Unlearn with Asher & Kelly

Епизоде

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  Ep 50: Workday’s Partner Playbook | Marketplace Maturity | Own the Number | AI With Humans 26.07.2026 54мин

  In Episode 50, we celebrate a major Unlearn milestone: 50 conversations about what business leaders need to rethink.Saqib Sheikh joins the show to break down how Workday is building its partner ecosystem across strategic partnerships, ISVs, benefits, payroll, and Workday Marketplace. This is a practical conversation about what happens when partnerships move from “nice to have” to a real growth motion with revenue, operations, product, and customer experience behind it.We cover:• Why Workday works with more than 1,500 partners, but focuses deeply on a smaller set of strategic relationships• How benefits and payroll partners extend Workday’s platform for employees• Why marketplaces cannot stop at search and listings• How Workday Marketplace moved from discovery to transactions• Why customer context matters: industry, geography, company size, and maturity stage• What it takes to run a marketplace across product, partner ops, finance, sales ops, and marketing• Why partner teams should own real metrics like sourced revenue, co-sell, and revenue share• How Workday thinks about co-sell attribution and partner revenue• Why AI can help customers browse and decide, but payroll, benefits, and finance still need deterministic systems• Why the best AI strategy is not replacing people, but helping them work differently50 episodes in, one lesson keeps showing up:partnerships matter most when they are tied to customer outcomes and business outcomes.If you want to understand how a company like Workday thinks about marketplace strategy, partner revenue, and AI, this episode is worth listening to all the way through.
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  Ep 49: Building AI-Native Companies | Services vs. Software | The Future of Work 11.07.2026 56мин

  In Episode 49, we sit down with Connor Jeffers, Founder of Aptitude 8 and CEO of Hapily, to explore what it takes to build an AI-native company. After scaling one of HubSpot’s leading services partners and launching a venture-backed SaaS business, Connor shares how AI is changing software development, marketing, partnerships, and the way startups compete.We cover:* Why AI is making small teams dramatically more productive* Lessons from building both a services company and a SaaS company* How HubSpot’s ecosystem created opportunities for founders* Why product design is becoming more valuable than engineering capacity* Building software for in-person events and customer engagement* The future of partnerships in an AI-first world* Where AI is creating the biggest productivity gains—and where it isn’tIf AI allows companies to operate at two or three times their previous scale, what does that mean for the future of teams, products, and competition?Whether you’re a founder, operator, partnership leader, or executive navigating AI, this episode offers practical insights into how the next generation of companies will be built.
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  Ep 48: AI Stack Playbook | AWS x Cerebras | Build the Channel First | Inference Race 06.04.2026 55мин

  In Episode 48, we break down a hard truth about AI: the companies that win will not be the ones with the best models. They will be the ones with the best partner strategy. Alan Chhabra joins the show to unpack the AI stack and why distribution, not product, is becoming the real advantage.We cover:• Why AI is a stack game and no company can win alone• The AWS x Cerebras partnership and what it signals about the future of infrastructure• Why hiring sales before building a partner ecosystem is a mistake• The shift from hundreds of partners to a few high leverage relationships• How AI deals are now sold top down to executives, not bottom up• Why inference speed is critical to unlocking real AI adoption• The emergence of neo clouds and the global race for compute capacity• How partner leaders are becoming more important than ever in this marketIs AI a technology revolution or a distribution war?The answer is both.But most companies are still operating like it is just a product problem.If you want to understand how the AI market is actually being won, this episode is for you.
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  Ep 47: Anthropic’s Ecosystem Play | AI Services Boom | Events Are Back | CEO Reset 29.03.2026 1ч 5мин

  In Episode 47, we break down a major shift happening in AI right now: it is not just changing products, it is reshaping services companies and forcing entirely new operating models. Brendan Tolleson, CEO of RevPartners, joins the show.We cover:• Anthropic launching a marketplace and $100M partner fund and what it signals for AI GTM• Why frontier AI companies are going partner first instead of product first• The rise of smaller, AI native services firms driving innovation in the market• New data showing most AI adoption is still internal, not customer facing• How services firms are evolving from delivery to product and IP creation• Why events are becoming one of the highest ROI channels for pipeline generation• The blurring line between services companies and software companies• Why CEO turnover is rising as companies navigate this transitionIs AI actually transforming how services companies operate? Or are most still experimenting without clear ROI?The reality is we are still early.Most companies are applying AI internally, but the real shift will come when it becomes embedded in how they deliver value to customers.If you care about AI, services, go to market, or how companies are evolving their operating models, this episode breaks down what is actually changing.
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  Ep 46: AI Doesn’t Reduce Work | Anthropic at $20B | Salesforce & HubSpot Moves | CEO = Chief AI Officer 17.03.2026 47мин

  In Episode 46, we break down one of the biggest misconceptions about AI right now: it is not reducing work, it is intensifying it. Shailesh Powdwal, VP at Partnerships at Forsys joins the show.We cover:• Research showing AI increases pace, scope, and expectations across teams• Anthropic’s rapid growth and what it signals about the AI market• HubSpot and Salesforce reshaping partner programs for an AI first world• McKinsey’s shift toward agents and the rise of new operating models• How services firms are evolving from time based to outcome based work• Why hardware companies like SanDisk are benefiting from AI demand• CEOs stepping in as Chief AI Officers and what that means for org structure• Why partnerships must shift from influence to owning AI driven revenueIs AI actually making companies more efficient? Or is it forcing a complete reset in how work gets done and measured?The data suggests AI is not a cost reduction story. It is a performance escalation across every function.If you care about AI, partnerships, services, or how companies are restructuring around this shift, this episode breaks down what is really happening.
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  Ep 45: AI vs SaaS? | Anthropic’s Agents | Microsoft Co-opetition | $1T Software Selloff 21.02.2026 1ч 2мин

  In Episode 45, Kelly hosts for the first time and friend of the pod Scott Brinker returns to pressure test the SaaS apocalypse thesis.We cover:• Anthropic’s new agent capabilities, including legal automation• The $1T software selloff and Nvidia’s pushback on the collapse narrative• Microsoft positioning against OpenAI and the rise of AI co opetition• Anthropic vs OpenAI’s Super Bowl ad battle and Sam Altman’s response• OpenAI hiring forward deployed engineers and what it signals about product companies moving into services• KPMG and McKinsey data showing most enterprises are still experimenting with agentsAre agents replacing applications? Or are software companies embedding AI faster than the market expects?The data suggests we are not seeing the death of SaaS, but a reshuffling of power across models, infrastructure, applications, and services.If you care about AI, SaaS, hyperscalers, or ecosystem strategy, this episode breaks down what’s signal vs noise.
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  Ep 44 | America as a Platform Company: The AI Ecosystem Shift, System Integrators, Anthropic’s SI Role & The Budget Reality 14.02.2026 1ч 3мин

  In this episode, Asher and Kelly zoom out to a bigger question: what happens when AI turns nations, platforms, and enterprises into ecosystem companies?Starting with the idea that “America is becoming a platform company,” they explore why the biggest AI winners will be the ones with the largest ecosystems, not just the best models.From Lumen’s transformation from telecom provider to connective AI infrastructure, to the mounting pressure on system integrators to redesign their business models, to Anthropic hiring a revenue owning SI leader at $250K plus OTE, the signals are clear. Adoption beats shipping, and execution beats hype.They also unpack new data from the 2026 State of Partnership Leaders report, including the hard truth about budget authority, and connect it to Salesforce’s latest State of Sales, where partner selling is now nearly universal.If platforms win through ecosystems, someone has to own outcomes. This episode explores who that is and why this moment may redefine the Chief Partner Officer role.
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  Ep 43 | New Format | OpenAi CPO job | Shopify layoffs | Microsoft, Google, ServiceNow Updates | BCG CEO Radar | Kathleen Curry from Workday joins the pod 24.01.2026 1ч 1мин

  In this episode, Asher and Kelly kick off a new Unlearn format and talk through what’s really changing across the tech ecosystem. Kathleen Curry from Workday joins the pod.They dig into OpenAI recruiting a CPO-level partnerships role, Shopify’s partnership shakeup, and the latest partner program moves from Google, Microsoft and ServiceNow.The conversation also looks at what the BCG AI Radar tells us about CEOs taking ownership of AI, and why partnerships now have to focus on adoption, expansion, and real customer value.
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  Ep 42 | The Partnership Infrastructure Behind Stripe’s Biggest Innovations 09.12.2025 55мин

  Most people still think about partnerships as a sales channel. Stripe’s Erika Wool doesn’t. She leads product and strategic partnerships and defines her job as helping Stripe build businesses that wouldn’t exist without partners.In this episode, Erika walks through how she moved from consulting and Edelman into Google and Stripe, how product partnerships evolved as Stripe scaled from “easiest way to accept card payments online” to a multi-product platform, and how she explains the value of these bets to executives and the board. Chapters00:00 – Coming back from break and introducing Erika00:38 – Erika’s path: think tank, consulting, Edelman, Google, Stripe09:30 – What product partnerships mean at Stripe today15:25 – How to articulate the value of product partnerships to executives21:25 – Keeping integrations alive: SLAs, joint roadmaps, and care after launch31:30 – How Stripe structures its partnerships org (pillars, partner engineering, strat/ops)37:05 – Reporting lines, product ownership, and prototyping with partners43:20 – Building bridges with sales, channel, and customer-facing teams48:40 – Why Erika chose partnerships and what keeps her in the role52:00 – Looking beyond tech: Costco, airlines, Walmart, and how AI changes everythingKey Takeaways1. Product partnerships should build businesses, not just integrations: Erika frames her team’s role as helping Stripe build businesses that literally wouldn’t exist without partners, especially in regulated fintech where Stripe is not the bank, card network, or payment method.2. Value stories need both market insight and user data: To justify a product partnership, you can’t just say “we need this partner.” You have to tie what’s happening in the market, what your users are asking for or missing, and what the commercial model looks like over time – even when the forecast isn’t perfect.3. Launch is the starting line, not the finish line: Stripe bakes in SLAs, QBRs, and joint business plans with partners, but the real work is ongoing: updating products as both platforms evolve, entering new markets, and deciding which new partner features are worth integrating.4. Org structure should follow products and partner types: Stripe organizes partnerships by product pillar and partner type (financial partners, payment methods, Terminal, etc.), backed by partner engineering and a dedicated strategy/ops function inside the partnerships org. Regional complexity comes later.5. Great partnership leaders build bridges to CEOs, CFOs, and GTM teams: Erika’s world requires direct engagement with product and company leadership. At the same time, sales, channel, and CS are key sources of market signal and distribution for what product partnerships create.Key Quotes“You know, there is one motion. It's called B2B, right? Like in your world, you're actually a B2C company first. And then you have all this like B2B stuff on the backside of it. At least that's kind of how I think about it.” - Asher Mathew“I feel like it's something that a lot of partner leaders struggle with because it's not necessarily as straightforward as channel partnerships, where you're very much focused on the transactional layer. It gets much more complex.” - Kelly Sarabyn“You do, you are responsible for how that partner impacts the business that Stripe builds on top of it. And so you've got to know those numbers as well and be able to think about how that will change over time.” - Erika WoolFinal ThoughtsProduct partnerships sit in a messy middle: part product, part strategy, part relationship management, and part internal politics. Erika shows how Stripe built an org where partner engineering, strategy/ops, and product partnerships can prototype, negotiate, and scale with some of the most important companies in the world while still serving Stripe’s users first.
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  Ep 41 | Richard Ezekiel on Codifying Partnerships With COELEVATE 02.07.2025 52мин

  In this episode, Asher and Kelly sit down with Richard Ezekiel to unpack his book COELEVATE, a practical framework built from decades in the trenches in Silicon Valley and as part of the venture capital ecosystem. Richard breaks down how to build a “virtual company” between partners, why operational rigor is often overlooked, and how partner professionals can move beyond buzzwords to drive real business value.Chapters04:28 – From Wired Magazine to Amazon10:29 – The Partnership T: A Customer-Centric Framework17:42 – The Real Reason Richard Wrote COELEVATE24:05 – Why 70% of Partnerships Fail29:13 – Building a Partnership Like a Virtual Company34:42 – The Problem with “Alliances” and Industry Nomenclature42:33 – Scaling with Platform Partnerships48:12 – AI, Methodology, and What’s Next for COELEVATEKey Takeaways1. The 70% Problem - Most partnerships fail within two years, not because of execution issues, but because the foundational idea wasn’t strong enough.2. The Virtual Company Mindset - A great partnership should function like a shared operating entity between two companies.3. Idea Quality > Execution - You can’t fix a weak idea with flawless execution. Strong partnerships start with high-quality, differentiated ideas that actually matter to the customer.4. Platform Strategy Isn’t Plug-and-Play - Scaling to one-to-many partnerships doesn’t mean copy-pasting one-to-one motions.5. It’s Time to Codify the Discipline - We’ve built sales, marketing, and product into academic and operational disciplines. It’s time to do the same for partnerships with a common language, methodology, and structure.Key Quotes"You’re not building a deal. You’re building the architecture for two companies to evolve together. If that framework’s not there, the partnership won’t last." - Richard Ezekiel"Most partner pros don’t realize they can take their skills into entirely new industries. The ceiling moves when you stop thinking of partnerships as just a B2B function." - Asher Mathew"Execution depends on culture. You can’t build a strategic partnership if your company values or brand DNA fundamentally clash, even when the numbers look great." - Kelly SarabynFinal ThoughtsPartnerships are complex, evolving ecosystems that need better tools, better thinking, and stronger foundations. Richard Ezekiel’s book COELEVATE is a serious attempt at codifying what most of us learn the hard way: that sustainable partnerships need structure, creativity, and a real operating model behind the press release.This episode is for anyone trying to bring good ideas to life through collaboration. Tune in to hear what’s next for the discipline and what Richard is building to make the methodology real and usable with AI.
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  Ep 40 | The New Rules of PR, Partnerships, and Personal Brand 17.06.2025 51мин

  Natan Edelsburg, Chief Partnerships Officer at Muck Rack, joins Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn on Unlearn to talk about what happens when a revenue leader outgrows the CRO seat. They unpack how modern PR is evolving, why media training matters more than ever, and how partnerships roles are becoming more dynamic and strategic than ever before. Natan shares his journey from early employee to CPO, the challenges of navigating internal change, and the power of authentic storytelling in a noisy world.Chapters01:03 – Natan’s Journey to Chief Partnerships Officer10:00 – Why He Stepped Down as CRO13:40 – Building a Role Around Partnerships & Evangelism19:50 – Staying Focused on PR in a Distracted Market30:32 – LinkedIn’s Role in Modern Comms37:20 – What Makes a Strategic PR Campaign40:35 – Why Media Training Is Essential43:00 – Using AI for Smarter Media Prep47:50 – Activating Relationships Through LinkedInKey Takeaways1. Modern PR Requires Integration - Great campaigns span paid, earned, shared, and owned channels. PR isn’t just pitching anymore.2. Media Training Isn’t Optional - Executives are expected to show up polished on every channel, not just in interviews.3. Partnerships Can Be Evangelism - Natan’s role blends relationship-building with brand representation, showing CPOs aren’t confined to revenue KPIs.4. AI Should Augment, Not Replace - Smart teams are using AI to speed up busywork—but keeping humans in the loop to protect quality.5. LinkedIn Is an Underrated Power Tool - Relationship capital, activated thoughtfully, still opens more doors than cold outreach ever will.Key Quotes“You still want to do incubation stuff, but the company’s needs are highly specialized. That’s the trade-off every growth-stage exec faces.” - Asher Mathew“While tech stacks change, relationships remain the most durable asset in go-to-market.” - Kelly Sarabyn“Being media trained doesn’t mean being robotic. It means knowing your story and being able to tell it in a way that connects.” - Natan EdelsburgFinal ThoughtsNatan’s story is a reminder that career growth isn’t always up. It’s sometimes sideways, strategic, and self-aware. From building Muck Rack’s comms ecosystem to leading without a team, he’s showing what flexible leadership looks like. And with AI, PR, and social platforms evolving fast, the conversation doubles as a blueprint for staying relevant and trusted in any go-to-market function.
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  Ep 39 | How Factorial Built a 100-Person Partner Team (That Drives 30% of Revenue) 22.05.2025 53мин

  As VP of Partnerships at Factorial, Marcel Queralt turned a side project into a full-blown business unit, driving one-third of the company’s revenue. In this episode, Marcel breaks down how he built a 100-person global team, why partner leaders need to think like entrepreneurs, and the exact culture and org structure that keeps it all running.Chapters02:30 - Why partnerships became a growth lever06:05 - Finding product-market fit before hiring10:33 - Why Marcel hired “mini-founders” first27:50 - Culture of ownership and reporting discipline45:52 - The role of partner enablement at scale50:48 - Presenting to the board and owning the numberKey Takeaways1. Mini-Founders First: Marcel prioritized hiring entrepreneurial talent who could own a market and figure out what works before scaling.2. Reporting is Strategy: Clean attribution and shared CRM visibility are non-negotiable if you want internal alignment and credibility.4. Partner Enablement is Make or Break: Fast partner activation—within the first two weeks—is the key to long-term results.5. Partnerships = Business Unit: Marcel runs his org with full P&L ownership, localized teams, and dedicated marketing and ops support.6. Culture Eats Incentives: Internal collaboration is less about comp plans and more about shared trust and aligned goals.Key Quotes"My whole thing right now is, hey, can a partnership leader track performance all the way down to earnings per share... even if you can come down to like net income generated from partnerships, that would actually be a pretty cool thing." - Asher Mathew"It sounded like when you initially took this on, you were looking quite broad at a lot of different types of organizations that could drive the business forward." - Kelly Sarabyn"Signing a partnership doesn't mean anything... we want to understand if they want to invest or not on this relationship, if they are able to sign on a business plan or not, and if they have the ambition to be relevant for us. Because we want to be relevant for them." - Marcel QueraltFinal ThoughtsPartnerships don’t scale on charm alone. Rooted in ownership, discipline, and strategic hiring, Marcel’s approach shows what it takes to turn partner teams into revenue engines. Whether you’re in the early days or managing a global org, this episode is a blueprint for doing it right. It’s also a reminder that treating partnerships as a real business unit is necessary if you want to move the needle.
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  Ep 38 | How TD Synnex is Reinventing Distribution 04.04.2025 54мин

  In this episode of the Unlearn Podcast, Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn sit down with Sergio Farache, Chief Strategy and Technology Officer at TD Synnex. Sergio shares insights on how TD Synnex is breaking away from the traditional linear model, creating a dynamic ecosystem that supports diverse partner types, from SMBs to global enterprises.Chapters02:28 - Sergio’s Background and Role at TD Synnex04:11 - Evolving from Linear Models to Ecosystems08:27 - The Omnichannel Approach16:27 - Supporting SMBs with Tailored Programs23:47 - Empowering Partners and Managing Data33:37 - Distribution Models and Partner Retention44:16 - Go-to-Market Trends and Future FocusKey Takeaways1. Ecosystem Integration: TD Synnex serves as the “ecosystem of ecosystems,” integrating major cloud platforms like AWS, Microsoft, and Google into a unified experience.2. Omnichannel Strategy: Whether partners prefer a digital portal, API integration, or direct support, TD Synnex meets them where they are.3. Focus on SMBs: Programs like Evolve help smaller partners scale their offerings without needing a large internal team.4. Data-Driven Decisions: TD Synnex leverages its extensive data to help partners target the right customers and build effective go-to-market strategies.5. Future of Distribution: Embracing digital engagement while maintaining human touchpoints remains crucial for building long-term relationships.Key Quotes“We are the ecosystem of ecosystems. Our role is to normalize interactions across platforms, allowing partners to access major cloud providers from one place.” - Sergio Farache“If you build an amazing global SMB company, you’ll get any money you want from VCs.” - Asher Mathew“The essence of why platforms exist is to add value by connecting partners and customers across the chain.” - Kelly SarabynFinal ThoughtsSergio Farache highlights how TD Synnex is redefining distribution by fostering an interconnected ecosystem, focusing on SMB enablement, and leveraging data to deliver value. As the market evolves, TD Synnex’s approach to blending human interaction with digital efficiency will likely set the standard for the future of technology distribution.
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  Ep 37 | CRO’s Ultimate Playbook to Partnerships and Innovation 26.03.2025 56мин

  Join hosts Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn as they engage with Gilad Zubery, Chief Revenue Officer at DealHub. This episode unpacks Gilad's journey from EVP of Partnerships at ContentSquare to his current role, highlighting the strategic importance of partnerships in driving business growth. Discover insights into the challenges of revenue operations and the evolving landscape of partner-driven strategies.Chapters- 06:00 - Gilad's Career Journey and Transition to CRO- 12:00 - Attribution Challenges and Solutions in Partnerships- 18:00 - The Role of Partnerships in Company Growth Strategy- 24:00 - Community Building and Its Impact on Business- 30:00 - Challenges in Partner-Driven Growth for New Platforms- 36:00 - Reporting Structures for Partnership Teams- 42:00 - Metrics and Board Reporting for PartnershipsKey Takeaways1. Transitioning to CRO: Gilad's move to Deal Hub was driven by the company's belief in partner channels as a growth engine, underscoring the value of partnership expertise in executive roles.2. Attribution in Partnerships: Implementing a robust attribution system is crucial for understanding the impact of partnerships on lead generation and revenue.3. Outsourcing Challenges: Competing with established players like Salesforce requires innovative strategies, especially when offering fewer services.4. Reporting Structures: The optimal reporting line for partnerships varies by company strategy and culture, emphasizing the need for alignment with overall business goals.5. Early Metrics Implementation: Introducing partnership metrics early can significantly influence strategic decisions and highlight the importance of partner relationships.Key Quotes"Everything you do about partnerships, do it early on after you grow. It's close to impossible to really change. It's very difficult." - Gilad Zubery"Understanding the go-to-market motion of a company is crucial for determining where partnerships should report." - Asher Mathew"This is the beauty of having a partner friendly CRO is you can get data like that, even understanding who the partners are on the other, the competitive side." - Kelly SarabynFinal ThoughtsGilad's transition to CRO highlights the growing importance of partnerships in modern business strategies. His approach to eliminating attribution issues and fostering community engagement offers valuable lessons for leaders aiming to integrate partnerships into their growth models. As companies navigate competitive landscapes, the insights shared in this episode underscore the need for adaptability and strategic alignment in achieving sustainable success.
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  Ep 36 | Breaking Barriers in Healthcare Data Sharing 10.03.2025 44мин

  In this episode, hosts Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn engage with Serrah Linares, Senior Vice President of Growth Innovation at Optum, in a compelling discussion on the future of healthcare partnerships. This episode unpacks how technology, APIs, and strategic alliances are reshaping healthcare delivery and innovation.Chapters5:02 - Healthcare tech: EMRs, APIs, and data exchange10:57 - Industry evolution: Adoption of technology in healthcare17:50 - Partnerships and interoperability in healthcare24:41 - AI and verticalized solutions in healthcare30:36 - Organizational structure and partnerships at UnitedHealthcare36:57 - Stakeholder alignment and making the business case42:25 - Challenges of partnering in the healthcare industryKey Takeaways1. Optum's Technological Edge: Optum builds and commercializes technology to fill gaps in healthcare, enhancing member engagement and service delivery.2. Interoperability and Innovation: The healthcare sector is gradually embracing digital transformation, driven by federal policies and the need for collaboration.3. API Marketplace as a Catalyst: Optum's API marketplace supports startups, fostering innovation in telehealth and virtual care.4. Data Protection vs. Sharing: Balancing data protection with the need for information sharing is crucial for improving healthcare outcomes.5. Strategic Stakeholder Engagement: Effective partnership initiatives require a compelling business case and alignment with company goals.
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  Ep 35 | Rethinking Partnerships: A Product Leader’s Playbook 19.02.2025 54мин

  Elena Leonova, Chief Product Officer at Spryker, joins Unlearn to discuss how product leaders should rethink their approach to partnerships. She explains why transparency in product roadmaps is critical, how developer ecosystems drive platform success, and why product managers need to integrate partners into their strategy. This episode is packed with insights on structuring partnerships for scale, and positioning partnerships at the executive level.Chapters:01:33 - The Role of Partnerships in Platform Products04:26 - Structuring Partner Success & Developer Enablement07:29 - Transparency in Product Roadmaps for Partners12:58 - The Journey from Product to Platform18:48 - How to Sell Partnerships to Product Leaders22:05 - Why Product Managers Should Care About Partners32:25 - The Role of Ecosystem Risk in Product Decisions41:05 - CEO-Level Conversations About Partnerships48:42 - Staying Aligned with Partners Over Time50:08 - AI’s Impact on Product-Partner StrategiesKey TakeawaysProduct leaders need to shift their mindset—Partnerships aren’t just a go-to-market strategy; they’re a core part of a scalable product strategy.Transparency is key—Sharing product roadmaps with partners fosters trust and helps them build complementary solutions.Developer experience matters—A strong developer ecosystem increases platform adoption and partner engagement.Partnership decisions need a framework—Having a clear “build, buy, or partner” philosophy helps streamline product decisions.Ecosystem risk is real—Companies must account for partner stability and evolving technology trends when integrating third-party solutions.Key Quotes"Product leaders often don’t realize that partnerships can extend product capabilities without adding internal complexity." - Elena Leonova"If a product roadmap doesn’t make space for partners, it’s missing a massive opportunity for scale." - Asher Mathew"Product managers care about adoption—partners can help increase product stickiness and usage." - Kelly SarabynFinal ThoughtsPartnerships are a growth strategy that requires alignment between product, business, and developers. Whether you’re a product manager, a partner leader, or an executive, this episode is a masterclass in structuring partnerships for long-term success.#ProductLeadership #Partnerships #TechEcosystem #SaaS #PlatformStrategy
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  Ep 34 | Debunking The B Team Myth in Partnerships 04.02.2025 1ч 3мин

  Join hosts Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn as they engage with Alan Chhabra, a seasoned executive with a rich history at MongoDB, now leading partnerships at Cerebras. This episode unpacks Alan's journey from engineering to executive roles, offering insights into building robust partner organizations and strategies for collaborating with hyperscalers. Chapters - - 01:24 - Alan's Background and Journey into Partnerships - 05:54 - Building a Successful Partner Organization at MongoDB - 10:09 - Challenges and Wins in Partnership Development - 24:38 - Strategies for Working with Hyperscalers - 31:32 - Building the Right Team and Infrastructure for Partnerships - 41:23 - The Importance of Enablement and Partner Marketing - 47:37 - Alan's Reflections on His Time at MongoDB - 52:34 - Alan's Transition to Cerebras and the AI Chip Market - 56:49 - Advice for CEOs on Structuring Partner and Sales Organizations Key Takeaways 1. Building Partnerships: Alan emphasizes aligning with the CEO, CRO, and CFO on a North Star goal to enhance sales productivity through partnerships. 2. Hyperscaler Strategies: Transforming relationships with cloud giants involves multi-cloud capabilities, leveraging marketplaces, and executive alignment. 3. Transition to Cerebras: Alan's move to Cerebras highlights the competitive AI chip market and the importance of scaling partnerships with hyperscalers and OEMs. 4. CEO Advice: Splitting the CRO role into separate heads for sales and partnerships is crucial in today's tech landscape. Key Quotes - "Being an immigrant in America, it's not always easy if you're first generation. So there is some challenges." - Alan Chhabra - "Losses can be turned into wins, but you got to be strategic about it, and you need a partner org to go do it." - Alan Chhabra - "How do you see the role of partnerships evolving in the next five years?" - Asher Mathew - "What are the key elements that make a partnership truly successful?" - Kelly Sarabyn
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  Ep 33 | Lessons from Microsoft's $2 Trillion Transformation with Jason Graefe 14.01.2025 53мин

  In this Unlearn episode, Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn sit down with Jason Graefe, a seasoned Microsoft executive. With over two decades at Microsoft, Jason shares his journey from a field seller to leading Microsoft's engagement with software development companies. This episode explores leadership lessons, the transformative impact of generative AI, and Microsoft's strategic approach to partnering with software companies. Chapters: - 01:02 - Jason Graefe's Career Journey at Microsoft - 04:36 - Leadership Lessons - 22:10 - Microsoft's Engagement with Software Companies - 25:19 - The Impact of Generative AI on Software Development - 44:50 - Working with Satya Nadella - 48:09 - Improving Microsoft's Partner Engagement Key Takeaways: 1. Leadership Philosophy: Drawing from Jack Nicklaus, Jason emphasizes focusing on solutions rather than problems, a mindset crucial for effective leadership. 2. AI's Role in Development: Generative AI is rapidly changing the software landscape, and companies must strategically integrate it to enhance their core strengths. 3. Strategic Partnerships: Clear communication and tailored approaches are vital for successful partnerships, as emphasized by Jason's experiences at Microsoft. 4. Satya Nadella's Leadership: Jason admires Nadella's ability to balance high-level strategy with technical detail, a skill that defines effective leadership. Key Quotes: - "Our job is to really help software development companies build their businesses and build them on our platform." - Jason Graefe - "It's fascinating to see how leadership philosophies can transform not just a team, but an entire organization." - Asher Mathew - "Understanding the nuances of partnership engagement is crucial for long-term success." - Kelly Sarabyn
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  Ep 32 | Shaping the Future of Design: Exploring Canva’s Ecosystem with Anwar Haneef 02.12.2024 55мин

  In this episode of the Unlearn podcast, Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn chat with Anwar Haneef, Head of Ecosystem at Canva, about the company's innovative approach to empowering developers. Anwar explores Canva's ecosystem, showcasing tools like the Apps SDK and Connect API, which enable seamless integrations across platforms. He shares insights on Canva’s expansive reach, partnerships with industry giants like Meta and Salesforce, and how the $50 million Developer Innovation Fund supports sustainable ecosystem growth. Tune in for a look at how Canva is shaping the future of design, collaboration, and developer success. Chapters -  00:00 - Introduction 03:19 - Canva's Developer Ecosystem and Infrastructure 06:39 - Examples of Canva's Developer Integrations 12:56 - Diversity of Canva's Ecosystem and User Community 19:48 - Monetization Strategy for Canva's Developer Ecosystem 31:25 - Canva's Innovation Fund and Long-Term Sustainability 33:00 - Go-to-Market Strategies with Partners 39:14 - Team Structure and Organizational Design 54:12 - Final Thoughts and Future Plans Final Thoughts and Future Plans Anwar shared that Canva is focused on enhancing functionality and support for developers, including introducing new integrations and tools. He also mentioned a selective approach to onboarding new partners for the premium app program, prioritizing quality and user value.  Key Takeaways -  Developing a sustainable monetization model for a developer ecosystem is crucial, beyond just relying on fixed funding sources. Encouraging a freemium approach and revenue sharing can create a self-sustaining economy. Aligning deeper go-to-market relationships between partnerships, product, and sales teams can be challenging, but is important to provide a cohesive experience for customers and partners. Organizing teams around "super groups" or pods that have cross-functional autonomy can foster faster innovation and better integration between different disciplines like product, engineering, and partnerships. Empowering teams to focus on "doing the work" rather than rigid hierarchies and titles can promote a more collaborative and nimble culture Designing the business model and user experience upfront, before extensive development, can lead to better outcomes than a "build first, design later" approach. Key Quotes -  "Before we start anything, we usually spend a lot of time designing it first. This creates a much better experience because it ensures everything is well-articulated and users are properly guided. When you focus on design upfront, you can build faster, as many of the issues that arise from building first and designing later are avoided." - Asher Mathew "We want Canva to be wherever there is an intention for design. Whether it's creating a QBR, designing a t-shirt, or planning team swag, we aim to be available anytime, anywhere, for any user with design needs." - Anwar Haneef"Many platforms say, 'We've made ourselves extensible—come build on us,' but Canva has gone beyond that. Not only has it made itself extensible, but it has also made it incredibly easy to embed Canva into other products. This allows users to access Canva seamlessly within those products, maintaining a consistent experience." - Kelly Sarabyn
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  Ep 31 | Untangling the Digital Maze With Partnerships 22.11.2024 53мин

  On this episode of the Unlearn podcast, hosts Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn connect with Eron Sunando, Asana's Head of Channels & Alliances. Fresh from Asana's Partner Summit, Eron brings a unique perspective on how partnerships can simplify the increasingly complex world of business technology. Drawing from his globe-trotting career that spans from UBS to Salesforce, Eron unpacks the challenges facing today's businesses – from overwhelmed SMB owners to sales teams juggling multiple tools. He shares an insider's look at Asana's fresh approach to partnerships, including their new partner program and the game-changing AI Studio. Join us for a practical conversation about reducing tech complexity, building meaningful partnerships, and finding the sweet spot between AI automation and the human touch in partner management. Chapters -  00:00 - Introduction and Eron’s career journey 04:20 - Complexity of modern tech stacks 10:00 - Reducing Complexities for SMBs 16:00 - Asana's Partner Summit and Program Relaunch 22:00 - Partnerships with MasterCard and Other Ecosystem Players 28:00 - Balancing Competency-Based and Outcome-Based Partner Programs 34:00 - Asana's Use of AI and the Launch of AI Studio 40:00 - Managing Partner Relationships with Asana's Internal Tools 45:00 - AI and Partner Management 50:00 - Asana's AI Studio and the Shift Towards Customizable AI Workflows 52:00 - Evolving Partner Program Structure Key Takeaways -  Complexity of Modern Tech Stacks: Customers, especially SMBs, are overwhelmed by the growing number of applications and tools they need to manage, highlighting the need for partners to simplify and integrate these solutions. Asana's Flexible Partner Program: Asana is launching a new partner program with distinct paths for different partner types (solution, services, tech, referral), allowing for a more tailored approach to partner engagement. Leveraging AI for Partner Management: While AI can automate certain partner management tasks, the human touch remains crucial for building strategic relationships and providing customized support. Asana's AI Studio offers a flexible, customizable platform for partners to create AI-driven workflows. Centralized Partner Relationship Management: Asana uses its own collaborative work management platform to facilitate communication, task tracking, and coordination with its partner ecosystem, providing a unified system for managing partner activities. Balancing Competency-Based and Outcome-Based Models: Asana opted for a competency-based partner program structure, citing the complexity of implementing an outcome-based model that would require sophisticated backend systems and processes. Key Quotes -  "I was excited to talk with you because, traditionally, a partnership leader’s worst nightmare is working with a CRO. Few people have experienced both roles firsthand, but you’ve done exactly that." - Asher Mathew "What's top of mind for me is that, as you know, AI is everywhere. But what I often hear from our customers is that their tech stack has become very complex." - Eron Sunando