The Argument
Jerusalem Demsas & Matthew Yglesias
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The Argument is a weekly debate podcast hosted by Jerusalem Demsas and Matthew Yglesias. Each episode features one host arguing a distinctive point of view on topics like affirmative action, internet anonymity, and liberal hypocrisy. The show aims to provide substantive discussions backed by facts and research, avoiding typical screaming matches or softball interviews. New episodes are released every Thursday.
Эпизоды
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#MeToo didn’t go far enough 06.08.2026 1ч 17минMany people say the #MeToo movement went too far. Jerusalem Demsas disagrees: she thinks it didn't go far enough. Matt Yglesias wants to talk about what the movement actually was, and worries about the risks of a leaderless movement without clear standards. They get into the difference between social and legal standards for misbehavior, why the Aziz Ansari story split the discourse, and what vibe shift actually took place. Plus a peer review of a new paper on migration, gentrification, and the people who prefer to move to better neighborhoods rather than fixing the ones they're in.(00:00) Jerusalem's hot take: #MeToo didn't go far enough(04:36) What Matt Yglesias thinks(08:24) The "abolish police" problem for #MeToo(09:54) Feminists using culture instead of the legal system(21:11) Aziz Ansari and unfair consequences(27:49) Social accountability vs. legal accountability(35:05) The gender gap on #MeToo (47:49) The Srinivasan essay and what #MeToo really was(01:02:52) Peer review: Move or fix the neighborhoodSupport the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.com New episodes every Thursday—subscribe so you never miss a debate!Once a month, The Argument podcast does a book club episode. This month we are reading Bowling Alone by Robert Putnam. Read along if you are interested, and comment with any questions/ideas you'd like us to explore!The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley. -
You don't actually want to buy a house 30.07.2026 57минMost Americans still see buying a home as the ultimate financial goal, but Jerusalem Demsas thinks homeownership is overrated. Matt Yglesias, a proud homeowner, disagrees. They get into why the American Dream might be a bad financial deal, what's really driving people's demand for stability, and whether the Singapore model has something to teach us. Plus a peer review of a new paper using Swedish lottery data to ask what money actually does to marriages.(00:00) Homeownership is overrated(04:42) The "only path to wealth" myth(10:16) The home equity piggy bank(17:25) The illiquidity problem(22:21) Homeownership brain(27:30) What everyone actually wants: stability(32:57) Rent control is back(35:28) A Singapore-style savings idea(45:17) The YIMBY case for more homeowners(46:45) Peer review: Lottery winners and marriageSupport the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.com New episodes every Thursday—subscribe so you never miss a debate!Once a month, The Argument podcast does a book club episode. This month we are reading Bowling Alone by Robert Putnam. Read along if you are interested, and comment with any questions/ideas you'd like us to explore!The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley. -
Why AI might not replace us after all 23.07.2026 1ч 5минMost Americans fear that AI is about to cause widespread job losses, so Matt Yglesias and Jerusalem Demsas brought in their first-ever guest, Timothy B. Lee of the Understanding AI newsletter, to break it all down. Matt thinks a white-collar wipeout is coming. Jerusalem and Tim think we've got enough time to adapt.Plus, a peer review on a new paper about the effects of mixed-use zoning. (00:00) Our first guest: Tim Lee on AI and jobs(02:27) Matt's case for the white-collar wipeout(05:43) Jobs are bundles of tasks(08:26) The O-ring theory: why one human still matters(18:02) Tim's answer: it's all about timescales(21:27) Chess, Starbucks, and the human preference problem(24:28) The protectionism scramble: gas pumps and self-driving trucks(30:47) The "canaries in the coal mine" study on young workers(38:45) Channeling 2015 Matt: just run a hotter economy(49:30) Peer review: What's actually wrong with zoning?Support the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.com New episodes every Thursday—subscribe so you never miss a debate!The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley. -
What AOC and Bernie Sanders get wrong about the oligarchy 16.07.2026 1ч 9минBernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez have been packing arenas on their "Fighting Oligarchy" tour, but Matt Yglesias doesn't think the oligarchy is real. Jerusalem Demsas is more sympathetic: donors really do get access that regular people can't, and the discomfort with that is about democracy, not policy outcomes. But the discourse frustrates her too, since "the oligarchy" shifts from a cabal of billionaires to the entire top 10 percent, depending on the argument. They also get into why the study Bernie cites doesn't show what he thinks it shows, how the Republican donor class spent a fortune failing to stop Trump, Mark Zuckerberg's gold-chain era, and the self-interested class that actually has captured American government: homeowners.Plus a peer review of a paper showing that immigration lowers mortality among the elderly, and what AI does to that argument.(00:00) Is the oligarchy real?(03:22) What donors actually buy: access and face time(12:52) Mark Zuckerberg, the most destructive billionaire(17:30) Citizens United and the money-buys-elections theory(21:51) Tom Steyer and the billionaires who lose(27:18) The real cabal: homeowners(34:29) The study Bernie cites (and what it actually shows)(41:04) Why small-d democracy is underrated(43:17) Money, media, and public reasoning(53:05) Peer review: Does immigration help the elderly live longer?Support the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.com New episodes every Thursday—subscribe so you never miss a debate!The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley. -
Was Jane Jacobs the first NIMBY? 09.07.2026 1ч 26минFor this month's book club, Jerusalem Demsas and Matt Yglesias read The Death and Life of Great American Cities, the 1961 classic that changed how everyone thinks about neighborhoods. Rereading it as YIMBYs, they find a book that's right about what makes a street feel alive and wrong about almost everything that followed: Jacobs's push to devolve power to the neighborhood level became the veto that now blocks new housing everywhere. They also get into why Jacobs ignored the economics of citie... -
Is assimilation racist? 02.07.2026 1ч 12минShould immigrants have to assimilate? Jerusalem Demsas and Matt Yglesias take on the growing idea that immigrants shouldn't have to assimilate to belong in America. Jerusalem, the daughter of immigrants, disagrees, and makes the case that assimilation is not only good for the country but that immigrants largely self-select for liking America. The conversation turns to patriotism, and why Jerusalem thinks the left has ceded the American flag to the right by defining the country entirely by its... -
The Biden legacy: A ranking of failures 25.06.2026 1ч 18минThe Bidens are back in the news, thanks to Jill Biden’s new book and Joe’s apparent difficulties raising money for his presidential library. So Jerusalem Demsas and Matthew Yglesias do the thing the party keeps avoiding: they rank the worst parts of Joe Biden's presidency, from the economy and inflation to immigration, Israel and Gaza, the Kamala Harris pick, and the decision to run for reelection at all. Plus a peer review of a new paper on why marriage is collapsing for non-college Am... -
Andrew Tate, Dan Bilzerian, and the death of romance 18.06.2026 1ч 4минIs online dating advice actually making it harder to find love? This week, Jerusalem Demsas and Matthew Yglesias wade into the world of online dating advice, from the manosphere influencers coaching men to treat women as opponents to the female-coded content teaching women to read every date as a minefield. Jerusalem and Matt find themselves split on what it's actually doing to us. Is this tactical advice a useful nudge for people who'd otherwise never take a risk, or a trap of stereoty... -
How environmentalists lost the plot 11.06.2026 1ч 12минIs modern environmentalism anti-progress? This week, Jerusalem Demsas and Matthew Yglesias read Rachel Carson's Silent Spring – the book that launched the modern environmental movement. Jerusalem and Matt find themselves surprised by what's actually in it. Is it a visionary scientific critique or a romantic backlash against modernity? And did Carson's legacy help or hurt the cause she championed? Plus: new research on whether leaving the workforce accelerates cognitive decline and what that m... -
Do we need to build God to cure cancer? 04.06.2026 58минAI companies keep promising it will cure cancer. But what does that actually mean — and would an AI capable of doing it be one we'd want to live alongside? Jerusalem Demsas and Kelsey Piper debated the question live in San Francisco, in front of a crowd of researchers, investors, and skeptics who had plenty to say about it. One of them is going to be very wrong. Listen and judge for yourself. (0:00) Is the AI trade-off worth it? (3:54) Are small wins good enough? (10:27) What woul... -
Why is crime falling everywhere? 28.05.2026 53минAmerica is on track for its lowest homicide year since 1900, but nobody seems to be celebrating. Matt Yglesias and Jerusalem Demsas debate why crime has dropped so dramatically and what caused the pandemic-era highs in the first place. Were the George Floyd and BLM protests to blame for the increase in crime? Were cops holding back because they felt disrespected? Or was it pandemic-era disruptions that caused the chaos? Together, they explore what it means for democratic accountability when o... -
Why Democrats and Republicans want you to pay $50,000 for a car 21.05.2026 57минThis week on The Argument, Jerusalem Demsas and Matthew Yglesias debate the tariffs on Chinese electric vehicles. Jerusalem argues that Americans should have access to cheaper, climate-friendly cars, while Matt says industrial policy requires a more cautious approach. They dive into the failure of Trump’s tariffs, what serious industrial policy looks like, and how the climate activists are once again missing the mark. (0:00) The BYD car that can jump over potholes (4:07) Climate activists mis... -
Did Joe Biden really kill Spirit Airlines? 14.05.2026 1ч 8минSpirit Airlines is dead and the right, true to form, is blaming Joe Biden. The immediate cause of Spirit's demise is pretty clear: the war with Iran spiked jet fuel costs, and the already-battered airline couldn't absorb the hit to its bottom line. Last we checked, Joe Biden didn't start any wars with Iran. In this episode, Matthew Yglesias and Jerusalem Demsas break down what really happened with Spirit Airlines, the weird history of aviation policy in the U.S., and the conspir... -
Boy moms and Nazi POWs: how "The Feminine Mystique" changed feminism 07.05.2026 1ч 5минBetty Friedan thought Korean POWs were dying in captivity because their mothers were housewives. She thought boy moms were making their sons gay. She wrote a whole chapter comparing suburban kitchens to concentration camps — in 1963, while America was still processing what concentration camps actually were. "The Feminine Mystique" is one of those important books that everyone "knows" but no one has actually read. For today's episode of The Argument podcast, Matthew Yglesias and ... -
Should we end asylum? 30.04.2026 1ч 12минMatthew Yglesias wants to end asylum. On a new episode of The Argument, Matt argues that the post-WWII asylum framework is not just politically untenable but practically unworkable. Jerusalem Demsas, true to form, disagrees. New episodes post every Thursday. For an ad-free version, show notes, and full transcript, subscribe at TheArgumentMag.com. Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Overcast | Pocket Casts Support the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and a... -
Can America still be a force for good? 23.04.2026 1ч 2минFor the past century, America's foreign interventions often carried the pretense of liberal idealism – to help bring peace and prosperity to people around the world. But it doesn't take a history scholar to know that positive outcomes weren't always the result. In the latest episode of the Argument, Jerusalem Demsas and Matthew Yglesias debate the merits of liberal hypocrisy, its benefits and drawbacks, and whether it's worth bringing it back. New episodes post every Th... -
Destroy the internet to save it? 16.04.2026 56минPeople tend to defend online anonymity by pointing to the long tradition of anonymous speech in American democracy. But modern anonymity is an entirely new beast. Should we ban anonymity on the internet? That's what The Argument's Jerusalem Demsas and Slow Boring's Matthew Yglesias debate in The Argument's latest episode. New episodes post every Thursday. You can find The Argument on Substack, YouTube, and wherever you get your podcasts. Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTu... -
Should Race Matter in College Admissions? 09.04.2026 1ч 9минWhen the Supreme Court rejected affirmative action at colleges and universities in 2023, finding that Harvard and the University of North Carolina practiced race-based discrimination against Asian American students, Chief Justice John Roberts wrote, "eliminating racial discrimination means eliminating all of it." The case, decided along ideological lines, caused a stir among progressives. But was this discrimination the inevitable consequence of affirmative action policies? Or did it si... -
Matthew Yglesias vs. Jerusalem Demsas: The Trailer 02.04.2026 1минWatch the official trailer for The Argument — a new podcast cohosted by Jerusalem Demsas and Matthew Yglesias. Has affirmative action gone too far? Should we abolish internet anonymity? Is liberal hypocrisy worth defending? Welcome to The Argument, a weekly podcast from Jerusalem Demsas and Matthew Yglesias, where two friends argue about politics, policy, and whatever else is on their minds. This is a debate show for people who want the nitty-gritty without the typical screaming matches or so... -
Stop Letting Instagram Explain Your Love Life -- The Science of Attraction 23.02.2026 1чAre men naturally promiscuous and drawn to younger women? Are women obsessed with tall, older, rich men? Dating discourse is littered with pop evolutionary psychology that makes broad claims about how men and women are under a thin veneer of scientific credibility. But how much of it is backed by real science? In this episode of The Argument, host Jerusalem Demsas interviews UC Davis psychology professor Paul Eastwick about his new book, Bonded by Evolution: The New Science of Love and Connec...
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