Coming Out & Beyond Support for Women Questioning Their Sexuality Later in Life

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  The Firefly Journey: What the Research Tells Us About Coming Out Later in Life 24.07.2026 52min

  What if the single biggest factor in whether we come out, when we come out, and how we heal along the way is the community around us? Dr. Mallory Hanfling returns to the show, this time with research in hand. Mallory recently completed her PhD in human sexuality, and her dissertation explored how community mitigates the impact of compulsory heterosexuality on the Firefly experience, the journey of those who discover something new about their sexuality or gender after committing to a relationship that appeared straight from the outside.Mallory shares why she coined the term Firefly, what her 21 participants taught her about the systems that keep us underground, and why the people we surround ourselves with shape everything about this journey. We talk about grief, religious communities, workplace culture, family planning, neurodivergence, and how to choose online spaces that truly support us. Whether you are 30 or 86, this conversation is a reminder that we were never meant to do this alone.[03:39] Mallory's academic journey and how the term Firefly was born out of isolation, biphobia, and the need for something beautiful in a messy experience[08:16] The preconceived ideas that did not survive contact with reality, and the grief that surprised her[09:16] Grief as a portal. Why coming out later in life often brings every ungrieved loss to the surface[13:15] How the study was designed, who participated, and why Mallory insisted on a participant pool that reflected a range of genders, sexualities, races, and backgrounds[18:42] The central finding: community makes a world of difference in how, when, and whether we come out[22:00] The communities that most often restrict authenticity, beginning with religious spaces[24:13] Workplace culture, family planning, and the institutional barriers that keep people in straight presenting marriages[29:16] A-M's story of finding her first online community and the words that changed how she saw her ex-husband's new partner[31:26] How to be a careful consumer of online groups, and the difference between spaces that heal and spaces that harm[36:22] The overlap between recovery, neurodivergence, and coming out later in life[41:51] Treasure hunting: looking back with hindsight glasses at the signs that were there all along[47:01] Sexual scripts, caretaking roles, and the abandonment of self[51:55] Addressing the old trope about childhood abuse and sexuality, and what the science actually says[54:38] Mallory's advice for anyone figuring this out, at 30 or at 75Dr. Mallory Hanfling (she/they) is a therapist located in Philadelphia and licensed in Pennsylvania, New York, New Jersey, and Indiana. Her practice, Courage to Grow Counseling, serves mostly the queer community, working with individuals and couples on identity development, coming out, communication skills, and connecting with one's most authentic self. She is a doctor of human sexuality, and her dissertation explored how community mitigates the impact of compulsory heterosexuality on the Firefly late bloomer identity. Mallory received her Bachelor of Arts in Psychology and Bachelor of Science in Family Science from the University of Maryland and her Master of Social Work from the University of Pennsylvania. She has presented nationally and internationally on her academic work with the Firefly community. Instagram: @thefireflyjourney (the survey link for sharing your own story is in her bio)Website: couragetogrowcounseling.orgMallory is currently accepting new clients in Pennsylvania, New York, New Jersey, and IndianaMallory's previous episode of Coming Out and Beyond, where she shares her personal story: https://youtu.be/Wn0EWBEsOtwAuthentically Us is our community for women finding their way toward a more honest life. It is a soft place to land, a space for your queerness to bloom, and a room full of people who understand the questions you have not said out loud yet. We would love to welcome you. Come find us at https://community.annemariezanzal.com/
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  The Boy Who Skated Anyway: Stef Vachon's Story 17.07.2026 40min

  Content note: This conversation includes language that references homophobic slurs and a discussion of suicidal ideation and mental health struggles. Please listen with care, and reach out for support if you need it.What happens when the thing you love most is the very thing the world tells you is wrong?This week we sit down with Stef Vachon, a proud queer man, husband, father, keynote speaker, and former international professional figure skater with over 30 years of experience performing around the world. Stef grew up in a small French speaking town in Quebec where every boy was expected to play hockey. Instead, he fell in love with figure skating, and the bullying began almost immediately.Stef shares his decades in survival mode, the breaking point that led him to write his entire life story and hand it to a therapist, and the piece of homework that sent him back onto the ice and back to himself. We talk about learning to be alone before finding love, the pressures of image and perfection in gay male culture, chosen family, and the movie that opened the door to fatherhood in his fifties.Today Stef hosts the Together Moving Forward podcast and speaks on moving from survival into self respect, self love, and pride. His story is a reminder for all of us that it is never too late to come home to who we are.Resources and MentionsTogether Moving Forward podcast, hosted by Stef Vachon: https://www.youtube.com/@TogetherMovingForwardPodcastReinventing Your Life by Jeffrey Young and Janet Klosko, the book Stef's therapist recommended: https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/43866.Reinventing_Your_LifeLion (2016), the film that opened the door to fatherhood for Stef and his husband: https://youtu.be/-RNI9o06vqo?si=YvZBBnQhp24aX3XYHeated Rivalry, the series we cannot stop talking about (hear our full episode on it with Barb Rowlandson): https://youtu.be/7ws7-FvaW38This Time I Know It's for Real by Donna Summer, Stef's coming out song: https://youtu.be/U4_X2p6rPJI?si=-J9S3QpetZS5lu3nConnect with StefWebsite and podcast: togethermovingforwardpodcast.comInstagram and social media: @togethermovingforwardpodcastIf Stef's story stirred something in you, that feeling is worth paying attention to. Our 3 Day Clarity Experience is a live, guided event for women who are questioning, wondering, or somewhere in the middle of figuring out who they are. Over three evenings together, July 21 to 23, we create a safe and welcoming space to help you find clarity about your own journey, surrounded by women who understand because they are walking it too.You do not have to have it all figured out to join us. You only need to be curious about what your most authentic life might look like.Learn more and register at https://annemariezanzal.com/3-day-clarity-experience/
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  Real Talk on Sapphic Dating and Relationships 10.07.2026 55min

  It is the second Friday of the month, which means Anne-Marie is joined by dating coach Barbara Rowlandson and Nashville photographer Tonda McKay, to talk all things sapphic dating and relationships. This month the trio takes on four real questions from women navigating the queer dating world. How do you slow down when every connection turns intense within weeks? Are you a jerk for losing interest when someone shows up looking nothing like their photos? What do you do when you want more intimacy than your partner does? And how do you recover when a promising connection ends after six lovely dates?Along the way, Barb teaches the WIN language formula for hard conversations, Tonda shares her hard-won wisdom on representatives, resentment, and why community will pick you up when heartbreak knocks you down, and Anne-Marie reminds us that bed death is not a lesbian thing, it is a long-term relationship thing. Expect honest talk, big laughs, and one unforgettable New Year's Eve story from the Lipstick Lounge.If you are questioning your sexuality or reconsidering who you are, you do not have to figure it out alone. Join Anne-Marie and Barb for the Three Day Clarity Experience, July 21 to 23, a safe and supportive space to explore your questions alongside women who understand. Our last event welcomed 54 women and many called it life changing. Save your seat at https://annemariezanzal.com/3-day-clarity-experience/New episodes of Coming Out and Beyond drop weekly. Follow the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube https://youtu.be/NXWUe52DKmM so you never miss a conversation, and if this episode spoke to you, consider leaving a review. It helps other women find us.
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  🏳️‍🌈Allyship That Truly Matters 03.07.2026 51min

  When you come out to someone, you learn very quickly to tell the difference between the half embrace and the full embrace. The half embrace turns the conversation back to your husband, your children, your family system within the first thirty seconds. The full embrace simply asks, how are you doing.In this episode, Anne-Marie sits down with frequent guest Anna Empey for a tender and honest conversation about what we wish straight allies actually knew. Together they unpack why coming out is never about sex, but about identity, love, community, future, and wholeness. They name the responses that wound, the ones we have all heard, like this is just a phase, you are so brave, and I will pray for you. And they move toward something more hopeful, the real allyship that defends us when we are not in the room, that learns our partners by name, that follows up two years and five years and ten years later, because coming out is not a single moment. It is a lifelong unfolding.Whether you are walking your own coming out path or you love someone who is, this conversation offers language for the difference between the ally sitting safely in the chair and the ally who steps into the room beside you.If this conversation stirred something in you, and you are sensing there is more clarity waiting for you in this chapter of your life, we would love to welcome you into the Three Day Clarity Experience. It is a gentle, guided space to listen to yourself and begin to understand what is true for you, in community with women who understand. There is no pressure here, only an invitation. You can learn more and join us at https://annemariezanzal.com/3-day-clarity-experience/
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  Finding a Self I Couldn't Name: Part 2 - Dahron Johnson's Story of Coming Out as Trans & Learning to Trust Her Inner Voice 26.06.2026 44min

  In Part 2 of this conversation, Anne-Marie Zanzal continues her talk with Dahron Johnson, a trans woman, advocate, lifelong cyclist, and chair of the Metro Human Relations Commission in Nashville, who came out in her late forties after decades of quietly knowing.Dahron shares the rush of the days right after she realized a change had to be made, from calling care providers within 48 hours to playing the "wait list shell game" that shortened a six month wait down to six weeks. She remembers her first public moment out in the world, changing into a brand new outfit in the back of her car and walking across legislative plaza into a Glennon Doyle book reading just days before the world shut down for COVID.The conversation moves into the tender territory of telling her wife, "I need to let you know that I'm trans," after almost 25 years together, and the grief work both of them have navigated in the six years since. Anne-Marie and Dahron, both former hospice chaplains, talk about ambiguous grief, the courage it takes to trust your own inner voice, privilege and representation, and what it means to be married to several different people over the life of one marriage. It is an honest, hope filled conversation about becoming the self you could never have imagined.Connect with Dahron Johnson on social media. Her name is spelled D A H R O N Johnson, and you can also find her as DJ Contraption on most platforms.Feeling that quiet inner voice nudging you toward your own truth? Join Anne-Marie for the 3 Day Clarity Experience, July 21 to 23 at Authentically Us, three evenings of guided support for women navigating identity discovery in midlife and beyond. Save your spot here: https://annemariezanzal.com/3-day-clarity-experience/
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  Finding a Self I Couldn't Name, Part I: Dahron Johnson on Faith, Advocacy, and Making Room for More of Us. 19.06.2026 43min

  Dahron Johnson grew up surrounded by voices. Thousands of books in her parents' home, two people who met in divinity school, and a faith that taught her every person is fearfully and wonderfully made. And still, for decades, she could not find the words for who she was.In this episode, Anne-Marie sits down with her dear friend Dahron, a clinically trained chaplain, a tireless advocate, and the first openly trans person to speak from the floor of the Tennessee House. The two of them share roots in the North, in the church, and in the long work of coming home to themselves. They move through faith and the work of welcome, the cost of advocacy in Tennessee right now, and what it means to hold the whole person rather than the narrow slice the world finds convenient.Then the conversation turns inward. Dahron walks us through the years of living with no language and no container to put herself in, the ballet class and the leotard, the three days she spent tucked into the corner of a closet, and the hope bargain she made with herself to survive. She tells us about the lung collapses and the tumor that kept whispering there was a self she had never let herself know. And she brings us to the end of a therapist's driveway, the left turn and the right turn, the moment fifty years finally crystallized into one decision. It is time to get this done.This is a conversation about faith, courage, and the long road to naming ourselves. We are honored to share it with you.If you hear yourself somewhere in Dahron's story, you do not have to sit with it alone. Authentically Us is our community for women finding their way toward a more honest life. It is a soft place to land, a space for your queerness to bloom, and a room full of people who understand the questions you have not said out loud yet. We would love to welcome you. Come find us at https://community.annemariezanzal.com/This is Part One of our conversation with Dahron. The rest of her story is coming in Part Two.Follow Coming Out and Beyond wherever you listen, and share this episode with someone who needs to hear it.
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  Your Sapphic Dating Dilemmas, Answered with Love (and Zero Filter) 12.06.2026 47min

  This month we return to our lesbian dating and relationship conversation, the one we share on the second Friday of every month, and by popular request Tonda is back at the table! Anne-Marie is joined by her wife, Tonda McKay, our longtime out lesbian and resident truth teller, and by Barbara Rowlandson, fellow coach and the woman who helps lead our Authentically Us community. Together we work through four real questions pulled from the Lesbian Dating Advice subreddit, and the conversation moves from laughing out loud to genuinely tender.We start with the question so many of us know by heart, is my barista flirting with me, and we talk about strategic ambiguity, the cognitive itch that turns a maybe into a crush, and why two women who like each other can sit in a room and say nothing at all. From there we look at a girlfriend whose closest bond is with her straight married best friend, and we ask the harder question underneath the jealousy, are your needs being met in this relationship. We sit with a heartbreaking note from someone whose partner ended things out of religious guilt, and Anne-Marie and Tonda speak plainly about internalized shame, the cost of loving someone who is still in the closet, and the truth that you can be both gay and beloved by the Divine. We close with the "break" at seven months that is really a breakup, the anxious and avoidant dance, and Barbara's reminder that if someone tells you that you are too much, you are free to go find less.A few invitations from this episode. If you are wrestling with the clobber passages and the old messages about faith and sexuality, we point you toward the resources at Cathedral of Hope in Dallas, a UCC congregation that does this work with real care: https://www.cathedralofhope.com/If this season of your life has a catalyst of its own, Barbara and Anne-Marie created The Catalyst Chapter, a course to help you understand why this work can feel so hard and so holy, and you can find it inside Authentically Us and on the Anne-Marie Zanzal Coaching website, https://annemariezanzal.com/We taped this on the first of June, so wherever you are, we hope you find your way to some community and some queer joy this Pride month, and if it is safe and right for you, we hope you let yourself be seen. We are so glad you are here!
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  Grieving the Living: The Estrangement No One Prepares You For 05.06.2026 42min

  TW: This episode includes honest discussion about grief, estrangement and suicidal ideation. Listener discretion is advised. There is a kind of loss that arrives without a funeral. No casserole on the doorstep, no card in the mail, no ritual to mark it. It is the loss of people who are still alive, of communities that keep meeting without us, of the versions of ourselves we performed for decades. It is called estrangement, and for those of us who came out later in life or left the faith traditions that raised us, it may be one of the most present and least spoken parts of the whole story.In this episode, Anne-Marie and her cohost Anna Empey sit with the word estrangement and everything it holds. Anne-Marie shares her experience of becoming estranged from her child, the devastation of it, and the slow, tender work of repair she is in now. Anna brings her own story of leaving the LDS faith she was raised in and learning to navigate family through boundaries, distance, and a love that refused to disappear. Together they name the things the culture rarely makes room for. That we can grieve someone who is still breathing. That healing does not require reconciliation. That rupture is not failure, and leaving is not always abandonment. Sometimes it is the most faithful thing we can do for ourselves.This is a conversation we offer without tying it up neatly, because some of it is meant to stay open. If estrangement is part of your story, we hope you find some company here.This episode mentions a previous episode about grief and coming out. You can find that episode here: https://youtu.be/DnrRcKN8oT4Find the episode where Anna shares her coming out story here: https://youtu.be/XD_5QNn5IM8Learn more about "The Grief Handbook" by Bridget McNulty here: https://bridgetmcnulty.com/the-grief-handbook/You were never meant to do this alone. Authentically Us is a community of women who came out later in life and who understand the grief, the boundaries, and the becoming. We would love to walk alongside you. Join us at community.annemariezanzal.com.
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  Loving Someone Newly Out: Tonda McKay's Story of Falling in Love With a Later in Life Lesbian 29.05.2026 54min

  In this revisited Season 5 favorite, Anne-Marie sits down with photographer Tonda McKay, who also happens to be her wife. Tonda came out at eighteen as a good Southern Baptist girl whose prayer partner became her first love, and she has spent the decades since building a life as a long-out lesbian in the South. She shares what those early years held: the isolation of believing she was the only one, the family rupture when her mother said she was dead to her, and the slow, joyful discovery of community through a liberal church softball team.The conversation then turns to something the two of them know intimately. What is it actually like for someone who has been out for forty years to fall in love with a woman who is only just beginning her journey? Tonda speaks honestly about boundaries, patience, and trust, about learning that her new partner's grief was not about her, and about why being older changed everything. Her advice is tender and unvarnished, full of hard-won wisdom about red flags, self-respect, and why some loves are worth holding onto.It is a episode about two women of the same age meeting from opposite ends of the same experience, and the contentment they found together. As Tonda puts it, there is absolutely nothing wrong with loving who you want to love, and love really does win eventually.You can learn more about Tonda's photography work at https://tondamckay.com/If Tonda and Anne-Marie's story stirred something in you, you do not have to walk your own journey alone. Authentically Us is a warm, grounded community for women exploring identity and coming out later in life, a soft place to land among others who understand. Whether someone is newly questioning or further along the path, community is where the healing happens. Come find your people at community.annemariezanzal.com.
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  Twice Out, Once Home: Keith Aron on Sexuality, Gender & the Long Way Back to Yourself 22.05.2026 54min

  This week on Coming Out & Beyond, Anne-Marie sits down with Keith Aron (he/they), a trans and queer transformational coach, writer, proudly witchy weirdo, and self-described honorary tree. Keith writes the Substack Big Blue Sky Dragonfly, where he explores the sweet spot between belonging and authenticity — and his story is one Anne-Marie has been wanting to share for a long time.Keith came out as a lesbian in 2001, while living in conservative Northern Virginia, married to a man, and parenting a young child. There was no social media then, no community waiting on the other side of a Google search — only a Yahoo users group called Lesbian Support, a tiny LGBTQ shelf at the local Barnes and Noble, and a book titled From Wedded Wife to Lesbian Life that he devoured in his minivan. Fifteen years later, after years of sobriety, therapy, and working with gender dysphoria that had been quietly rising for most of his life, Keith came out again — this time as trans.In this conversation, Anne-Marie and Keith move slowly through the territory many of our community members know well. The double masking of sexuality and gender. The way the body keeps the score when we suppress what we know to be true. The role of community in healing what Anne-Marie has called the relational wound of queerness. The strange terrain of passing, of invisibility, of gaining male privilege as someone who lived nearly five decades culturally read as female. The both/and of every part of this work.Keith also offers his perspective on imposter syndrome — particularly the queer imposter syndrome that visits so many people who arrive at their identity later in life and wonder if they are queer enough, trans enough, allowed enough to claim what is theirs. His approach, informed by internal family systems, is one of curiosity rather than combat: getting to know the inner critic, learning what it is afraid of, what it has been trying to protect. (Listen for Keith's nod to Marlin from Finding Nemo as the inner critic we can all probably recognize.)Anne-Marie and Keith also talk practically about how to find safe community when you are exploring something new — including the often-overlooked support of 12-step affinity spaces — and how to find a therapist or coach who actually understands later-in-life identity work, because the rush to be an ally is not the same as the experience to do the work well.This conversation is for anyone listening who came in for the sexuality piece and has started to wonder if there is something else underneath. It is also for anyone who has been on this path for a while and could use the company of someone who has walked the long version of it.Connect with KeithYou can find Keith at keitharon.com and on Substack at Big Blue Sky Dragonfly (keitharon.substack.com), or by searching his name on LinkedIn. If you are curious about working with him, his website is the easiest place to start.Join us in communityIf Keith's words about the necessity of community landed somewhere tender today, we want you to know there is a place for you. Authentically Us is Anne-Marie's ongoing community on Mighty Networks for women navigating identity, sexuality, and the questions that arrive in midlife. It is warm, it is unhurried, and it is full of people who have wondered the same things you are wondering. We would love to have you. You can learn more at https://community.annemariezanzal.com.
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  Hurricane Lessons: Betrayal, Becoming, & Coming Out Later in Life 15.05.2026 45min

  A decade ago, Anne-Marie and Katrina Anne Willis met inside a small Facebook group that no longer exists — a quiet corner of the internet where women who had Googled "late in life lesbian" found each other. They were both raising kids. Both married to men. Both trying to understand a feeling they didn't yet have language for.This week, they finally meet face to face.Katrina is the author of Hurricane Lessons: A Memoir of Betrayal and Becoming, released April 7th by Sibylline Press. In this conversation, she and Anne-Marie trade their parallel stories — the Pilates instructor, the Catholic upbringing, the husbands who said "if you ever leave me, you'll leave me for a woman" long before either of them understood what that meant. They talk about the catalyst relationship that ripped Katrina's world open, the friend group that quietly disappeared, and the children who grieved in their own ways and on their own timelines.They also talk about what comes after the hurricane. The chosen family. The intentional life. The unexpected softness of a world without raised voices. And the lesson Katrina says took her the longest to learn: that the first betrayal in any coming out story is the betrayal of self, and the becoming begins the moment you stop.If you've ever wondered whether you're the only one who has felt this way — Katrina's answer, and the heart of this episode, is no. You're not. You never were.Where to find Katrina:Hurricane Lessons is available at bookshop.org, Barnes & Noble, Amazon, and independent bookstores everywhereSubstack: Surrendering to SapphoInstagram & Facebook: katrina.anne.willisReady to write your own next chapter? Authentically Us is Anne-Marie's private community for women navigating exactly the kind of transition Katrina describes in Hurricane Lessons — the questioning, the becoming, the quiet rebuilding of a life that actually fits. You don't have to figure it out alone, and you don't have to wait until you have language for it. Join us at https://community.annemariezanzal.com
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  The Surprise Truth About Sapphic Sex: What Nobody Tells You Before You Get Here! 08.05.2026 59min

  A woman in our community wrote in and asked: "What if my lesbian sex experience doesn't live up to the hype? Does that make me not gay?"That question deserved more than a one-line answer. So Anne-Marie brought in two of her favorite humans to tell the truth — the kind of truth nobody hands you before you get here.Her wife Tonda McKay has been out for forty years and brings the long view: what the community looked like before midlife women started arriving in big numbers, and what she's watched shift since. Co-coach Barb Rowlandson came out later in life and survived midlife lesbian dating to tell the tale. Together with Anne-Marie, they go where most podcasts won't.In this episode, the three of them talk about:🌈Why the lesbian sex fantasy is so powerful — and why the reality is more complicated than the imagination🌈Where the U-Haul joke actually comes from (hint: it's economics, microaggressions, and brain chemistry, not just feelings)🌈Moving fast in a new relationship — when it works, when it doesn't, and how to tell which is which🌈Why moving toward something is different from moving away from something🌈Internalized homophobia, shame, and how it shows up in the bedroom — for newly out and long-out women🌈What it's like to date someone who is brand new when you've been out for decades🌈How the conversation around later-in-life lesbians has shifted in the last ten years🌈Why "we send our representative" on the first few dates — and what happens when the real person shows up🌈Butch, femme, and the freedom of having no rules🌈The talking. So much talking.This is a warm, funny, honest conversation between three women who love each other and who are not interested in pretending lesbian relationships are easier, simpler, or more magical than they actually are. They are interested in telling you the truth, so you have company on the road.If you have ever wondered whether your experience is "normal," whether you are doing this right, or whether the hype was lying to you — this one is for you.Have a question you want answered on the podcast? Send it to us. Like the listener who asked the question that opened this episode, your question might be exactly what someone else in our community needs to hear.New episode of Coming Out & Beyond is live. Listen wherever you get your podcasts — Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or watch the full episode on YouTube: If you are coming out later in life, dating for the first time as a queer woman, or somewhere in the middle of figuring it all out — you are not alone, and you are not behind. We're glad you're here.If this episode made you think I want to talk about this with women who get it — that's exactly what Authentically Us is for. It's our private community for women navigating identity, coming out, and what comes next. We talk, we laugh, we process, we hold space. Come find your people. Join us at https://community.annemariezanzal.com .
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  Clarity Is a Thousand Small Permissions 01.05.2026 42min

  Join the 3-Day Clarity Experience, May 5–7. A live space for women in the long middle who are ready to stop doing it alone — not to get a fix, but to sit with the questions alongside a community of women in exactly the same place. Standard admission is $47, or $87 for VIP, which includes a private 45-minute call with Anne-Marie. https://annemariezanzal.com/3-day-clarity-experience/The fantasy is that one day you wake up and everything snaps into place — the marriage, the friendships, the way you dress, the way you pray. What nobody tells us is that for most of us, becoming happens at the speed of a glacier, not a lightning bolt.In this month's conversation, Anne-Marie Zanzal sits down with returning guest Anna Empey to explore the long middle — the space between knowing and acting, between the question and the certainty. They talk about why coming out is the end of the beginning, not the end of the story; why "I don't know yet" is a complete and honest answer; and why the grand reinvention is really a thousand small permissions stacked on top of each other.The conversation moves into the nervous system response that comes with this kind of change — the sleep that won't come, the body that won't settle — and the practices that help women stay with themselves while everything is moving. Anne-Marie and Anna also get into shame versus guilt, the cultural script that says coming out is only for the young, and why no one has to blow up her life to live an honest one.Whether a listener is four months into claiming a new identity or has been sitting with the question for years, this conversation is a reminder that she is not behind. She is already becoming.Coming Out & Beyond is available on Apple Podcasts and Spotify, with full video episodes on YouTube: https://youtu.be/g2AGyBj8JXUFor listeners who find today's conversation landing somewhere tender, Authentically Us offers an online community for women navigating identity questions in midlife and beyond — a place to belong while still figuring out what they're becoming. More information is available at https://community.annemariezanzal.com/users/onboarding/plans#ComingOutLaterInLife #LateBloomerLesbian #LGBTQPodcast #MidlifeAwakening #SacredBelonging
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  You Can't Know What You Don't Know: DBT, Queer Joy, and Coming Out at Any Age with Dr. Kiki Fehling 24.04.2026 53min

  Something in you already knows.Maybe it's been whispering for years. Maybe it got louder recently. Maybe you can't quite name it yet — but you know something is asking to be looked at.If you've been sitting with questions about who you are, who you love, or what this next chapter of your life is actually supposed to look like, the 3-Day Clarity Experience was built for you.Three evenings. One guide. A real map forward.Live on Zoom, May 5–7, 2026 - 7:00–8:15 PM CSTDay 1 – Is This Real? Your Story of Knowing. We'll trace the quiet moments that have been pointing toward this truth — the early clues, the body signals, the friendships that felt like something more. You'll leave with a personal Story of Knowing timeline that makes sense of what you've been carrying.Day 2 – Where Am I in This Journey? We'll walk through the five stages of later-in-life awakening, and you'll find yourself somewhere on that map. Not lost. Not behind. Exactly where you're supposed to be.Day 3 – What Now? Your Next Right Step. We'll look honestly at what's possible and what's getting in the way. You'll leave with a For-Now Truth Statement and a Three-Step Next Moves Plan — one small, supportive step forward.This isn't a webinar. It's three evenings of real company with a guide who has walked this road herself, alongside other women who are asking the same questions you are.If you've been listening to this podcast and wondering what the next layer looks like — this is it.Register for the 3-Day Clarity Experience at: https://annemariezanzal.com/3-day-clarity-experience/Anne-Marie Zanzal is a coach, ordained minister, and former hospice chaplain who came out at 52 after a long marriage. She works with midlife women navigating identity, faith, and the questions that don't go away.Now onto the podcast!What if the reason you didn't figure it out sooner had nothing to do with self-awareness — and everything to do with a world that never gave you the language?In this rich, warm, and genuinely important conversation, Anne-Marie sits down with Dr. Kiki Fehling (she/they) — clinical psychologist, author, Linehan Board Certified DBT expert, and queer mental health advocate — for a wide-ranging exploration of identity, emotion, and the practice of joy.Kiki shares their own coming out story as a bi and non-binary person who didn't find a non-binary identity until their mid-30s — even while specializing in LGBTQ+ mental health. Together, Anne-Marie and Kiki unpack one of the most liberating ideas in the episode: you can't know what you don't know. The language, the representation, the community — these aren't luxuries. They are the very things that make self-discovery possible.The conversation goes deep on:Why coming out later doesn't mean you missed something — and what actually gets in the way of recognizing yourselfBisexuality, biphobia, and the "bi as a phase" question — asked with care, answered with nuance and honestyDBT and dialectical thinking — how holding two true things at once can change everything for people in transitionQueer joy as a practice, not a destination — and specific, doable ways to cultivate it, whether life is going smoothly or you're in the thick of a dark night of the soulPeople-pleasing, guilt, and permission — why women in transition so often feel they don't deserve joy, and how to begin releasing thatGender exploration as playfulness — for those whose queer journey is taking them somewhere unexpectedWhether you're just beginning to ask questions, mid-transition, or somewhere on the other side, this episode will meet you where you are.🎉 Kiki is the author of Self-Directed DBT Skills, DBT Cards for Coping Skills, and the forthcoming LGBTQ+ Mental Health Workbook (2026). You can find all of Kiki's work at kikifehling.com, follow them on social media at @dbtkiki, or subscribe to their Substack newsletter, How to Queer Joy, for ongoing wisdom on exactly what it sounds like.💛 Ready to stop navigating this alone? The Authentically Us community is a warm, intentional space for women who are asking the questions Kiki and Anne-Marie talked about in this episode — and who are ready to find their people. Come find us: https://community.annemariezanzal.com/users/onboarding/plans#QueerJoy #ComingOutLaterInLife #DBTSkills #LGBTQMentalHealth #AuthenticLiving
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  I Had Been Waiting For Something My Whole Life 17.04.2026 27min

  In this week's episode of Coming Out & Beyond, Anne-Marie traces the winding, decade-long road that led her from a single paragraph in an Oprah magazine to finally saying the words out loud — and finding the woman who would become her wife along the way.She begins in 2006, when an article about women who had left marriages with men to be with women cracked something open in her — a joy she couldn't explain and quietly tucked away. She walks listeners through every moment she tried to surface that truth: a therapist who made her feel like she'd failed a litmus test, a marriage counselor who chalked it up to a difficult relationship with her mother, and the years of silence in between. Then comes the patient — a small, fierce woman from Connecticut who signed her own hospice paperwork and told Anne-Marie she thought she'd been waiting for something her whole life. In that moment, something irreversible shifted.She shares the four words she typed into Google — late in life lesbian — and what happened next: an online community, a Facebook group with 180 members, and a woman named Tonda McKay from Nashville who put her in the friend zone and then slowly, over the next year, became the love of her life.Anne-Marie weaves in the music that accompanied all of it — Mary Lambert's "She Keeps Me Warm" and Macklemore's "Same Love" — songs she had cried at for years without fully understanding why. She reflects on what it means to carry a verdict you never agreed to, to mistake recognition for compassion, and to discover that orientation doesn't wait to be confirmed. It was already there, in every song that broke her open, long before she gave herself permission to know it.This episode closes with an invitation: you don't have to figure this out alone. Anne-Marie did that for ten years. There's another way.If any part of this episode landed somewhere real in you, the 3-Day Clarity Experience is happening May 5th through 7th. Three days of community, of being seen, of not carrying this alone. Anne-Marie created it for exactly the moment you might be in right now. The link is https://annemariezanzal.com/3-day-clarity-experience/ Anne-Marie tells part of this story — meeting Tonda, the fear, the phone call, all of it — in her memoir Authentic Peace. If this episode moved you and you want to go deeper into her coming-out journey, you can find the book here: https://amzn.to/3F9szYYYou can find Anne-Marie's Substack piece on the therapist who couldn't see her here: https://annemariezanzal1.substack.com/p/the-therapist-who-couldnt-see-me?r=4c7fmcLooking for community and clarity as you navigate this journey? You don't have to do it alone! Visit https://community.annemariezanzal.com/users/onboarding/plans for ways to connect and learn with women just like you.Anne-Marie mentions listening to Mary Lambert's "She Keeps Me Warm" — the song that broke her open long before she understood why. Go listen with new ears. The Vevo link is in the show notes. No ally framing. Just her voice. Notice what your body does. https://youtu.be/NhqH-r7Xj0E?si=nBuaJCIxjKUeDmHRMacklemore's "Same Love" samples Mary Lambert's voice at key moments throughout — it was the anthem of marriage equality in 2012 and part of the soundtrack of Anne-Marie's coming-out years. The YouTube link is in the show notes. https://youtu.be/hlVBg7_08n0?si=cNbfy5Sg6L-T_Uwg#LateInLifeLesbian #ComingOutLaterInLife #QueerWomen #LGBTQPodcast #AuthenticLife
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  Red Flags, Love Bombing & Listening to Your Inner Voice 15.04.2026 44min

  You're finally dating women — and maybe dating in general for the first time in decades. The apps are confusing, the feelings are big, and it can be hard to know when to trust your gut and when you're overthinking it. In this episode, Anne-Marie sits down with resident dating authority Barbara Rowlandson — therapist, dating coach, and marriage officiant who has literally married hundreds of couples — for a candid, practical conversation about red flags in the world of lesbian and queer dating. They cover the warning signs that show up before you've even met in person: profiles that say "just ask me," someone rushing you off the app, phishing schemes targeting generous women who want to see the best in people. They also get into what love bombing actually looks like and how to know when you're in a cycle that isn't going to change. And because second adolescence is real and needs to be named — they talk honestly about what it means to come into your sexuality later in life, why desire gets amplified, and why you can extend some self-compassion if you've made choices you'd do differently now. From there, they answer two listener questions pulled from Reddit — one about a woman who won't let her girlfriend come over after four months together, and one about dating age gaps and the fear of being judged — with the warmth, honesty, and occasional sass you've come to expect from these two. If you're new to dating women, or you've been out for a while and still want some guidance on navigating the dating world, this conversation is for you. Find this episode wherever you listen to podcasts — just search Coming Out & Beyond. If you prefer to watch, this conversation is on YouTube: https://youtu.be/l7uOk-2kBBU Barb and Anne-Marie answer listener dating questions on the air every second Friday of the month. If you have a question about dating, relationships, or navigating the queer dating world, reach out at support@annemariezanzal.com — your question could be featured on an upcoming episode. Barbara works with women navigating later-in-life coming out, relationships, and everything in between. You can find her through Anne-Marie's website at annemariezanzal.com. Join This Authentic Life — May cohort: If this episode is resonating with you, you might be ready for more than just dating advice. This Authentic Life is a community coaching experience for women navigating identity, authenticity, and what it means to live as your full self — often for the first time. The May cohort begins May 18, and early bird pricing is open now through April 15. Learn more and save your spot at https://annemariezanzal.com/this-authentic-life-community-course/
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  Too Gay to Fit In, Too New to Feel at Home 03.04.2026 40min

  Coming out names something true. But it doesn't hand you a place to land.In this episode of Coming Out & Beyond, Anne-Marie sits down with returning guest Anna Empey — LGBT coach, business development consultant, and community builder — for an honest, tender conversation about what it really takes to find your people after you've found yourself.Anna knows firsthand what it costs to lose the communities you thought you'd hold forever — her faith community, her family connections, her sense of where she fit. And she knows what it took to build something new, not because it was easy, but because she understood, bone deep, that healing doesn't happen in isolation.Together, Anne-Marie and Anna explore why queer community isn't a nice bonus on the side of your coming-out journey — it's where the healing actually lives. They talk about the low-grade wariness so many women carry walking into queer spaces, the voice that asks am I gay enough? and the gatekeepers who don't have the authority they think they do. They talk about what safe enough really means (hint: it's not a place where nothing hard ever happens), about the muscle memory of performing belonging we carry in from our straight lives, and about why the rawest, most honest thing you say in community is almost always the one that gets the most me too.Anna also shares something she learned after years of searching for the roadmap someone would just hand her: nobody can tell you exactly what it looks like for you. But there are people who will show up and walk with you while you figure it out.And that is still community. That still counts.Reflection question from this episode: Where do you feel most yourself in the presence of others? Sit with it. Write it down. Let it open something.Resources + Ways to ConnectListen to the full episode on YouTube → https://youtu.be/Yr8wa-YcyBkReady to stop doing this alone? Here's where to find your people:Join Authentically Us — Anne-Marie's online community for queer women navigating identity, built for exactly the season you're in. Anne-Marie and Anna are both in there. You can lurk, you can post, you can show up exactly as you are. → https://community.annemariezanzal.comDownload the Maybe I'm Not Straight Guide — If you're still holding the question quietly, this is a gentle place to start. → https://annemariezanzal.com/maybe-im-not-straight-guide/Email the show — Something from this episode landed with you? Write to the team at support@annemariezanzal.com#QueerCommunity #ComingOutLater #LaterInLifeLesbian #QueerBelonging #AuthenticallyUs
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  In the Nick of Time: Light Bird on Coming Out, Starting Over, and Making Music That Matters 27.03.2026 43min

  Five weeks before her wedding, Danni Hoshino was lying in bed next to her fiancée when something shifted. She asked herself a question she had never quite let herself ask — and then she knew.In this episode of Coming Out and Beyond, host Anne-Marie Zanzal sits down with Danni, a singer, songwriter, and guitarist who creates music under the name Light Bird. Her debut album, See Her, is a ten-song collection that moves through the uncertainty before transition, the fallout of coming out, and the unexpected beauty of finally living as yourself. They talk about what it felt like to come out fast — unapologetically, and all at once — and why Danni had no other way to do it. They talk about grief, about the relationships and houses and nine-to-five lives we leave behind, and about how sometimes an ending is also the only door forward.They also talk about music. How Danni set aside her artistic life for the security of a corporate career, and how coming out gave her back not just herself — but her voice. Her perspective. Her reason to create.The album's second single, Alright, releases on March 31st, 2026, in honor of Trans Day of Visibility. It's a bittersweet folk-country duet about the love that brought Danni to the moment she needed — and the grace it took to let it go.This one is for anyone who has ever asked a question they weren't sure they were allowed to ask, and found the answer change everything.Listen to Light Bird's single Alright, out today in honor of Trans Day of Visibility, on all major streaming platforms. Search Light Bird (two words) and follow @LightBirdMusic on social media for album updates — See Her releases in early June.If this conversation resonated, there's a place to keep going. Authentically Us is an ongoing community for women moving through identity transitions just like this one — for $39/month, you get connection, support, and a place where your story is welcome. www.community.annemariezanzal.com.Subscribe, leave a review, and share this episode with someone who needs to hear it. It matters more than you know.#TransDayOfVisibility #ComingOutAndBeyond #LightBirdMusic #QueerVoices #AuthenticLifeLight
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  What Lies Are You Telling Yourself? Kathy Houston on Waking Up to Who You Really Are 20.03.2026 49min

  What do you do when a single moment — a woman's hand on your thigh at a work dinner — unravels 45 years of the story you thought was yours?That's exactly what happened to Kathy Houston. A West Point graduate, U.S. Army officer, 30-year retail leader, wife, and mother of two — Kathy spent decades doing everything exactly right. She married the day after she was commissioned. She left the military to raise her kids rather than deploy to Desert Storm. She built a career, a family, a life. And she had absolutely no idea she was gay.Until she did.In this rich, funny, deeply honest conversation, Anne-Marie and Kathy talk about what it really looks like to come out at 50 — the five years of doing nothing after the first spark of awareness, the open marriage, the first relationship that cracked her heart open, the lesbian gatekeepers who told her she "wasn't really gay," and the neuroscience-backed mindset work that helped her finally build the life she couldn't have imagined but absolutely deserved.Kathy is now a later-in-life coming out coach, a TEDx speaker (What Lies Are You Telling Yourself?), and a certified Positive Intelligence coach. She brings the same discipline that got her through West Point and Desert Storm to helping women face the biggest truth of their lives — with clarity, courage, and a whole lot of hard-won wisdom.This episode also marks the re-launch of Coming Out & Beyond with a sharpened focus on women coming out later in life — late-blooming lesbians, married women questioning their sexuality, and women navigating midlife identity shifts after 30, 40, 50, and beyond. If that's you, you are home.In this episode:The Kmart training trip that changed Kathy's life forever — and the woman she never saw againWhy she did nothing for five years after realizing she might be gayOpening her marriage, her first lesbian relationship, and what "limerence" actually isLesbian gatekeepers — and why they're becoming less commonWhat the brain does to keep us stuck, and how neuroscience can help us get unstuckHer TEDx talk and the three questions she wants every woman to ask herselfBuilding a modern family (and best-friend status with her partner's ex-husband)Why the end — the happiness on the other side — is absolutely worth itIf you're spinning, you don't have to do it alone. Authentically Us is a private community for women questioning their sexuality and coming out later in life. Come find your people: www.annemariezanzal.comFind Kathy Houston at runyourlife.biz — and watch her TEDx talk, What Lies Are You Telling Yourself? https://youtu.be/2h4YKR8Gmsg?si=Rxi1haeq-_KAFP6B#LateBloomingLesbian #ComingOutLaterInLife #AuthenticallyUs #QueerWomen #MidlifeAwakening
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  🤔So... Are You Actually Ready to Date? 13.03.2026 46min

  Are you ready to date — or do you just want to be? There's a difference, and this episode of Coming Out and Beyond is here to help you figure that out.Anne-Marie is joined by the wonderful Barbara Rowlandson — dating coach, psychotherapist, and co-host of our monthly dating segment — for an honest, warm, and often hilarious conversation about what it really takes to step into the dating world as a woman who has come out later in life.From the chaos of the "messy middle" to love bombing red flags, from building queer community to figuring out who you even are after decades of partnered life — this episode covers it all.In this episode, we talk about:Why building community should come before dating (and where to find yours)The time and energy dating actually requires — and how to know if you have itWhat it means to know yourself well enough to say no to the wrong personRed flags and why being ghosted is actually a giftThe importance of vulnerability — and the brick walls we don't know we've builtWhy the queer dating pool is smaller, and why that changes the rulesCatalyst relationships: what they are, what they open up, and how to survive themIntimacy, readiness, and what "getting it on" really means for women like usThe surprising role of menopause in why so many women come out in their late 40s and 50sNext month's dating episode: We're talking about dating while you're still married — and what love bombing looks like and how to protect yourself. Don't miss it.🔗 Resources Mentioned📥 Dating Readiness Guide (free download from Lavender Dating) — Self-assess where you are on the readiness scale before you dive in. 👉 www.lavenderdating.com📥 Maybe I'm Not Straight Guide — The best of our work on coming out later in life, all in one place. If you're in the messy middle, this one's for you. 👉 https://annemariezanzal.com/maybe-im-not-straight-guide/🌸 Join Authentically Us — Our Mighty Networks community for women navigating identity transitions later in life. Community, connection, and people who get it — ready and waiting for you. 👉 annemariezanzal.com🗓️ This Authentic Life Cohort — Our 16-week group coaching program starts in May. Come through the messy middle with a whole cohort beside you. 👉 annemariezanzal.com💌 Work with Barbara Rowlandson — Dating coaching for women in exactly this season of life. 👉 Book a free connection call here: https://calendly.com/lavender-dating-team