metrics19:17 AI, human craft, and the IKEA sleep talkers22:42 CRAFTS: a shared language for great work30:57 Heinz: every ad is a product ad36:24 Go then grow: getting your reps in44:17 Idea first: when media becomes the creativeReferencesRethink: rethinkideas.comKaren Pearce: LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/karengpearce/Rethink's Book: The Business of Creativity Referenced campaigns: IKEA “U Up” and IKEA organizer / Skittles out-of-home; Heinz “Looks Familiar” and the keystone ketchup pouch; Destination Canada; Coinbase craft-led film; Epitaph “garbage media” dumpster billboardsAnthropic “Keep Thinking” campaign for Claude, by Mother Awards context: Ad Age 2026 Agency of the Year
• SBP 205: The Sharp Cut - Busy Is Where Strategy Goes to Die 04.06.2026 33мин

  What if the biggest threat to your strategy isn't a competitor, a budget cut, or AI?What if it's busyness?In this Sharp Cut, Marc Binkley and Vassilis Douros tackle one of marketing and leadership's biggest comfort blankets: the belief that activity equals progress.Drawing on the work of Roger Martin, Richard Rumelt, Michael Porter, Henry Mintzberg, and decades of research in strategy, psychology, and organizational behaviour, they explore why so many companies mistake plans, initiatives, and corporate buzzwords for actual strategy.The conversation unpacks:Why strategy is fundamentally a series of choicesHow organizations become trapped in the illusion of progressWhy indecision is often the most common strategic outcomeThe hidden cost of strategic ambiguityWhat B2B buying behaviour can teach us about leadershipWhy marketing departments produce more content than ever while achieving less impactHow AI accelerates both good strategy and bad strategyThree practical actions leaders can take immediately to make better strategic decisionsThis episode is ultimately about one uncomfortable truth:Most organizations don't have a strategy problem.They have a choice problem.And until they're willing to make difficult choices, strategy remains little more than activity wearing a strategy costume.TakeawaysMost strategies presented are often just lists of initiatives.Real strategy involves making explicit choices and trade-offs.Indecision can be a strategy, but it's not an effective one.Ambiguity can be useful short-term but harmful long-term.Fluffy language often indicates a lack of real strategy.Marketing and strategy should be aligned for effectiveness.The say-do gap reflects a disconnect in organizational goals.AI can exacerbate existing strategic issues if not managed properly.Effective strategy requires clear, actionable frameworks.Leaders must be willing to make specific, falsifiable choices.Chapters00:00 - The Illusion of Strategy03:13 - Defining Real Strategy05:49 - The Challenge of Decision-Making08:49 - Indecision as a Strategy11:59 - The Role of Ambiguity in Strategy14:50 - The Cost of Fluffy Language17:48 - Marketing and Strategy Alignment21:04 - The Say-Do Gap in Organizations23:52 - The Impact of AI on Strategy27:03 - Practical Steps for Effective StrategyReferencesCappellaro, G., Compagni, A., & Vaara, E. (2021). Maintaining strategic ambiguity for protection: Struggles over opacity, equivocality, and absurdity around the Sicilian Mafia. Academy of Management Journal, 64(1), 1–37.Dixon, M., & McKenna, T. (2022). The JOLT effect: How high performers overcome customer indecision. Portfolio.Drucker, P. F. (1967). The effective executive. Harper & Row.Eisenberg, E. M. (1984). Ambiguity as strategy in organizational communication. Communication Monographs, 51(3), 227–242.Hurman, J. (2024). The case for creative effectiveness. Cannes Lions / WARC.Kantar. (2024). How optimized touchpoint planning drives brand growth. Kantar Insights.Kapero. (2024). Channels and content: The state of the marketing department. Kapero Management Consultants.Kim, W. C., & Mauborgne, R. (2005). Blue ocean strategy: How to create uncontested market space and make the competition irrelevant. Harvard Business Review Press.Lafley, A. G., & Martin, R. L. (2013). Playing to win: How strategy really works. Harvard Business Review Press.Martin, R. L. (2020, October 5). The role of management systems in strategy. Roger Martin Substack. https://rogerlmartin.substack.comMartin, R. L. (2021, April 19). It's time to accept that marketing and strategy are one discipline. Medium. https://rogermartin.medium.comMartin, R. L. (2023, January 23). Being ‘too busy’ means your personal strategy sucks. Roger Martin Substack. https://rogerlmartin.substack.comMartin, R. L. (2026, March 16). Becoming an AI-augmented enterprise. Roger Martin Substack. https://rogerlmartin.substack.comMintzberg, H. (1973). The nature of managerial work. Harper & Row.Mintzberg, H. (1987). The strategy concept I: Five Ps for strategy. California Management Review, 30(1), 11–24.Morgan, A. (2024). The cost of dull. Cannes Lions / System1 Research.Porter, M. E. (1996). What is strategy? Harvard Business Review, 74(6), 61–78.PwC. (2025). 28th annual global CEO survey: Reinvention on the edge of tomorrow. PricewaterhouseCoopers.Rush. (1980). Freewill [Song]. On Permanent Waves. Anthem / Mercury Records. (Lyrics by Neil Peart.)Rumelt, R. P. (2011). Good strategy, bad strategy: The difference and why it matters. Crown Business.Strategic ambiguity systematic review (Authors, 2025). Strategic ambiguity: A systematic review, a typology and a dynamic capability view. Management Decision, 63(13), 123–xx. [Full citation TK once confirmed]Turner, M. (2024). How buyable B2B emotions unlock $19 trillion in category growth. LinkedIn / The B2B Institute.WARC. (2026). The Multiplier Playbook. WARC.Waytz, A. (2023, March-April). Beware a culture of busyness. Harvard Business Review.Wilson, T. D., Reinhard, D. A., Westgate, E. C., Gilbert, D. T., Ellerbeck, N., Hahn, C., Brown, C. L., & Shaked, A. (2014). Just think: The challenges of the disengaged mind. Science, 345(6192), 75–77.
• SBP 204: The Barber's Brief - AI Won’t Save Bad Marketing 02.06.2026 30мин

  Everyone is talking about AI replacing marketers.But what if the bigger problem isn't AI at all?In this episode of The Barber's Brief, Marc Binkley and Vassilis Douros explore a series of stories that challenge some of marketing's biggest assumptions.They unpack new research showing that most CMOs aren't worried about AI replacing jobs. They're worried about whether their teams have the skills to use it effectively. The conversation quickly expands into a deeper question: is marketing facing an AI skills gap, or are we simply exposing a fundamentals gap that has existed all along?The discussion also covers:Why only 40% of marketers believe advertising is understood in the C-suiteThe eight barriers preventing organizations from integrating brand and performanceWhat H&R Block learned when its marketing mix model became too slow to be usefulWhy marketers continue to retreat to last-click attribution during moments of uncertaintyThe rise of AI as an "Iron Man suit" that amplifies marketers rather than replaces themPlus, Ad of the Week goes to Brazilian beer brand Brahma for a brilliant World Cup campaign that transforms 24 years of disappointment into hope by reminding Brazilians not what happened, but who they are.This episode is ultimately about one question:Are we optimizing for the dashboard, or are we optimizing for the business?Key TakeawayThree-quarters of CMOs are concerned about the AI skills gap.AI is transforming marketing into a talent transformation.Understanding marketing fundamentals is crucial in the age of AI.The effectiveness say-do gap highlights a disconnect in marketing.Dynamic marketing mix modeling can enhance decision-making.Measurement should build confidence, not just justify spending.Less than half of marketing decisions are evidence-based.AI should be seen as a tool to enhance human capabilities.Brahma's campaign focuses on identity and belief, not just sales.Nostalgia can be a powerful motivator for consumer engagement.Chapters00:00 - Introduction01:12 - The AI Skills Gap in Marketing04:21 - Understanding Marketing Fundamentals07:47 - The Effectiveness Say-Do Gap11:54 - Dynamic Marketing Mix Modelling18:52 - The Future of AI in Marketing24:18 - Ad of the Week: Brahma's World Cup CampaignNews LinksThree-quarters of CMOs are grappling with AI skills gapLink: https://www.marketingweek.com/cmos-grappling-ai-skills-gap/WARC - The Multiplier Playbook for CMO’s looking to integrate brand & performanceLink: https://www.warc.com/en/the-multiplier-playbook-2026How H&R Block rethought attribution and modelling – and found more confidence in brand and business outcomesLink: https://www.mi-3.com.au/01-06-2026/when-marketing-mix-modelling-isnt-working-how-hr-block-rethought-attribution-andRobo-dogs, driverless cabs, AI perfume & the GTM singularity: Forrester B2B Summit 2026Link: https://www.thedrum.com/news/robo-dogs-driverless-cabs-ai-perfume-and-the-gtm-singularity-forrester-b2b-summit-2026
• SBP 203: The PostPod - Lessons from David Lui: Retail Isn't Dying. The Operating Model Is. 28.05.2026 15мин

  Most marketers talk about growth through media, performance, and digital channels.But what happens when growth comes from stores, people, and product instead?In this PostPod discussion, Marc and Vassilis reflect on their conversation with David, exploring the resurgence of iconic Canadian brand Kit and Ace and what modern marketers can learn from retail done properly.The conversation moves beyond dashboards and attribution models into something much more foundational:Product qualityCustomer promisePhysical availabilityBrand consistencyRetail experienceAnd the overlooked role of people in building a brandMarc and Vassilis unpack:Why physical retail still matters in a digital-first worldHow stores can function as media channelsThe relationship between product, place, and brand growthWhy scaling too aggressively can destroy a brandThe forgotten importance of the “place” P in marketingHow employee belief can become a marketing engineWhy some brands quietly disappear — and how they come back strongerThis episode is ultimately about something simple: Great brands are not built by advertising alone.They’re built through consistency across product, people, place, and promise.Chapters00:00 - Introduction03:00 - The Importance of Brand Promise05:55 - Strategic Growth and Market Positioning08:54 - Cultural Insights and Market Adaptation11:55 - The Role of People in Brand Success
• SBP 202: Retail Isn't Dying. The Operating Model Is. With David Lui 26.05.2026 51мин

  The Bay closed. Frank and Oak shuttered. Insolvencies have been climbing for years and the narrative everyone's repeating is that retail is in trouble. David Lui has a different read. Retail isn't dying. The operating model is. And the brands going under aren't the ones customers stopped loving, they're the ones whose people, product, and place stopped working.As CEO of Kit & Ace and co-founder of Unity Brands, David is doing almost the exact opposite of what you'd expect. He's buying beloved Canadian brands that almost didn't make it, and he's opening stores.In this episode, Marc and V sit down with David, a former colleague from their Canadian Tire days, to unpack what changes when a marketer crosses over to the P&L seat. We get into why every store opening is a bigger marketing spend than any ad campaign, the P's most marketers consistently underrate, what David learned scaling Korite into China through live-streaming when North America wasn't ready for it, why he calls his stores billboards, and the metric he ignored as a CMO that he refuses to take his eyes off as a CEO.If you've ever defended a budget, sat through a quarterly review, or wondered why a brand you loved quietly disappeared, this one's for you.Timestamps00:00 Cold open and intro: the Canadian retail paradox03:34 David's origin: Hong Kong factories and a counselor who got it wrong10:25 Canadian Tire days and the move to Mark's15:11 Selling Korite in China: live-streaming before North America was ready19:51 Kit & Ace's origin story and the DNA Unity Brands kept22:32 Building the Unity Brands portfolio: Tilley, Mastermind, and operational synergy28:02 From marketer to operator: the P&L reframe30:23 Why every store opening is the single largest marketing spend33:08 The P's marketers underrate: people and place35:06 The metric David ignored as a CMO and refuses to lose as a CEO40:34 Premium positioning and why fast fashion is fading43:36 What the next Canadian challenger brand has to get right46:24 Where Canadian retail is headedAbout DavidDavid Lui, CEO, Kit & Ace; Co-founder, Unity BrandsLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidymlui/Kit & Ace: kitandace.comTilley: tilley.comMastermind Toys: mastermindtoys.com
• SBP 201: The Sharp Cut - A Tale of Two Frequencies 20.05.2026 23мин

  For decades, marketers have debated one question:How much frequency is enough?But what if the industry has been arguing about two completely different things the entire time?In Part 2 of this Sharp Cut series, Marc Binkley and Vassilis Douros revisit the reach vs frequency debate after a wave of listener feedback challenged, refined, and strengthened the original episode. What emerges is a far more nuanced framework built around one critical distinction: burst frequency vs drip frequency.Drawing on work from Byron Sharp, Les Binet, Hermann Ebbinghaus, Stu Carr, Dale Harrison, Paul Hindle, and real-world incrementality testing from industry practitioners, this episode breaks down:Why frequency is not one thingThe difference between burst and drip frequencyHow memory actually works in advertisingWhy brands quietly lose effectiveness when they go darkThe hidden risks of streaming frequency capsWhy low frequency can appear more effective than it really isThe three real jobs of frequency: building, refreshing, and activatingWhy impressions and average frequency often mislead marketersHow last-click attribution continues to distort decision makingThe planning mistakes quietly wasting media budgets todayThis episode reframes one of marketing’s oldest debates through the lens of memory, incrementality, and effectiveness.Because the real question was never reach versus frequency.It was burst versus drip.Chapters00:00 - Introduction to Comfort Blankets in Advertising03:40 - Understanding Memory in Advertising08:05 - Building and Refreshing Memory Structures10:08 - The Impact of Streaming on Frequency13:50 - The Three Jobs of Advertising20:38 - Measurement Challenges in AdvertisingOriginal LinkedIn Post: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7453434962604691457/Special thanks to all those who inspired this follow-up episode:Stu Carr, Dale Harrison, Paul Hindle and Dennis A.ResourcesBinet, L. (2024, January 17). How advertising REALLY works [Video]. YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9EDJs3evCIBinet, L., & Davis, W. (2025, October). Go big or go home [Conference presentation]. IPA Effectiveness Conference, London, UK. https://ipa.co.uk/news/go-big-or-go-homeBinkley, M. (2025, August 7). 4Ps - Promotion: Why your customers say ads don't work on me. WARC. https://www.warc.com/en/article/4ps---promotionCarr, S. (2026, February 2). Why a frequency of 1 works, and why it isn't nearly enough. Mi3. https://www.mi-3.com.au/02-02-2026/why-frequency-1-works-and-why-it-isnt-nearly-enoughEbbinghaus, H. (1885). Uber das Gedachtnis: Untersuchungen zur experimentellen Psychologie. Duncker & Humblot.Gordon, B. R., Moakler, R., & Zettelmeyer, F. (2026). Predictive incrementality by experimentation (PIE) for ad measurement (NBER Working Paper). National Bureau of Economic Research.Harrison, D. W. (2022, November). Ad reach and frequency are not independent variables [LinkedIn post]. LinkedIn. https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dale-w-harrisonKlepek, M. (2025). Duplication of purchase and double jeopardy in social media markets [Working paper]. Silesian University of Technology.Krugman, H. E. (1972). Why three exposures may be enough. Journal of Advertising Research, 12(6), 11-14.Ritson, M. (2023, October 16). Consumers don't get tired of ads, only marketers do. Marketing Week. https://www.marketingweek.com/consumers-tired-ads-marketers/Sharp, B. (2010, September 4). Frequency and frequency: Something to watch out for [Blog post]. Marketing Science. https://byronsharp.wordpress.com/2010/09/04/frequency-and-frequency-something-to-watch-out-for/Sharp, B., Romaniuk, J., & Kennedy, E. (Eds.). (2021). Marketing: Theory, evidence, practice (3rd ed.). Oxford University Press.Taylor, J., Kennedy, R., & Sharp, B. (2009). Is once really enough? Making generalizations about advertising's convex sales response function. Journal of Advertising Research, 49(2), 198-200.Thomaz, F. (2024, October 15). Reach sufficiency and the missing dimension [Conference presentation]. SXSW Sydney, Sydney, Australia. Reported in Mi3. https://www.mi-3.com.au/15-10-2024/really-mediocre-outcomes
• SBP 200: The Barber's Brief - This is Two Hundred! 19.05.2026 33мин

  Most podcasts never make it past three episodes. This is episode 200.In this special 200th episode of The Barber’s Brief, Marc Binkley and Vassilis Douros reflect on five years of The Sleeping Barber Podcast while diving into some of the biggest marketing conversations shaping the industry right now.The episode explores why the laws of growth apply even to blood donation behaviour, how brands like McLaren Formula 1 Team are turning nostalgia into a competitive advantage, and why Chinese EV giants like BYD are shifting from performance marketing into long-term brand building.Marc and V also unpack:Why heavy buyers naturally moderate over timeThe hidden value sitting inside brand archivesWhy emotional continuity matters more than lived experienceThe tension between SEO, GEO, AI optimization, and originalityWhy AI-generated sameness may increase the value of human perspectiveHow modern marketing risks optimizing for defensibility instead of differentiationTo close the episode, Marc revisits one of his favourite ads of all time: a classic Adidas campaign featuring rugby legend Jonah Lomu — a reminder that surprise, storytelling, and emotional distinctiveness still matter.And finally, Marc and V take a moment to reflect on five years, 200 episodes, and the community that’s kept The Sleeping Barber Podcast growing along the way.Chapters00:00 Celebrating 200 Episodes: A Milestone in Podcasting02:01 Insights from Blood Donation Data: Understanding Donor Behaviour07:58 McLaren's Heritage Storytelling: Leveraging the Past for Growth13:54 Chinese EVs and Brand Building: A Shift in Strategy19:46 The Future of Search and SEO Fundamentals24:02 Celebrating Jonah Lomu: A Tribute to a Rugby Legend31:04 Upcoming Episodes and Community EngagementResources:Heavy Donors Behave Like Heavy Bleach Buyers - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenni-romaniuk-2746884/recent-activity/all/McLaren’s Fastest Asset Isn’t Technology. It’s Memory - https://www.thedrum.com/news/how-mclaren-s-60-year-archive-powers-its-marketing-machineChinese EVs Discover Brand-Building - https://www.thecurrent.com/marketing-strategy-chinese-ev-brands-brand-building-teslaGoogle publishes guide on optimizing for generative AI features - https://searchengineland.com/google-publishes-guide-on-optimizing-for-generative-ai-features-477671Title: Adidas Makes you better - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKaqoq5NVVs
• SBP 199: The PostPod - Lessons From Terry O'Reilly: The Ads That Shouldn't Have Worked. 15.05.2026 25мин

  What if modern marketing’s biggest problem isn’t bad targeting… but safe creativity?In this PostPod episode of The Sleeping Barber Podcast, Marc Binkley and Vassilis Douros unpack their conversation with advertising legend Terry O'Reilly, and explore what today’s marketers may have lost in the pursuit of optimization, dashboards, and defensible decisions.From pink flamingos and whistling beer campaigns to distinctive brand assets and the death of creative risk-taking, this conversation dives into why some of the most memorable advertising ideas in history would likely never survive a modern approval process.The discussion explores:Why breakthrough creative often sounds irrational before it worksHow organizations optimize for career safety instead of originalityThe danger of over-standardized digital advertisingWhy distinctive assets like jingles, mascots, and sonic branding still matterHow dashboards and optimization loops may be creating a “sea of sameness”Why great creative requires surprise, emotion, and a little discomfortThe tension between data, instinct, and long-term brand buildingHow AI may unintentionally push marketing even further toward the middleMarc and V also reflect on Terry’s thoughts around agency relationships, creativity as a business multiplier, and the importance of giving agencies enough room to create work that actually gets remembered.Because maybe the future advantage in marketing won’t belong to the brands with the best targeting…Maybe it’ll belong to the brands brave enough to still be interesting.TakeawaysProduction quality can elevate a podcast's impact.Creative strategies should push boundaries to achieve greatness.Breakthrough ideas often seem irrational at first.Risk-taking is essential for memorable marketing campaigns.Digital platforms can dilute creativity with standardization.Feedback on creative work lacks structured metrics.Distinctive brand assets are declining in modern marketing.Data should complement, not replace, creative instincts.Surprise elements in campaigns capture audience attention.Career risk often stifles creative innovation.Chapters00:00 - Introduction and Podcast Production Insights03:00 - Creative Strategy and Agency Collaboration06:01 - The Importance of Breakthrough Ideas08:52 - Risk in Modern Marketing11:59 - The Role of Digital Platforms in Creativity15:13 - The Language of Creative Feedback17:56 Distinctive Brand Assets and Their Decline20:47 The Balance of Data and Creativity24:00 Conclusion and Reflections on the Conversation
• SBP 198: The Ads That Shouldn't Have Worked. With Terry O'Reilly 12.05.2026 52мин

  There is a commercial in this episode that the president of Fibreglass tried to kill on a Thursday. By Sunday he had changed his mind, when his minister grabbed his arm and told him the pink panther ads were the funniest thing in advertising.That campaign went on to capture 70 percent of the Canadian insulation market.Every story Terry O'Reilly tells in this conversation is a campaign like that.A group of nuns who lost their habits and got an ad on the ceiling of a Sault Ste. Marie city bus. A Maine brewery that launched by promising never to mention its own name again, and trained a city to order beer by whistling. None of them would have survived a focus group.All of them built businesses.That's the spine of the episode: the work we remember almost never comes from the data. It comes from the moment a marketer trusts a calculated risk.Terry has hosted CBC's Under the Influence for two decades and directed roughly 14,000 commercials before that. He argues that the marketing industry has quietly traded its instincts for dashboards, and that the cost is most of the advertising we now scroll past without noticing.The episode lands on a single ask for any CMO listening: sit down with your agency tomorrow and tell them you want work that makes your palms sweat.Chapters00:00 - The Art of Advertising: Creativity vs. Data09:59 - Learning from Early Failures: A Journey in Advertising19:51 - Creative Campaigns: Success Stories and Lessons Learned29:58 - The Power of Distinctive Brand Assets40:04 - The Evolution of Advertising: From Jingles to Modern Mnemonics33:03 - Navigating Bureaucracy in Big Brands35:16 - The Importance of Effective Presentations41:15 - Creativity vs. Conventional Wisdom47:38 - Encouraging High Creativity in MarketingReferences• Under the Influence (CBC): https://www.cbc.ca/listen/cbc-podcasts/203-under-the-influence• Apostrophe Podcast Network: https://www.apostrophepodcasts.ca• Pirate Group: https://www.piratetoronto.com• Terry's books (Against the Grain, My Best Mistake, This I Know, The Age of Persuasion)• LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/terry-o-reilly• Website: terryoreilly.ca• Under the Influence: Available on CBC Listen, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever podcasts are found
• SBP 197: The Sharp Cut - Purpose is a promise most brands can't keep 07.05.2026 24мин

  Most marketers believe brand purpose drives growth.The data says otherwise.In this episode of The Sharp Cut, we take on one of marketing’s most widely accepted ideas and put it under a microscope. Drawing on research from the Ehrenberg-Bass Institute, Peter Field’s IPA databank analysis, and perspectives from Mark Ritson and Roger Martin, we unpack a simple but uncomfortable truth:Brand purpose works… rarely.We explore why purpose has become so dominant despite weak commercial evidence, how industry incentives have turned it into a “comfort blanket,” and why the outliers like Patagonia and Dove don’t translate to most brands.Along the way, we break down:The “say–do gap” between what consumers claim and how they actually buyWhy most purpose strategies show little to no impact on market shareThe hidden downside of poorly executed purpose campaignsHow purpose often replaces the harder work of real positioningThe three conditions required for purpose to actually work (and why most brands don’t meet them)This is not a takedown for the sake of it. It’s a reframing.Because the real question isn’t whether purpose is good or bad.It’s whether your organization has earned the right to use it.If not, you may be trading growth for a story that simply sounds good.Enjoy the show!TakeawaysConsumers often express a desire for brands with purpose, but this doesn't always translate to purchasing behavior.Brand purpose has become an unfalsifiable idea in marketing, often lacking robust evidence.The say-do gap highlights the difference between consumer sentiment and actual buying decisions.Purpose campaigns can generate emotional engagement but may not lead to increased market share.Most brands adopting purpose strategies do not see meaningful commercial outcomes.The effectiveness of purpose campaigns varies significantly based on execution quality.Patagonia and Dove are often cited as successful purpose-driven brands, but their models are not easily replicable.Real purpose requires genuine commitment and often involves sacrifices.Purpose can enhance employee satisfaction and brand loyalty, but it is not a direct marketing strategy.The industry often conflates purpose with marketing effectiveness, leading to misconceptions about its value.Chapters:00:00 - Introduction02:29 - The Evolution of Purpose in Marketing06:31 - Research Findings on Brand Purpose10:51 - The Complexity of Purpose Campaigns14:40 - The Outlier Problem: Patagonia and Dove20:00 - Understanding the Value of Purpose23:16 - Conclusion: The Reality of Brand PurposeReferencesTait, V., Beal, V., Dawes, J., & Sharp, B. (2025). Brand purpose awareness: Evidence from 14 leading purpose brands. Ehrenberg-Bass Institute for Marketing Science.Dawes, J., Tait, V., Beal, V., & Sharp, B. (2026, March 31). Does having a brand purpose actually lead to growth? Marketing Week. https://www.marketingweek.com/purpose-brands-actually-grown/Ritson, M. (2022, January 19). Good purpose, bad purpose: Marketers shouldn’t oversimplify the arguments. Marketing Week. https://www.marketingweek.com/mark-ritson-good-purpose-bad-purpose/Ritson, M. (2019). Brand purpose doesn’t require a commercial excuse. Marketing Week. https://www.marketingweek.com/ritson-brand-purpose-commercial-excuse/Ritson, M. (2019). A true brand purpose doesn’t boost profit, it sacrifices it. Marketing Week. https://www.marketingweek.com/mark-ritson-true-brand-purpose-doesnt-boost-profit-sacrifices/Field, P. (2021, October). The effectiveness of brand purpose [Conference presentation]. IPA EffWorks Global 2021. https://ipa.co.uk/news/power-of-brand-purposeShotton, R. (2021). Critique of IPA purpose methodology. Twitter/LinkedIn commentary, October 2021. As reported in The Drum, 14 October 2021.Field, P. (2019). The crisis in creative effectiveness. IPA / WARC. https://ipa.co.uk/knowledge/publications-reports/the-crisis-in-creative-effectivenessSharp, B. (2010). How brands grow. Oxford University Press.Sinek, S. (2009). Start with why. Portfolio/Penguin.
• SBP 196: The Barber's Brief - The Missing Layer In Performance Marketing? 05.05.2026 29мин

  In this episode, we cover everything from the growing trust gap in performance marketing to the evolving role of attribution, AI, and search, and what it all means for how marketers prove impact.What we unpack:1. Performance marketing’s missing layer: proofAre clicks, conversions, and ROAS actually telling the truth — or just telling a story?We explore the growing need for verification, transparency, and accountability in a system built to optimize results… not validate them.2. Is last-click attribution… not completely broken?A new study suggests last-click might be more useful than we thought — but only in very specific scenarios.The catch? Most marketers are using it in the exact wrong places.3. The future of search: from clicks to answersWith YouTube testing conversational search (“Ask YouTube”), we discuss the shift from search engines to answer engines — and what happens when platforms control not just discovery, but interpretation.4. The New York Times turnaroundHow a legacy publisher is redefining its ad model through games, cooking, and lifestyle content — and why “brand safety” might be the wrong lens entirely.5. Ad of the Week: Pinterest’s bold movePinterest tells users to get off social media.A platform rejecting the attention economy? We break down why this might be one of the smartest positioning plays in years.Themes you’ll hear throughout:The difference between performance and truthWhy measurement ≠ impactThe growing importance of incrementality and validationAnd how platforms are reshaping the rules of attention and discoveryChapters:00:00 - Introduction02:19 - The Missing Layer in Performance Marketing08:05 - Last Click Attribution: A Double-Edged Sword14:26 - YouTube's Shift to Answer Engine18:56 - The New York Times: Reinventing Advertising23:04 - Pinterest's Bold Campaign Against Social Media28:22 - Upcoming Conversations and Closing ThoughtsLinks:Title: ​The Missing Layer In Performance Marketing: Verifiable ProofLink: https://www.forbes.com/councils/forbestechcouncil/2026/05/01/the-missing-layer-in-performance-marketing-verifiable-proof/Title: By Way of Nico Neumann Predicted Incrementality by Experimentation (PIE) for Ad MeasurementLink: https://www.nber.org/papers/w35044Title: YouTube Testing New Search Experience - “Ask YouTube”Link: https://searchengineland.com/youtube-testing-new-search-experience-ask-youtube-475786Title: How The New York Times is using Games and Cooking to win over ‘never news’ advertisersLink: https://www.thedrum.com/news/how-the-new-york-times-is-using-games-and-cooking-to-win-over-never-news-advertisersAd of the Week:New Pinterest campaign urges Gen Z to get off social mediaLink: https://youtu.be/qr8bNBuptpU?si=ArB2JWyeVGmMYW-f