Mad in America: Rethinking Mental Health

Епизоде

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  When Stopping Prescription Drugs Isn't Simple: Alicia Martin and the TaperMate Story 16.09.2026 34мин

  Alicia Martin is an Australian community pharmacist, a member of the Not Broken Project and founder of TaperMate. Through her work in pharmacy, Alicia saw patients struggling with unusual and severe symptoms when they tried to stop their antidepressants and realized there was little support when people wanted to stop long-term medications. Rather than waiting for the system to catch up, she started building a solution. TaperMate now supports people across the world to track and adjust hyperbolic tapering plans through a simple mobile app and provides personalized tapering plans and advice for patients across Australia through a pharmacist-led telehealth tapering clinic. *** Thank you for being with us to listen to the podcast and read our articles this year. MIA is funded entirely by reader donations. If you value MIA, please help us continue to survive and grow. https://www.madinamerica.com/donate/ To find the Mad in America podcast on your preferred podcast player, click here: https://pod.link/1212789850 Sign up for our weekly newsletter: https://www.madinamerica.com/newsletter-sign-up/ © Mad in America 2026. Produced by James Moore https://www.jmaudio.org
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  First-Person Knowledge and the Meanings of Madness: An Interview with Gail Hornstein 02.09.2026 1ч 8мин

  Gail Hornstein is Professor Emerita of Psychology at Mount Holyoke College. Across a long and influential career, her work has moved between psychology, psychoanalysis, history, qualitative research, and the study of first-person accounts of madness. She is the author of To Redeem One Person Is to Redeem the World: The Life of Frieda Fromm-Reichmann, a biography of the pioneering psychiatrist and psychoanalyst best known for her intensive psychotherapeutic work with people diagnosed with schizophrenia and other psychoses. She is also the author of Agnes's Jacket: A Psychologist's Search for the Meanings of Madness, which explores what first-person narratives, asylum artifacts, patient memoirs, and the Hearing Voices Movementcan teach us about the meanings of madness and the limits of conventional psychiatric explanation. Dr. Hornstein is also the creator of the Bibliography of First-Person Narratives of Madness in English, which lists more than 1,000 books by people who have written about madness from their own experience. More recently, she has conducted extensive research on Hearing Voices Groups in the United States, examining how these groups work, the different functions they serve, and what members find useful about them. In 2019, Gail spoke with Mad in America about first-person accounts of madness and global mental health. In this conversation, we will begin with Gail's own intellectual formation and her early interest in psychological approaches that take subjective experience seriously. We will then turn to Frieda Fromm-Reichmann and the question of whether first-person accounts should be treated as clinical illustrations or as knowledge in their own right. From there, we will move into Agnes's Jacket, the Hearing Voices Movement, and Gail's recent research on what Hearing Voices Groups make possible for people who hear voices, have visions, or experience other extreme states.
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  Mad Studies Is More Than Lived Experience: An Interview with Merrick Daniel Pilling 19.08.2026 49мин

  Merrick Daniel Pilling is an Associate Professor and Interim Co-Director of the School of Disability Studies at Toronto Metropolitan University. He is the author of Queer and Trans Madness: Struggles for Social Justice and the co-editor of Interrogating Psychiatric Narratives of Madness: Documented Lives. His new book, Mad Studies: The Basics, introduces Mad Studies as a field that has emerged from community activism and the perspectives of people who have been psychiatrized, institutionalized, criminalized, and otherwise dehumanized by what Merrick refers to as the psy complex. It organizes itself around two basic questions: What can Mad Studies help us understand? And what can Mad Studies help us do? Those questions will guide our conversation today. We'll begin with Merrick's own path into this work, then move into psychiatric documentation and narrative, and then spend most of our time with Mad Studies: The Basics—its account of some origins of the field, its critique of psychiatric common sense, and its insistence that Mad Studies is simultaneously a way of interpreting the world and a form of critical praxis. *** Thank you for being with us to listen to the podcast and read our articles this year. MIA is funded entirely by reader donations. If you value MIA, please help us continue to survive and grow. https://www.madinamerica.com/donate/ To find the Mad in America podcast on your preferred podcast player, click here: https://pod.link/1212789850 © Mad in America 2026. Produced by James Moore https://www.jmaudio.org  
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  The West Doesn't Have All the Answers: An Interview with Dinesh Bhugra 12.08.2026 36мин

  Dinesh Bhugra is a leading voice in social and cultural psychiatry. He is Emeritus Professor of Mental Health and Cultural Diversity at King's College London and has served as president of the Royal College of Psychiatrists, the British Medical Association, and the World Psychiatric Association. His many honors include being named a Commander of the Order of the British Empire (CBE) for services to psychiatry and receiving the Yves Pelicier Prize for his contributions to social psychiatry. A prolific scholar who has authored or edited more than 30 books, Bhugra is also a clinician and a longtime advocate for patients' rights to be heard and understood on their own terms. Throughout his career, he has challenged psychiatry to look beyond symptoms and diagnoses and to attend more closely to culture, community, social conditions, and the lived realities of human suffering. In this interview, we discuss how mental health is shaped by interconnected social, political, geographical, and commercial forces, from poverty and migration to corporate lobbying and the conditions in which people work and live. Bhugra considers what clinicians can learn by listening to patients' own explanations of their experiences, and why symptoms may become more livable when people have meaningful relationships, work, security, and a sense of belonging. We also discuss the psychiatrization of society, the limits of exporting Western psychiatric categories across cultures, and the question of who gets to decide what counts as normal or pathological. *** Thank you for being with us to listen to the podcast and read our articles this year. MIA is funded entirely by reader donations. If you value MIA, please help us continue to survive and grow. https://www.madinamerica.com/donate/ To find the Mad in America podcast on your preferred podcast player, click here: https://pod.link/1212789850 © Mad in America 2026. Produced by James Moore https://www.jmaudio.org  
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  Go/No Go - How Mental Health Research Took a Wrong Turn: An Interview with Marianne Apostolides 29.07.2026 48мин

  Marianne Apostolides is the award-winning author of eight books, four of which have been translated and published internationally. She is a two-time recipient of the Chalmers Arts Fellowship and winner of the K.M. Hunter Award for Literature. Her books include I Can't Get You Out of My Mind, Deep Salt Water, Voluptuous Pleasure: The Truth about the Writing Life, and Swim. Moving across fiction, memoir, and literary nonfiction, her work often returns to the body, desire, memory, and the stories we tell about ourselves. Her latest book is Go/No-Go: A Journey Into the Research and Treatment of Mental Health Disorders, which has been called "required reading for anyone with a stake in mental health care." Marianne has described the book as beginning in 2022, during a period of creative and emotional crisis, when she encountered a research article that changed how she understood the human mind. In the prologue, she writes that we have "reached a dead end" in our current approach to mental health disorders. The book traces how we arrived there and where we might turn instead. *** Thank you for being with us to listen to the podcast and read our articles this year. MIA is funded entirely by reader donations. If you value MIA, please help us continue to survive and grow. https://www.madinamerica.com/donate/ To find the Mad in America podcast on your preferred podcast player, click here: https://pod.link/1212789850 © Mad in America 2026. Produced by James Moore https://www.jmaudio.org
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  Unlearn Your Pain: Harnessing the Power of Neuroplasticity – A Conversation With Howard Schubiner 15.07.2026 41мин

  Welcome to the Mad in America podcast. My name is Brooke Siem, and I am the author of the award-winning memoir on antidepressant withdrawal, May Cause Side Effects. Today, I'm excited to have Dr. Howard Schubiner on the show. Dr. Schubiner is an internist and a clinical professor at the Michigan State University College of Human Medicine and has authored more than 100 publications in scientific journals. He lectures internationally and is the author of three books, including his most recent book, Unlearn Your Pain: The Science of Recovering from Chronic Pain, Fatigue, Anxiety, and Depression. *** Thank you for being with us to listen to the podcast and read our articles this year. MIA is funded entirely by reader donations. If you value MIA, please help us continue to survive and grow. https://www.madinamerica.com/donate/ To find the Mad in America podcast on your preferred podcast player, click here: https://pod.link/1212789850 © Mad in America 2026. Produced by James Moore https://www.jmaudio.org
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  The Empire of Madness: Why Psychiatry Must Rethink Human Suffering - An Interview with Khameer Kidia 08.07.2026 48мин

  Khameer Kidia is a physician and an anthropologist, works at Harvard Medical School and the University of Zimbabwe, and spends his life between Washington DC and Harare. Kidia has many accolades to his name – he is a Rhodes scholar and a 2023 New America Fellow. His papers have appeared in elite medical journals and his stories in the New York Times. His recent book, which we will discuss, was covered by The Washington Post. His experience navigating two cultures and his expertise across disciplines is what allows him to see that psychiatry, as it currently stands, needs to end. In this interview, we discuss how the tentacles of an exploitative global order reach into people to wreak havoc with their lives and in their minds. Disclosing his own difficult history with stimulant medications, he exposes how current psychiatric practices superficially anesthetize pain in order to return us back on the hamster wheel of productivity. Sharing his mother's struggles with 'nervous breakdowns', Kidia shows us the importance of patient autonomy and liberty, and the grace in letting go when people choose a path that doesn't align with our priorities. *** Thank you for being with us to listen to the podcast and read our articles this year. MIA is funded entirely by reader donations. If you value MIA, please help us continue to survive and grow. https://www.madinamerica.com/donate/ To find the Mad in America podcast on your preferred podcast player, click here: https://pod.link/1212789850 © Mad in America 2026. Produced by James Moore https://www.jmaudio.org
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  A Mother's Journey Through Psychiatric Drug Harm and Healing 01.07.2026 24мин

  Chelsea McVeigh began her journey with psychiatric medications at 16, never imagining where it would lead. At 31, during a new pregnancy, she suffered a severe adverse reaction that turned her world upside down. After years of fighting to reclaim her health and sense of self, she's now 37, a mother of two incredible boys and living proof that healing is possible even after the unimaginable. *** Thank you for being with us to listen to the podcast and read our articles this year. MIA is funded entirely by reader donations. If you value MIA, please help us continue to survive and grow. https://www.madinamerica.com/donate/ To find the Mad in America podcast on your preferred podcast player, click here: https://pod.link/1212789850 © Mad in America 2026. Produced by James Moore https://www.jmaudio.org
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  Using Lived Experience to Challenge Systemic Prescriber Inexperience in Antidepressant Withdrawal 24.06.2026 27мин

  Carla Delgado is a San Diego native with eight years of experience in healthcare and a master's in healthcare administration. She also has a personal story of SSRI withdrawal, and we discuss how her background in healthcare administration helped to navigate the healthcare system, which has not been that friendly for people experiencing antidepressant withdrawal. *** Thank you for being with us to listen to the podcast and read our articles this year. MIA is funded entirely by reader donations. If you value MIA, please help us continue to survive and grow. https://www.madinamerica.com/donate/ To find the Mad in America podcast on your preferred podcast player, click here: https://pod.link/1212789850 © Mad in America 2026. Produced by James Moore https://www.jmaudio.org
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  Mercy, Magic, and the Medical Humanities: An Interview with Jussi Valtonen 10.06.2026 49мин

  Jussi Valtonen is a neuropsychologist, an adjunct researcher with the Finnish Centre for Evidence-Based Orthopedics (FICEBO), a professor of writing at the University of the Arts Helsinki, and a columnist for the Finnish Medical Journal. He works clinically as a neuropsychologist, and his research and writing sit at the crossroads of mind and brain through the health humanities. Jussi is an award-winning novelist as well. His novel They Know Not What They Do won Finland's top literary prize and has been translated into multiple languages. Alongside his scholarly work, he leads the Health, Narrative, and the Arts initiative at Uniarts Helsinki, which offers training in narrative skills for professionals in healthcare and social work and brings literary, artistic, and humanistic ways of thinking into conversation with clinical care. In this conversation, we turn to Jussi's recent work helping to build narrative medicine groups in Finland, first with clinicians and now increasingly with neurological patients, as well as to his broader effort to show why the humanities are one of the rare places where clinicians and patients alike can recover forms of attention, listening, interpretation, and moral imagination that dehumanized healthcare systems work to erode. *** Thank you for being with us to listen to the podcast and read our articles this year. MIA is funded entirely by reader donations. If you value MIA, please help us continue to survive and grow. https://www.madinamerica.com/donate/ To find the Mad in America podcast on your preferred podcast player, click here: https://pod.link/1212789850 © Mad in America 2026. Produced by James Moore https://www.jmaudio.org
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  Anthropology, Arctic Iceland and Antidepressant Withdrawal: A Conversation With Fiona Frenzen 03.06.2026 37мин

  Born in Germany and raised in Denmark, Fiona Frenzen is a qualified teacher with a master's degree in anthropology. For years, she had a dream about living in Iceland, seeking the grounding and healing effect of nature. But due to her health challenges and severe withdrawal syndrome, this dream seemed unrealistic. However, this past fall, she moved to a rural part of Iceland where she began teaching at the local elementary and high school. She dreams about putting her degree in anthropology to use by working in research and contributing to the awareness of the risks of antidepressants and the difficulties of withdrawal. *** Thank you for being with us to listen to the podcast and read our articles this year. MIA is funded entirely by reader donations. If you value MIA, please help us continue to survive and grow. https://www.madinamerica.com/donate/ To find the Mad in America podcast on your preferred podcast player, click here: https://pod.link/1212789850 © Mad in America 2026. Produced by James Moore https://www.jmaudio.org
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  Meeting Life Unmedicated: Aging, Protracted Withdrawal and Healing - A Conversation With Marsha Zaritsky 27.05.2026 32мин

  Marsha Zaritsky is a licensed mental health therapist certified in Internal Family Systems. She joins us to explain how her experience with polypharmacy and psychiatric drug withdrawal has changed and informed how she practices. *** Thank you for being with us to listen to the podcast and read our articles this year. MIA is funded entirely by reader donations. If you value MIA, please help us continue to survive and grow. https://www.madinamerica.com/donate/ To find the Mad in America podcast on your preferred podcast player, click here: https://pod.link/1212789850 © Mad in America 2026. Produced by James Moore https://www.jmaudio.org
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  Faith, Culture, and Coercion: An Interview with Cultural Psychiatrist G. Eric Jarvis 20.05.2026 47мин

  Eric Jarvis is a Professor of Psychiatry at McGill University whose work brings attention to areas often overlooked in mainstream psychiatry, including religion, coercion, the social determinants of psychosis, and culture. He directs the Cultural Consultation Service, the First Episode Psychosis Program, and the Culture and Psychosis Working Group at the Jewish General Hospital, and is Editor-in-Chief of Transcultural Psychiatry. His research looks closely at how religious belief, spiritual practice, moral worlds, language, migration, racism, and social context shape how people experience distress, meaning, and healing. In this conversation, we explore how faith, culture, and power shape mental health practice. We discuss Jarvis's work on religion and spirituality in cultural psychiatry, his research on culture and the social causes of psychosis, and his studies of coercion in first-episode psychosis. We also talk about category fallacies, looping effects, and what happens when biomedical explanations of suffering collide with spiritual, familial, and community-based understandings of distress. *** Thank you for being with us to listen to the podcast and read our articles this year. MIA is funded entirely by reader donations. If you value MIA, please help us continue to survive and grow. https://www.madinamerica.com/donate/ To find the Mad in America podcast on your preferred podcast player, click here: https://pod.link/1212789850 © Mad in America 2026. Produced by James Moore https://www.jmaudio.org
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  Kindling Our Inner Fire: A Residential Program Where Drug Tapering is the Norm 06.05.2026 40мин

  Beatrice Birch is the Founder and Director of Inner Fire, a residential program in rural Vermont, which is unique in one particular way. It provides support for tapering from psychiatric drugs, including antipsychotics, which is an essential aspect of the therapy. In this interview, Beatrice introduces Inner Fire, tells us about the programme and staff and explains how kindling our inner fire can hold up a mirror that tells people they are worthy and valuable. *** Thank you for being with us to listen to the podcast and read our articles this year. MIA is funded entirely by reader donations. If you value MIA, please help us continue to survive and grow. https://www.madinamerica.com/donate/ To find the Mad in America podcast on your preferred podcast player, click here: https://pod.link/1212789850 © Mad in America 2026. Produced by James Moore https://www.jmaudio.org
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  The Madness Pill: How Psychedelics and Stimulants Shaped Biological Psychiatry — An Interview with Justin Garson 29.04.2026 44мин

  Justin Garson is a philosopher and historian of science at the City University of New York. He has published several books and articles on biology, the mind, and madness, including Madness: A Philosophical Exploration in 2022. He also contributes to Psychology Today and Aeon. His latest book, The Madness Pill: One Doctor's Quest to Understand Schizophrenia, was published by St. Martin's Press in April 2026. In this interview, Justin joins us to talk about the work of Solomon Snyder, whose discoveries ushered in the era of biological psychiatry. We also talk about the race to develop new psychiatric drugs based on his research and the implications for our understanding of psychosis. *** Thank you for being with us to listen to the podcast and read our articles this year. MIA is funded entirely by reader donations. If you value MIA, please help us continue to survive and grow. https://www.madinamerica.com/donate/ To find the Mad in America podcast on your preferred podcast player, click here: https://pod.link/1212789850 © Mad in America 2026. Produced by James Moore https://www.jmaudio.org
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  Finding God and Leaving Psychiatry: An Interview With Kelsey Osgood 22.04.2026 45мин

  Kelsey Osgood is the author of How to Disappear Completely: on Modern Anorexia, which was chosen for the Barnes and Noble Discover Great Writers New Program. Her work has appeared online and in print at The Atlantic, The New York Times, Harper's and The New Yorker, among other outlets. In this interview we talk about Kelsey's new book Godstruck: Seven Women's Unexpected Journeys to Religious Conversion and her experiences with anorexia and psychiatric drugs. *** Thank you for being with us to listen to the podcast and read our articles this year. MIA is funded entirely by reader donations. If you value MIA, please help us continue to survive and grow. https://www.madinamerica.com/donate/ To find the Mad in America podcast on your preferred podcast player, click here: https://pod.link/1212789850 © Mad in America 2026. Produced by James Moore https://www.jmaudio.org
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  "Everybody Can Recover": Fighting Psychiatric Subjectivation and Helping Others Along the Way: An Interview with Prateeksha Sharma 15.04.2026 34мин

  Psychosis and conditions like Schizophrenia have been tainted with pessimism right from the beginning. Doctors often don't know that recovery is possible and can convey this fatalism to their patients. Prateeksha Sharma's lived experience and research work challenges this pessimism. Prateeksha is a musician, a researcher, a composer, a counselor, and a writer. However, for the longest time, she was only thought of as a patient. She is a distinguished research fellow at the National Academy of Legal Studies and Research in Hyderabad and the founder of Brightside Family Counseling Center. She received a diagnosis of bipolar disorder as a college student and has managed these achievements while navigating the horrors and the gifts of psychosis. Prateeksha's writings critically examine psychiatric systems and foreground survivor perspectives. She brings intellectual depth and personal clarity to what it means to move from being labeled a patient, to being recognized as a person. In this interview, we discuss psychiatric subjectivation, medical zombification, the silencing effects of diagnosis, and how lived experience completely reshapes the conversation about mental health. *** Thank you for being with us to listen to the podcast and read our articles this year. MIA is funded entirely by reader donations. If you value MIA, please help us continue to survive and grow. https://www.madinamerica.com/donate/ To find the Mad in America podcast on your preferred podcast player, click here: https://pod.link/1212789850 © Mad in America 2026. Produced by James Moore https://www.jmaudio.org
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  The Fight for the Soul of Psychotherapy: An Interview with Linda Michaels 08.04.2026 1ч 11мин

  Linda Michaels is a psychologist in private practice in Chicago and a co-founder of the Psychotherapy Action Network (PsiAN). She trained at the Illinois School of Professional Psychology and completed the Psychoanalytic Psychotherapy program at the Chicago Psychoanalytic Institute. Before becoming a clinician, she worked in marketing, innovation, and management consulting, including work with organizations in the U.S. and Latin America. Michaels is the chair and co-founder of PsiAN, a public-facing effort focused on helping people understand different forms of psychotherapy and advocate for the kind of care they are seeking. She is also a Consulting Editor at Psychoanalytic Inquiry and Clinical Associate Faculty at the Chicago Center for Psychoanalysis. She is currently a Fellow at the Lauder Institute Global MBA program. In this conversation, we trace her path from market research to psychotherapy and then to organizing. We talk about what clients say they want from therapy and how training, insurance, and digital platforms have reshaped the conditions under which psychotherapy is practiced and accessed. We also discuss her writing and research, including PsiAN's national survey work on public attitudes toward therapy ("Going Beneath the Surface: What People Want from Therapy") and a follow-up paper published in 2025 ("The Therapy World Has Changed: Where are We Now?"). We talk about her 2025 article in The American Psychoanalyst, "Corporations in the Consulting Room: What do we stand for, and what stands in our way?" and her edited volume, Advancing Psychotherapy for the Next Generation: Humanizing Mental Health Policy and Practice. Linda also recounts some of the advocacy work she's done and the adversity PsiAN has faced, including being sued by a major therapy platform, as well as how institutional alliances across our professional organizations are reshaping the contemporary mental health marketplace. *** Thank you for being with us to listen to the podcast and read our articles this year. MIA is funded entirely by reader donations. If you value MIA, please help us continue to survive and grow. https://www.madinamerica.com/donate/ To find the Mad in America podcast on your preferred podcast player, click here: https://pod.link/1212789850 © Mad in America 2026. Produced by James Moore https://www.jmaudio.org
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  Examining Psychiatric Medication Tapering and Withdrawal: The Evolving Role of Pharmacists — A Conversation with Agnes Higgins and Cathal Cadogan 01.04.2026 32мин

  Welcome to the Mad in America podcast, my name is James. Today, we are discussing the experiences of people who have attempted to stop taking psychiatric drugs. These experiences are captured in a survey undertaken by the School of Pharmacy and Pharmaceutical Sciences, Trinity College, Dublin, Ireland. Joining me to talk about this work are Cathal Cadogan and Agnes Higgins, both from Trinity College. Cathal is an Associate Professor in Practice of Pharmacy at Trinity College. His research focuses on developing supports to help people make informed decisions about starting and stopping psychiatric medication. He was recently involved in a priority setting partnership to identify priorities for future research on reducing and discontinuing psychiatric medicines. Agnes is a nurse, researcher and academic who has recently retired as a professor in mental health at the School of Nursing and Midwifery at Trinity College. She is a former Chairperson of the Board of Mental Health Reform, Ireland's leading service user organization, campaigning for improvements in mental health services. She is also currently a board member of Kyrie Farm, an innovative initiative combining the benefits of nature, meaningful participation, community and therapy to support mental health recovery. Their work is part of a wider examination of priorities for future research on reducing and stopping psychiatric medication, and we'll talk about this as well as the findings of their survey. We'll also talk about the role that pharmacists could potentially play when people are considering stopping their psychiatric drugs. *** Thank you for being with us to listen to the podcast and read our articles this year. MIA is funded entirely by reader donations. If you value MIA, please help us continue to survive and grow. https://www.madinamerica.com/donate/ To find the Mad in America podcast on your preferred podcast player, click here: https://pod.link/1212789850 © Mad in America 2026. Produced by James Moore https://www.jmaudio.org
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  Spiritual Emergency and the Collective Work of Staying Alive: An Interview with Nisha Gupta 25.03.2026 48мин

  Nisha Gupta is an existential phenomenologist, a depth psychotherapist, a creativity scholar, and an artist. She's an Associate Professor of Psychology at the University of West Georgia and earned her PhD in clinical psychology from Duquesne University in Pittsburgh. She's also, if she doesn't mind me saying, a bit of a rising star as an early career psychologist, having won early career awards from the APA divisions for both humanistic and qualitative psychology. Dr. Gupta's work centers on lived experience and the problems of form and method in the field. She is an advocate of the psychological humanities, disseminating psychology to the public as art, including paintings, film, poetry, and literary memoir, for community healing and social change. Her artwork seeks to raise critical consciousness and empowerment regarding marginalized lived experiences, such as sexual and gender oppression, creative madness, and spiritual emergencies. In psychotherapy practice, she integrates depth and liberation psychotherapy perspectives. In this conversation, we talk about phenomenological filmmaking and what film can capture about distress, identity, time, and relationships that often elude other approaches to psychological research. We also talk about spiritual emergency and the phrase "dark night of the soul," including the difference between those frameworks and the more familiar language of symptoms and disorders. Dr. Gupta also shares her own experience of navigating a spiritual emergency as a clinical psychologist. We discuss what helped, what did not, what clinicians tend to miss in these situations, and what it would mean to build a better set of responses around people going through them. Finally, we discuss liberation psychology and collective resilience, including the question of how to think about suffering when its sources are social and political, and how to avoid reducing resilience to individual "grit." *** Thank you for being with us to listen to the podcast and read our articles this year. MIA is funded entirely by reader donations. If you value MIA, please help us continue to survive and grow. https://www.madinamerica.com/donate/ To find the Mad in America podcast on your preferred podcast player, click here: https://pod.link/1212789850 © Mad in America 2026. Produced by James Moore https://www.jmaudio.org