Copywriters Podcast

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  The Persuasion Power of IMperfection 14.09.2026 29мин

  It turns out in the larger world of culture and fashion, we’ve reached a breaking point. This is important for copywriting because of something we’ve always known and practiced, and today we’re going to take a wide-ranging look at the opposing forces of perfection, which is not real, and authenticity, which is not perfect.Both perfection and authenticity have been used to sell stuff.And we’ve seen a lot of people, especially in social media, stretching notions of perfection about as far as it can go.So the perfection trend seems to have reached the breaking point I was just talking about.I saw this in an interesting article exploring the trend in Bloomberg Businessweek:“We’ve been looking at perfect faces and vacations and homes on Instagram for more than 15 years, and on TikTok for most of a decade, during which time creators have pursued new audiences by pushing what already works further toward a logical extreme—the uncanny perfection of everything. “At this point so little is left to upgrade, they’re now positing ways to improve the color of one’s armpit skin.”The article is titled “The Optimization Backlash Has Begun,” and it’s all about how people are really getting tired of having images and standards of false perfectionism rammed down their throats.Writer Amanda Mull took a good look at the new trend: Showing your flaws as part of marketing, movies and social media.We’ll go much further than the recent past to set the stage, and then burrow into some great ways you can take advantage of this trend in your copy and video marketing.RESOURCE:The Persuasion Story Codehttps://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CFD2KXNQ
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  Old Masters Series: Robert Collier 07.09.2026 32мин

  He is known for one of the most famous sayings in copywriting: “Enter the conversation already going on in the prospect’s mind.”Yet most copywriters don’t know much about him, or even who he is.That would be Robert Collier, who introduced the concept to copywriting 90 years ago, when he published The Robert Collier Letter Book.I first learned about the book from Gary Halbert, more than 30 years ago. Halbert said it was one of a handful of books every copywriter needs to read.Robert Collier himself used direct mail to sell all kinds of stuff. He sold raincoats for $14.65 by mail. Made-to-measure suits for $37.50. Sets of books. Magazine subscriptions. And Collier tested everything. When a letter worked, he wanted to know why. When it flopped, he wanted to know that, too.The Robert Collier Letter Book is where he showcased his work. You get a chance to look at what he wrote, and read about the reasoning behind his decisions.We went through the book and pulled out seven lessons. Each one starts with Collier's own words and then we'll talk about what each lesson means for you, today, whether you’re writing Facebook ads, youtube scripts, or full-fledged sales letters.RESOURCES:The Robert Collier Letter Bookhttps://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GKQPG89G The Persuasion Story Codehttps://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CFD2KXNQ
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  Back To School For Copywriters 31.08.2026 29мин

  Somewhere near you, right now, there's a store with a whole aisle of spiral notebooks marked down to 79 cents.The gargantuan engines of the big yellow buses are getting tuned up or are already tuned up and ready to roll. Pencils are getting sharpened. And millions of kids are about to get something most adults never get anymore:A fresh start. A new year of learning.Think about that. Students get new supplies, new subjects, new teachers.All kinds of fun, and discovery, and spitballs from the back of the class.Meanwhile, what do we get? Nothing. As copywriters and business owners, we just keep working. Sadly, for us, there's no first day where everything smells like fresh pencil shavings and great possibilities.Unless, of course, we build that first day ourselves.So today, we're going back to school, but in a WAY different way than you did when you were a kid.Everything on the agenda is designed to do one of two things: either sharpen a skill you use to make money, or refresh your imagination that is so vital to the work we do.SUMMARY1. Recess- Buy something fun from an ecommerce site and take notes on every piece of messaging.- Buy something else and enjoy it without taking a single note.- Take a real walk with no phone, no podcast, no earbuds. If you are a fan of situational awareness, you would be in condition yellow.2. School Supplies- Pay for at least one AI subscription and actually use it.- Start a swipe file, or clean out the one you already have.- Get a real notebook and a pen you actually like to use.3. Books- Read Obvious Adams, by Robert Updegraff.https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00T14VCJE- Read a bestseller — something easy and fun.- Read one of my books: Advertising Headlines That Make You Rich, https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00513MQ2G/Breakthrough Copywritinghttps://www.amazon.com/dp/1548706957The Persuasion Story Codehttps://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CFD2KXNQ4. Extra Curricular Activities- Go out to a movie and pay attention to the people, the film, and the marketing.- Hand-copy some pages of fiction and some great copy, to get a sense of the rhythm and feel.- Interview one real customer and write down their exact words.5. Free Time- Learn to turn your brain off from work.- Binge-watch something on Netflix.- Listen to a new kind of music just to rattle or soothe your brain.
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  Protecting Your Freelance Business, With Copywriter Kim Krause Schwalm 24.08.2026 32мин

  How do you make the transition from having a job to being a freelance copywriter?Or, maybe more to the point, if you’re already a freelancer, how do you do what you do and get all the advantages of being a business?Most copywriters don’t know. It took me years to find out and figure it out myself.Today we’re going to drastically shorten the learning curve for a lot of listeners. Our returning champion is Kim Krause Schwalm.Not only has she made this transition–from Publisher to freelancer–herself, getting established as a top A-list copywriting and making millions of dollars for her freelance clients…But Kim has also mentored dozens of copywriters, marketers, and business owners. She knows what it takes to get the best of both worlds–having a job, and having your own business–and she has helped many other people enjoy those advantages.Today, she’s going to share those secrets.Resources:Kim’s book Client Badassery Secrets is available in print or as an e-book from Amazon and other online booksellers. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CGV7MZ8PAnd to find out more about Kim’s copywriting trainings or to get on her email list, go to www.KimSchwalm.com. 
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  The Magic Power of DON’T 17.08.2026 34мин

  Nathan came up with the idea for this show, and it started, of all places, in his mom’s kitchen.Here’s what happened: If Mom says dinner will be ready in 30 minutes, Nathan is much less likely to go digging through the fridge.So if she wanted to stop him from digging through the fridge, she wouldn’t have to say a word about the fridge. She could just start cooking dinner.Think about that for a second. No argument. No lecture. No “get out of the fridge.”Just one piece of information—and an entire behavior stops in its tracks.When Nathan told me this, I had one of those moments where you realize you’ve been looking at something really important your whole career, without ever really seeing it.By that I mean, the insanely simple power of copy to STOP you from doing something.Here’s why I didn’t see that:Every copywriting formula out there is built to do the opposite. To get someone to START a behavior. To push people toward taking action.But there’s a whole nother side of influence that almost nobody in our business talks about. Not because it doesn’t work. It does.People don’t talk about it because it’s never been named and explained.Today, we’re gonna change all that.We’re talking about using copy to DISsuade people – to STOP a behavior that’s standing between your prospect and the sale (or between your son and his dinner).We’re going to look at how this technique works, why it’s so powerful, and how you can add it to your skill set, today.
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  The Master Key To Persuasion 10.08.2026 33мин

  I was rummaging around on youtube when I came across this video with an outrageous claim:“This book literally teaches you to think like a Harvard lawyer.”My skepticism shot into high gear, but when I watched the video, from a youtube educator named Stephan L. Petro, I saw he was on the level.I’ll tell you about the book in a minute. It’s really valuable for any copywriter, because it will help you sharpen up your sales argument quite a bit.But more important, it has one idea called “the bridge” which most experienced copywriters do automatically but most beginners miss out on–and this idea can make all the difference between whether your copy works.Now, we’re not lawyers, but in some ways we do the same thing, so it will be worthwhile to find out more about this book and what it means to us as copywriters.ResourcesThe Uses of Argument, by Stephen E. Toulminhttps://www.amazon.com/Uses-Argument-Stephen-Toulmin/dp/0521534836The Persuasion Story Codehttps://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CFD2KXNQ
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  More Screenwriting Secrets For Copywriters 03.08.2026 28мин

  This week I had a great conversation with a Hollywood screenwriting coach and screenwriter himself, and it reminded me about how much people in Hollywood know that copywriters can learn and use.One of his most important points was there are structures that make stories work. Not rigid formulas or two-dimensional templates, but guidelines with benchmarks that have proven time and time again to act as a container for great stories.I was reminded that we’re not always talking hero’s journey when we look at stories. I went back into some of my own research and found some more micro-story structures that we as copywriters can adapt to make our own copy that much more compelling.We did this a couple months ago when we talked about The Dark Knight, Inception and Rocky.Today I’ve got three new story types that will add a little Hollywood intrigue to our sales letters, sales funnels, websites and VSLs. Really, to any type of copy.RESOURCE:The Persuasion Story Codehttps://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CFD2KXNQ
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  Old Masters Series, Advertising’s Founder, Albert Lasker Part 3 27.07.2026 36мин

  Today we’re continuing with Part 3 of our Old Masters Series, focusing on the contributions of Albert Lasker. That’s because in 1898, Albert Lasker arrived in Chicago to work at Lord and Thomas, which he took over in only a few years.And what Lasker and the copywriters he hired would do over the next 10 years would change the course of advertising.We’ve covered lessons in Parts 1 and 2 of this Old Masters Series. Particularly, lessons for direct-response marketers.Today we’re going to cover the last four lessons and then broaden our lens, because Lasker in fact had major and lasting impacts on our CULTURE, and he hasn’t gotten all that much credit for it as far as I’ve been able to tell.So now’s the perfect time, since I think you’ll find some of the most important changes he caused to be interesting and possibly very useful in your own world.Resources:The Man Who Sold America, by Jeffrey L. Cruikshank and Arthur W Schultz https://www.amazon.com/Man-Who-Sold-America-Advertising-ebook/dp/B003SNJYTYThe Persuasion Story Codehttps://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CFD2KXNQ
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  Will AI Shopping Make Copywriting Obsolete? 20.07.2026 28мин

  The world of copywriting and ecommerce almost changed forever last September 29, when Open AI launched something called Instant Checkout.This new service was designed to let you seamlessly buy something right from Chat GPT.Instant Checkout crashed and burned over the next six months for a number of reasons.One, the infrastructure wasn’t there to let it happen. It was launched before there were enough figurative runways, air traffic control towers, connections between Chat GPT and merchants, and other things like that.Two, the cost to merchants was really out of line:7% per transaction, more than double what they were paying when customers came directly to their site.They shut it down in March. Not forever; just, for now.So Instant Checkout was an early attempt at what’s called Agentic Shopping, where you order right from the AI and an AI agent does a lot of the heavy lifting for you.We’re most likely 3-5 years out from Agentic Shopping becoming a widespread reality.But when it does, our world as copywriters will change. In a big way.We’re going to look at how, and what you can do to prepare for this inevitable future, today.
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  Part 2- Old Masters Series, Advertising’s Founder, Albert Lasker 13.07.2026 33мин

  Today we’re continuing with our Old Masters Series focus on the contributions of Albert Lasker. This is Part 2.Lasker is the one person in history who, more than anyone else, created the foundation for what advertising is today—at least direct response advertising.On today’s show, we’re going to review some more of the most important lessons we have learned resulting from his innovations more than 100 years ago.Here’s the short version of his history:At age 18, Albert Lasker arrived in Chicago to take a job at the Chicago ad agency Lord and Thomas. The year was 1898.And the location was in the Trude Building, at the corner of North Wabash Avenue and East Randolph Street. A little less than a mile south of where I worked for McGraw-Hill, on Michigan and Erie, when I lived in Chicago in the early 1980s.But back to 1898. What Lasker and the copywriters he hired would do over the next 10 years would change the course of advertising. Today we cover eight more lessons from Lasker.Resources:The Man Who Sold America, by Jeffrey L. Cruikshank and Arthur W Schultz https://www.amazon.com/Man-Who-Sold-America-Advertising-ebook/dp/B003SNJYTYThe Persuasion Story Codehttps://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CFD2KXNQ
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  Old Masters Series– Advertising’s Founder, Albert Lasker 06.07.2026 32мин

  Albert Lasker didn't just become one of advertising's biggest names—he helped invent the way modern direct response marketing works.In this episode of the Old Masters Series, we explore the principles that transformed advertising from clever announcements into measurable sales systems. You'll hear the stories behind the ideas that influenced generations of copywriters, from Claude Hopkins to David Ogilvy, and why many of those lessons still outperform today's marketing trends.If you've ever wondered why some ads persuade while others are forgotten, this episode traces the origins of the answer.The tools may have changed. Human psychology hasn't.Resources:The Man Who Sold America, by Jeffrey L. Cruikshank and Arthur W Schultz https://www.amazon.com/Man-Who-Sold-America-Advertising-ebook/dp/B003SNJYTYAdvertising Headlines That Make You Rich, https://www.amazon.com/Advertising-Headlines-That-Make-Rich-ebook/dp/B00513MQ2G
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  Copywriting Secrets Of
Human Nature, With Andrew Gould 29.06.2026 37мин

  Our special guest today didn’t start out planning to be a copywriter, but found his way into it after posting online reviews of his favorite martial arts movies in college, and getting his writing compared to that of Dan Kennedy.He looked up Dan and found what he had to say interesting. But he didn’t become a copywriter or a marketer at the time. Instead, he finished his degree and went from job to job for a few years until he landed in sales, where he ended up doing really well. 12 years after his first internet posting came the crash of 2009. Andrew Gould was the top salesman at his company at the time. But the company itself went under, and Andrew was out of a job. It was then he remembered Dan, and found his way into copywriting.That was 17 years ago.Since then, Andrew has racked up about $150 million in sales for his clients. He’s always been a freelancer and he’s written copy for companies in niches ranging from self-defense to joint mobility to power generators.He’s also taken several hobby businesses from a few thousand dollars a month to $50K and even $100K a month.Copywriters Andrew has coached have had multiple six-figure launches across a wide variety of niches.Andrew says he’s not a great writer himself, but what has helped him do so well is his research.And I quote:“I focus on becoming the audience I’m writing for. For example, I’ve taken hot yoga classes this year for an offer I’m writing.”Andrew told me he loves to focus on the fundamentals, which is something we both have in common. Andrew has a very systematic and easy approach to the fundamentals of understanding people, which ties right into his extraordinary accomplishments in research and the resulting sales.I think this is incredibly valuable information that is not talked about very much, but should be.Andrew agreed to share this approach with us today, and I was really excited to hear what he had to say.You can contact Andrew on X online, at https://x.com/AndrewWriteCopy 
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  Sales- Friendly Content Marketing 22.06.2026 35мин

  Last week, we did a show on how content marketing is failing direct marketers when you do it the way everyone else does it.Basically, social media encourages you to crave attention and approval, instead of get results.Nathan asked me if we could a completely different version of the show, where we focus on including direct response elements in our content marketing.I thought that was a great idea! So, we’ll do that, and cover the use of direct response thinking and techniques in social media, articles, videos and emails.RESOURCESMy books:The Persuasion Story Codehttps://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CFD2KXNQBreakthrough Copywritinghttps://www.amazon.com/dp/1548706957Mentoring:https://garfinkelcoaching.com
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  A-List Copywriter Bullet Secrets, With Kim Krause Schwalm 15.06.2026 35мин

  Our returning champion today is Kim Krause Schwalm, and she is going to share some amazing and unique information with you.The late Clayton Makepiece, a legend himself in copywriting, said, and I quote: “Kim Krause Schwalm is one of the hottest copywriters alive.”Here’s a little background:Kim was always a marketer who could write copy. Before she launched her freelance career in 1998, she spent years in corporate marketing — from Brand Manager to Publisher — including building the Healthy Directions supplement business to the equivalent of nearly $40 million in sales within its first three years. But we’re talking to Kim today as one of the top A-list direct response copywriters in the country. She's racked up dozens of controls, beat legendary copywriters head-to-head, and was the first female copywriter to create a package that became a Boardroom control. Her clients have included Bottom Line, National Geographic, Green Valley Natural Solutions, and other leading companies across the US, England, Germany, and Singapore. Kim has a bachelor’s in Math and Statistics and an MBA in Marketing. She brings that rare combination of creative instinct and analytical rigor to everything she writes. And, she is the author of the number-one Amazon bestselling book, Client Badassery Secrets.Today, she’s going to share secrets about writing bullet points you simply won’t get anywhere else.Here’s Kim’s offer. There’s really more than I can tell you about. Seven deliverables and three bonuses. Some highlights include• Her Get Dangerously Good Copywriting System• The bullet writing boot camp, which today’s show was drawn from• Kim’s Million Dollar Controls Master Class• Her Supplement Copy Boot Camp… and much, much more. Six more pieces, in fact. Copywriting education I wish I had when I got started.This bundle will only be available until midnight Pacific Daylight Time on Friday, June 19. You’ve got to read about it for a sense of everything you get, and then you can decide if this is for you.Here’s the link:https://kimschwalm.lpages.co/kims-copywriting-vault-for-david-garfinkels-followers/
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  Why Your Content Isn’t Getting You Buyers 08.06.2026 37мин

  If you’ve always wondered about content marketing, you’re not alone. It’s a confusing term and there’s no standard definition to describe what it means.It really depends on your point of view.Well, we have a point of view on this podcast, and it is the point of view of direct-response copywriting.Now, to be sure, not EVERY word you write is part of a sales letter, even from our point of view.But every word should lead in some way to a sales process at best or build up the business another way at worst.And a lot of people get lost along the way, chasing shiny objects and striving for accomplishments that really don’t mean very much, outside of the momentary thrill of bragging rights.We’re going to sort things out today so you can decide for yourself what matters and what you should be going after with your content marketing.Links:Cultish Contenthttps://cultishcontent.com/Garfinkel Coachinghttps://garfinkelcoaching.comMy new book, The Persuasion Story Codehttps://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CFD2KXNQ
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  The Missing Piece That Supercharges Copy 01.06.2026 29мин

  Social media can be a HUGE waste of time, but sometimes when you’re scrolling you come upon a gem.I did last week, and it led to all kinds of crazy thoughts.I was on Twitter/X, and I discovered this post by lesser known but A-plus screenwriting expert Tom Vaughan, who has written eight films.On Twitter/X, he wrote:I have noticed many younger writers prefer to forgo a romance in their screenplay. This is fine. You don't NEED a romance in a story that's not about the romance. But you do need to fill that space. It's the RELATIONSHIP that is vital. A friend, parent, child, or sibling. Audiences care about relationships. Perhaps more than anything else. And we want to see how those relationships affect the protagonists. For better and for worse. A key job with your screenwriting is to know the most important one in your story.My first thought was, yeah, he’s right. Second thought: Uhh, I need to know more about this.Third thought: OK, wiseguy, that’s fine for MOVIES. But what about copywriting?I did some research and some thinking and you’ll be surprised how much the most famous ads in history involve relationships, as well as the most profitable one ever tracked.I’ll share some interesting and useful information about all this today.ResourcesTom Vaughan’s Twitter/X handle: @storyandplotTom Vaughan’s website:​​https://storyandplot.com/Coaching with me: https://garfinkelcoaching.com
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  The Best Type Of Ad To Use In 2026 25.05.2026 30мин

  If you’re noticing the advertising landscape changing a lot and changing fast, it’s not your imagination playing tricks on you.Things really are changing.Our special guest a few weeks ago, Mike Pavlish, pointed this out. He noted that “ugly” ads were outperforming “pretty” ones–that is, user-generated content, UGC, homemade ads of a sort, were vastly outperforming slick, polished, high-production-value ones.He’s right, of course.UGC puts a person just like you in the ad. Or at least that’s the intention. Real people, not models and spokespeople. Talking about the product in their own real-life experience.You’re seeing these ads all the time. But how do you make one for yourself?We’ll take a deep dive on that question today.If you’d like help putting together a user generated content program, drop me an email david @ davidgarfinkel . com andwe’ll figure something out together.
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  Screenwriting Secrets For Copywriters 18.05.2026 34мин

  People always talk about opening your copy with a story, but most of the time, when you say what kind of story, they’ll look at you like you’re an idiot and say, “Hero’s journey, of course,” like there were no other viable options.Well, the problem with that is, the way the great purveyors of hero’s journey stories, Hollywood Screenwriters, use them is as a macro story. The whole two hour movie is one long hero’s journey.Within that framework are a lot of micro stories. And today we’re going to look at three types of micro stories. Two of them opened blockbuster movies you’re probably familiar with: The Dark Knight and Inception. The third type of micro story propelled the hit movie Rocky to a rousing finish, and provided its most memorable scene.I’ve never known anyone, including my friends in the screenwriting industry, identify these story types, much less show how they can be used to increase attention and desire in sales letters.So you’re in for a world premiere of these techniques. Get out the popcorn.And… if you’d like some help writing stories that are much simpler and more compact than hero’s journey stories, let me invite you to check out my book, The Persuasion Story Code.I walk you through writing 25 different kinds of proven micro sales stories in there. We’ll put a link in the show notes:The Persuasion Story Codehttps://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CFD2KXNQ
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  The Surprising Truth About Learning Copywriting 11.05.2026 31мин

  Think about these two things:First, learning to write copy, andSecond, then actually writing it.Wouldn’t it be nice if those two things, learning to write copy and then doing it, were free of confusion, anxiety, and terror?That was the burning question that started me on the path of mentoring copywriters. I wanted to make it happen. Because early on, I had such a rough time learning myself.Learning copywriting was so different from anything I had ever done that it seemed it didn’t matter what I had done before. Anyway, after all this time I’ve gotten pretty good at teaching other people to write copy. And that was after having hit a fair number of home runs with copy I had written myself.I haven’t eliminated confusion, anxiety and terror altogether, but I’ve reduced them by A LOT.And then, along came AI. Problems anew.AI can make things better or worse, depending on what you know and what you know how to do.What do you need to understand that is largely misunderstood out there (which is why we have so many ineffective copywriters)?I can tell you today with absolute certainty.RESOURCESThis is very affordable, if you’re not in a place to make a significant investment in your copywriting education, no matter how much you need it.It’s entirely digital, but with a twist. It was originally a group-coaching product, and there’s a progressive set of exercises everyone does.They’ve retained the feedback the coaches to the same exercises you’ll be doing. There’s also AI advice with each lesson. The coaches include Dr. Harlan Kilstein, Kevin Rogers, Chris Haddad, and me! It’s John Carlton’s Simple Writing System. Here’s my affiliate link:https://m190.isrefer.com/go/swshs/dgarfinkel/The other option is to book a Copy Reset Session with me. We’ll go over a piece of copy, and I’ll critique it for you. Tell youwhat strengths and weaknesses I see. Including in the headline/hook or lead, intrigue and curiosity, easy and clear call to action, use of images and other sensory details, and stories.I’ll tell you how to improve the copy and make specific suggestions you can use right away.We can also look at your positioning or USP. I’ll let you know any quick fixes you can make, as well as suggest long-term structural changes.And, for you to use at no additional cost forever, I’ll give you a custom GPT to review your copy. It will give you a detailed review, with suggestions. I’ve used a similar GPT for my own work.The fee for this session, which we’ll record and you’ll get full access to the recording for your own private use, is 5% of what you’d pay for a year of coaching with me. So it’s an investment, but it’s a very affordable one if you’re serious about your copy.Just send me an email if you’re interested and we can discuss if and see if this is a fit for you. I’ll put my email address in the show notes. It’s david@davidgarfinkel . com
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  Old Masters Series Copywriting 101 Part 4 04.05.2026 34мин

  Today we have the fourth and final installment of our hit Old Masters Series segment, Copywriting 101. We’ll be talking about the last seven fundamentals.And if that little voice in your head is asking, “What the heck are we doing reviewing fundamentals?!”, let me remind you of what basketball legend Michael Jordan said: “Get the fundamentals down and the level of everything you do will rise.”It’s so easy to get caught up in the latest new new thing. But a dedication to fundamentals is what helps you get what you really want.So that’s what we’ll cover today.