BE THAT LAWYER

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• Chris White: How Legal Associates Become Truly “Recruitable” 02.07.2026 34min

  When is legal recruiting “simple but hard”? In this episode, a former BigLaw attorney turned recruiter pulls back the curtain on how associates can become highly marketable and how firms quietly lose top candidates—plus what both sides must do differently in today’s ultra-competitive legal market. In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Chris White discuss: Transition from law practice to legal recruiting Why credentials and experience shape lateral options Common mistakes associates make in their careers and job searches How firms lose strong candidates and what great hiring processes look like Market trends, compensation pressure, and lifestyle trade-offs in law Key Takeaways: Legal recruiting looks straightforward on paper, but in practice, it’s a complex, often difficult matchmaking process between firms and candidates. Credentials, law school performance, and the caliber of prior firms heavily influence how many and what kinds of lateral opportunities an attorney will realistically have. Associates quietly hurt their own marketability when they neglect their LinkedIn, allow their materials to go stale, and fail to build a network while billing heavy hours. Law firms routinely lose top candidates by moving too slowly, failing to tell a compelling story about what makes them unique, and not putting prospects in front of the right partners. Smaller and mid-sized firms can’t always compete on salary, but they can win by offering better lifestyle, lower billable requirements, and real upside for business generators. "The more information a candidate has, the more likely they are to accept." —  Chris White Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Join the Be That Lawyer Community and connect with ambitious lawyers who are serious about growing their book of business, strengthening their brand, and becoming confident, consistent rainmakers. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor! LEX Reception: https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyer Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Chris White: As a former practicing attorney, Chris White leverages his firsthand experience and business acumen to effectively recruit, place, and advise attorneys nationwide from his base in Chicago. After earning his BBA from the University of Michigan’s Steven M. Ross School of Business in 2004 and graduating from the University of Michigan Law School in 2007, he began his legal career handling corporate and securities matters at the international firm Drinker Biddle & Reath, later practicing at the mid-sized Chicago firm Pedersen & Houpt. Today, Chris has successfully placed attorneys across a vast array of practice areas—including litigation, corporate/M&A, real estate, and tax—at numerous law firms and companies. Also, the founder of a small beer tasting company, Chris combines his dual background in law and business with a genuine enthusiasm for teaching and helping others to uniquely guide candidates through their legal careers. Connect with Chris White:  Website: https://www.navigatelegalsearch.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christopherbrucewhite/ Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
• Wendy Meadows: Forever Is Composed of Nows – Beating Burnout and Redesigning Your Legal Career 29.06.2026 33min

  What if your legal career didn’t have to feel like a grind, you just survive? In this episode, you’ll learn how to pause time, beat burnout, and intentionally design a solo practice and life that actually fit you. In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Wendy Meadows discuss: “Forever is composed of nows,” and pausing time Journaling, gratitude, and intentionally replaying “yesterday” Leaving litigation for mediation and coaching lawyers Burnout vs. a career that no longer fits Young lawyers, work-life integration, and treating yourself as the CEO Key Takeaways: Being fully present in the “now” moments of your day is how you ultimately shape the career and life you’ll look back on. Simple reflection practices like journaling about “what was great about yesterday” can anchor gratitude and reduce the feeling of life rushing by. Leaving litigation or a firm isn’t always about hating the work; sometimes it’s about aligning with a role and business model that feels ethical, sustainable, and enjoyable. Burnout will recur over a career, but recognizing your personal warning signs and having tools—like movement, boundaries, and intentional scheduling—can shorten its duration and impact. Treating yourself as the CEO of your practice (and life) means owning the decisions, direction, and standards, rather than passively letting circumstances or other people steer you. "The biggest mistake in my business is when I forget that I'm the CEO." —  Wendy Meadows Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Join the Be That Lawyer Community and connect with ambitious lawyers who are serious about growing their book of business, strengthening their brand, and becoming confident, consistent rainmakers. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor! LEX Reception: https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyer Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Wendy Meadows: Wendy S. Meadows is a Maryland-based family law attorney, certified life coach, and mediator who runs the Law Office of Wendy S. Meadows, LLC in Phoenix, Maryland. After graduating cum laude from Franklin & Marshall College in 2002 and the American University Washington College of Law in 2005, she spent years as a traditional family law litigator before intentionally shifting her focus entirely to out-of-court alternative dispute resolutions. Today, her legal practice specializes exclusively in mediation, collaborative law, prenuptial agreements, and parent coordination to help families resolve high-conflict custody and divorce issues with minimal friction. Alongside her law practice, she runs a professional coaching and consulting business called Lawfully Lean—informed by her own experience with professional burnout—where she acts as a strategic coach, author, and speaker helping high-achieving women, lawyers, and firm owners optimize their habits and build sustainable careers. Connect with Wendy Meadows:  Website: https://www.wendymeadowslaw.com/ Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
• Jeremy Baker: Why Lawyers Must Get AI-Literate or Get Left Behind 25.06.2026 32min

  What happens when a big law partner walks away from a “wonderful job” to build an AI-powered solo practice? In this episode, you’ll hear how one construction lawyer is using AI to slash hours of work to minutes—and why lawyers who stay on the sidelines risk being left behind. In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Jeremy Baker discuss: Leaving big law to launch a solo practice How AI is practically used in day-to-day legal work Efficiency, billing models, and the future of big law Ethical and strategic considerations around AI adoption Encouragement for lawyers to experiment and get AI-literate Key Takeaways: You don’t need to be a coder to benefit from AI; the willingness to experiment and basic skills like copy-paste are enough to start transforming your workflow. Tasks that once required staff support, days of delay, and high cost can now be compressed into minutes with the right AI tools. Traditional big law business models built on leverage and large billable-hour teams are likely to face serious disruption as AI boosts individual productivity. Market forces will push firms toward more efficient, smaller teams and alternative fee structures, rewarding those who embrace technology early. Waiting for institutional permission or a “starting gun” is risky; individual lawyers must proactively get literate in AI to secure their future in the profession. "The only skill that I really needed was the desire to get started, and then the ability to cut and paste, because there's no coding required to play with [AI]." —  Jeremy Baker Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Join the Be That Lawyer Community and connect with ambitious lawyers who are serious about growing their book of business, strengthening their brand, and becoming confident, consistent rainmakers. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor! LEX Reception: https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyer Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Jeremy Baker: Jeremy S. Baker is a Chicago-based attorney and the founder of Baker Law Group LLC, specializing in construction law, litigation, and alternative dispute resolution. Admitted to practice in 2002, he has extensive experience representing architects, developers, engineers, and property owners in complex contract negotiations and construction disputes. A former partner at ArentFox Schiff LLP (formerly Schiff Hardin LLP), Baker has served as an adjunct professor of construction law and is a frequent speaker and writer for industry organizations, including the American Institute of Architects (AIA) and the American Council of Engineering Companies (ACEC). He has been consistently recognized by Thomson Reuters as an Illinois Super Lawyer, a distinction he has held consecutively since 2019. Connect with Jeremy Baker:  Website: https://designbuildlaw.com/, https://operationpalmtree.com/  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremysbaker/ Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
• Cooper Saunders: Turning Law Firm Marketing Into Measurable Revenue 22.06.2026 28min

  Tired of paying for “more clicks” and getting zero real cases? In this episode, you’ll hear how strategic market research, real social proof, and case-study-driven content can turn a law firm website into a revenue engine instead of a digital brochure. In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Cooper Saunders discuss: The real goal of digital marketing for law firms (revenue, not clicks) Market research and choosing markets you can dominate Building targeted content around real client cases and questions Personalization, video, and human connection on law firm websites Social proof, reviews, and the “Dream 100” referral strategy Key Takeaways: Marketing success for law firms starts with showing up where people are already searching for the exact services you provide, instead of broadcasting to everyone and hoping for the best. Smart lawyers look for markets they can dominate, choosing niches and geographies with solid demand but manageable competition rather than jumping into oversaturated metro battles by default. Case-based content that walks through “this client, this problem, this solution, this outcome” is far more powerful than generic articles that could apply to anyone and no one at the same time. Prospects convert at a higher rate when they can see and hear the attorney: simple, honest video on an About page often beats polished but faceless branding. Social proof, including reviews, testimonials, and concrete case studies, is no longer optional; it’s the proof skeptical clients need before deciding you’re the right firm to trust. "I think the market research goes into identifying a pond you can dominate, rather than being a minnow in an ocean or fighting an 800-pound gorilla." —  Cooper Saunders Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Join the Be That Lawyer Community and connect with ambitious lawyers who are serious about growing their book of business, strengthening their brand, and becoming confident, consistent rainmakers. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor! LEX Reception: https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyer Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Cooper Saunders: Cooper Saunders is the owner and founder of WiseGuys Digital Marketing, a Kansas City, Missouri-based agency specializing in SEO and Google Ads. Recognized as a business growth expert, he has authored three national bestselling books—including Quit Competing Start Dominating and Marketing Secrets of the Ultra Wealthy—and hosts The Growth Secrets Podcast. Under his leadership, WiseGuys Digital Marketing operates without year-long contracts and was named a Kansas City Chamber of Commerce Small Business Superstar for three consecutive years from 2021 through 2023. Connect with Cooper Saunders:  Website: https://wiseguysdm.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/coopersaunders/ Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
• Fiona Stevenson: How Law Firms Can Win Clients in the First 2% of the Experience 18.06.2026 31min

  A potential client rarely picks up the phone to call a law firm on their best day—and how that first moment is handled can make or break the relationship. In this episode, you’ll learn how to turn branding, digital footprint, and intake into a consistent, human experience that wins trust and converts more of the right clients. In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Fiona Stevenson discuss: Unreasonable hospitality and the “2%” difference Brand vs. marketing for law firms Defining mission, values, and ideal clients Consistent intake and first-impression systems Human connection vs. AI in client intake Key Takeaways: A law firm’s brand is defined less by its logo and more by what people say when the lawyers aren’t in the room. Clarity on mission, values, and the types of clients you do and do not want to serve should act as a north star for all marketing and client interactions. Consistency across every touchpoint (including your website, email, phone, live chat, and in-person conversations) is essential for building trust and a recognizable brand. The first phone call often happens on one of the worst days in a client’s life, so warmth, empathy, and active listening are non‑negotiable in intake. While AI can enhance efficiency behind the scenes, real humans at the end of the phone line remain critical to delivering the kind of experience that truly reflects a firm’s reputation. "Brand is what people are saying about you when you're not in the room. You might not have even spoken to that person, and they've already got a perception about what your brand is." —  Fiona Stevenson Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Join the Be That Lawyer Community and connect with ambitious lawyers who are serious about growing their book of business, strengthening their brand, and becoming confident, consistent rainmakers. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor! LEX Reception: https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyer Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Fiona Stevenson: Fiona Stevenson is Associate Director of Marketing at LEX Reception. She brings 20 years of B2B marketing experience across SaaS, professional services, retail, and the public sector. Her particular interest is customer insights - she believes good marketing starts with an honest understanding of what buyers actually need. She writes about legal operations, client experience, and practical growth for law firms. Connect with Fiona Stevenson:  Website: https://www.lexreception.com/blog/author/fiona/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fionahstevenson/ Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
• Sherry Mason: Ambition, Prestige, and Knowing When It’s Time to Leave Your Firm 15.06.2026 33min

  Stuck on the “wrong mountain” in your legal career but unsure what to do next? In this episode, career coach and former lawyer Sherry Mason breaks down how ambitious attorneys can separate prestige from true fulfillment, avoid burnout, and plan a smart, strategic exit instead of a panic-fueled leap. In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Sherry Mason discuss: Ambition vs. prestige in legal careers Skills, situation, and identity as sources of dissatisfaction Burnout, autonomy, and control for lawyers How spending 20% of your time on aligned work drastically reduces burnout A five-step framework for planning a career transition Key Takeaways: Many high-achieving lawyers climb career “mountains” chosen for them by others, only to realize later that prestige alone doesn’t guarantee a fulfilling life. Career dissatisfaction typically stems from one of three areas (skills, situation, or identity) and it’s critical to understand which one is actually driving your unhappiness before you make a big move. Burnout often reflects a loss of autonomy and misalignment between daily work and personal values, not just long hours or compensation. Research suggests that if just 20% of your time is spent on the work that most lights you up, your risk of burnout can drop dramatically, even if the other 80% is less enjoyable. A thoughtful, stepwise approach of clarifying your criteria, forming hypotheses, testing them through conversations, reaching the right decision-makers, and weighing trade-offs can turn a vague urge to quit into a strategic, lower-risk transition. "You can do anything, but you can't do everything, and a lot of times we work on climbing to the top of a mountain, and sometimes it is a mountain that someone else has told us would be the right mountain for us to climb. " — Sherry Mason Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Join the Be That Lawyer Community and connect with ambitious lawyers who are serious about growing their book of business, strengthening their brand, and becoming confident, consistent rainmakers. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor! LEX Reception: https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyer Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Sherry Mason: Sherry Mason is the founder and principal coach at Daymark Career Coaching, where she has been advising and guiding professionals through career transitions since 2005. Grounded in an 18-year background in higher education, her experience includes serving as the former Dean of Students at the University of Maine School of Law, as well as a decade working as a Career Coach and Pre-Law Advisor at Bowdoin College and Tufts University. She holds a B.A. in Geology and Geophysics from Yale University and a J.D., summa cum laude, from the University of Maine School of Law, where she graduated first in her class. Sherry brings a deeply multi-disciplinary approach to her practice, holding credentials as an Accredited Financial Counselor alongside specialized training in navigating transitions, public speaking, racial equity, and intergroup dialogue facilitation. Connect with Sherry Mason: Website: https://daymarkcareers.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sherryfm/ Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
• Jimmy Lai: Turning LinkedIn into a Law Firm Growth Engine 11.06.2026 31min

  In this episode, you’ll hear how an immigrant entrepreneur leveraged authenticity, storytelling, and smart content strategy to turn a resume platform into a powerful engine for referrals, hiring, and personal brand. In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Jimmy Lai discuss: Using LinkedIn as an “Instagram” for lawyers and professionals Immigration journey, E-2 visa risk, and launching a law firm from scratch Clarifying goals on LinkedIn: clients, brand, or relationships Authenticity, lived experience, and personal storytelling in content Hooks, comments, and practical tactics to grow reach and engagement Key Takeaways: Treating LinkedIn as a place to learn, be entertained, and build real relationships can transform it from a static resume into a dynamic growth channel. Before posting, get crystal clear on whether your primary goal is client acquisition, personal branding, or relationship-building, and let that drive your strategy. Consistent content built around a few focused pillars and rooted in lived experience tends to outperform generic, “professional-only” posts. Engagement doesn’t start with posting; thoughtful, value-adding comments can be the safest and most effective way to warm up and build relationships. Sustainable business growth often requires letting go of the need to do everything yourself and delegating to capable people who can reliably handle 80% of the work. "My big mistake as an entrepreneur was thinking that I'm the best at everything, and I need to do everything myself… we didn't hit exponential growth until I was ready to let go." —  Jimmy Lai Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Join the Be That Lawyer Community and connect with ambitious lawyers who are serious about growing their book of business, strengthening their brand, and becoming confident, consistent rainmakers. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor! LEX Reception: https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyer Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Jimmy Lai: Drawing from a diverse, multicultural background and a multilingual K-12 education spanning Taiwan, the United States, Japan, Germany, and England, Jimmy has always possessed a global perspective. This unique background, combined with his experience as an international student, fueled his passion for immigration law and his desire to help others achieve the American Dream. After earning his undergraduate marketing degree from the University of Central Oklahoma—where he was honored as the sole recipient of the prestigious Top Central Man award—he went on to complete his JD/MBA at the University of Oklahoma in 2021. Rather than taking the conventional route of joining an established firm as a junior associate, Jimmy co-founded Lai & Turner Law Firm PLLC in 2022 alongside his close friend Braden Turner to "do law differently." As the firm's managing attorney, Jimmy has guided Lai & Turner through rapid growth, expanding its services from immigration to include estate planning, criminal defense, real estate, and personal injury, all while ensuring every client receives premier representation rooted in the firm's core values. Connect with Jimmy Lai:  Website: https://www.laiturnerlaw.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmylai-jdmba Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
• Karlton Butts: Attorney Development, Culture, and the Real Drivers of Retention 08.06.2026 32min

  Law firms are spending heavily to recruit great lawyers, then losing them because of broken culture, unclear paths, and weak leadership. In this episode, discover how intentional hiring, smart onboarding, and authentic leadership can transform retention and performance at every level of your firm. In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Karlton Butts discuss: Phil Jackson’s team quote and Bulls-era leadership Law firm culture, mission, and values Attorney development plans and onboarding strategy Cross-practice communication and breaking down silos Transparency, compensation, and listening to associates on retention Key Takeaways: Retention begins long before someone thinks about leaving; it starts with how firms recruit, interview, and assess for alignment on values like work ethic and culture. Effective onboarding includes personalized development plans, clear growth paths, and early conversations about strengths, aspirations, and what success looks like at the firm. When leaders invest time in one-on-one conversations and cross-practice connections, lawyers feel a stronger sense of belonging to the entire firm rather than a single siloed group. Even in firms with closed compensation systems, consistent transparency about expectations, investment in growth, and visible support can significantly increase loyalty and engagement. The most impactful retention work often comes from examining the data on why people leave, listening to those who stay, and quickly fixing the core issues that cause avoidable departures. "If they maximize their potential, it strengthens the team, but also the strength of the team is each individual." — Karlton Butts Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Join the Be That Lawyer Community and connect with ambitious lawyers who are serious about growing their book of business, strengthening their brand, and becoming confident, consistent rainmakers. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor! LEX Reception: https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyer Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Karlton Butts: Karlton Butts is a Certified Executive Coach, keynote speaker, and the #1 Amazon bestselling author of The Soundtrack of Leadership, who leverages over 25 years of diverse industry experience to help organizations eliminate operational friction and build high-performing cultures. His unique professional perspective spans engineering roles at NASA and McDonnell Douglas, Fortune 500 consulting with Booz Allen Hamilton, practicing intellectual property law at Loeb & Loeb, and serving as a tech startup CEO and entertainment executive. Today, through his signature Leadership Soundcheck™ framework, Karlton masterfully blends powerful music metaphors with practical business strategies to help leadership teams realign their vision, strengthen team harmony, and stay perfectly in rhythm with their mission. Connect with Karlton Butts:  Website: https://karltonspeaks.com/ , https://karltonbutts.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karltonbutts/ Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
• Sylvia Garibaldi: Turning Complex Legal Services into Clear, Client‑Winning Marketing 04.06.2026 33min

  Learn how to turn complex legal services into clear, compelling marketing that actually converts. In this episode, you’ll hear practical strategies for repurposing content, strengthening your online presence, and building referral relationships that consistently feed your law practice. In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Sylvia Garibaldi discuss: Niche marketing for divorce and legal professionals Positioning, messaging, and understanding your ideal client Repurposing podcasts, webinars, and video for multi-channel marketing Why referrals aren’t converting like they used to Building referral partnerships through webinars and LinkedIn Key Takeaways: Growth comes from consistent, repeated action paired with learning and improvement, not just doing more of the same. Clear positioning and messaging are critical so referral partners and prospects instantly understand who you serve, what you do, and the results you deliver. Repurposing a single piece of content like a webinar or podcast into social posts, articles, and lead magnets is “marketing 101” and dramatically reduces the content burden. Referral conversion now depends heavily on your curated online presence, including your website, social media, podcast appearances, and especially a strong LinkedIn profile with social proof. Effective referral relationships require intention, follow-up, and the right partners; they’re built over time through trust, value, and consistent communication, not one-off meetings. "In business and life, we tend to want to have the outcome first, but in reality, it does take time, it takes doing those reps and consistency, and so for me, doing that repeatedly has helped me build that habit." —  Sylvia Garibaldi Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Join the Be That Lawyer Community and connect with ambitious lawyers who are serious about growing their book of business, strengthening their brand, and becoming confident, consistent rainmakers. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor! LEX Reception: https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyer Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Sylvia Garibaldi: Sylvia Garibaldi, CEO and Founder of SG and Associates, is a business strategist and speaker who helps service-based entrepreneurs around the world to grow their business to 6 figures and beyond, in a way that is aligned and authentic to them. She is the creator of the Serve First, Sell-to-Many Program that has helped many of her clients achieve outstanding results. Over the course of 14 years, Sylvia has helped hundreds of financial, legal, mediation, and divorce professionals to grow their business and become leading experts in their field through results-driven marketing. Sylvia is a featured expert and speaker in leading publications and professional associations across the globe. Connect with Sylvia Garibaldi:  Website: https://im-campus.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sylviagaribaldi/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sylvia.sgandassociates/ Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
• Clay Stelzer: Radical Responsibility and the Path to Full Aliveness 01.06.2026 33min

  What would you be willing to risk for “full aliveness”? In this episode, leadership coach Clay Stelzer unpacks radical responsibility, unconscious fear patterns, and how courageous self-awareness can transform the way you lead, work, and live. In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Clay Stelzer discuss: The meaning of “full aliveness” and positive selfishness Radical responsibility vs. victim, blame, and hero patterns Unconscious fears around security, approval, and control Feedback, delegation, and leadership blind spots Handling triggers, anger, and emotional energy as a leader Key Takeaways: You can’t create a fulfilling life or career without first getting radically honest about what you truly want and what you’re currently sacrificing to please others. Most of the outcomes people dislike in their lives are driven by reactive, fear-based decisions made without intention. Leaders are constantly influenced by three unconscious fears: threats to security, approval, and control, and these fears quietly shape decisions around feedback, delegation, and team dynamics. Taking radical responsibility means noticing your patterns, acknowledging your part in any situation, and choosing to learn rather than blame, shame, or play the hero. Emotional triggers and anger shouldn’t be buried; when you move that energy in healthy ways, you regain access to clarity, curiosity, and better leadership choices. "If you could be absolutely selfish and hurt no one's feelings, what would you want? Just understanding that is so important, because then you can get clear about what am I sacrificing or what am I compromising." —  Clay Stelzer Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Join the Be That Lawyer Community and connect with ambitious lawyers who are serious about growing their book of business, strengthening their brand, and becoming confident, consistent rainmakers. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor! LEX Reception: https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyer Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Clay Stelzer: Clay Stelzer is an executive coach, public speaker, and founder of 15sixty, where he helps high-performing leaders, founders, and senior teams get unstuck, reclaim professional alignment, and take radical responsibility for their lives and businesses. Grounded in the principles of Conscious Leadership, Clay draws on a rich professional background that includes building a global team coaching practice at Salesforce, where he supported over 150 international teams and leaders. He pairs his extensive coaching credentials—including an ICF Professional Certified Coach (PCC) designation, ORSC certification, and a Conscious Leadership Group certification—with a BA in Psychology from the University of Illinois and an MBA from Indiana University’s Kelley School of Business. Known for his deep presence, fierce honesty, and rare ability to challenge leaders without judgment, Clay creates the vital conditions for trust, clarity, and bold collective leadership from his home in Glen Ellyn, Illinois, where he lives with his family and their black lab. Connect with Clay Stelzer:  Website: https://15sixty.com/ Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
• Scott Mason: Rewriting Your Lawyer Story for Growth and Freedom 28.05.2026 38min

  Trapped in a “successful” legal career that still feels miserable? In this episode, Scott Mason reveals how toxic myths, rigid roles, and fear-based stories quietly sabotage lawyers’ happiness, business development, and long-term success, and how to rewrite your narrative into a heroic one. In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Scott Mason discuss: Storytelling, symbolism, and the narratives lawyers live by The five “toxic myths” and how they trap attorneys Identity vs. role and redefining who you really are Mindset, risk-taking, and breaking through fear in business development Revenue diversification, near-death wake-up calls, and life lessons Key Takeaways: The stories you tell yourself about business development, success, and your career become the symbolic scripts that ultimately define your identity and legacy. External validation and social expectations can trap lawyers in careers and lifestyles that look impressive on the outside but feel empty or misaligned on the inside. Confusing your professional role with your core identity creates fragility; separating the two opens space for growth, reinvention, and more authentic choices. Mindset work is not “optional” if you want sustainable business development. Unexamined myths around risk, failure, and sales can quietly sabotage your efforts. Overreliance on a single revenue stream or professional lane is dangerous; diversifying how you create value and income is both a business and a life-preservation strategy. "You're living out the ritual myth when you engage in behaviors or ways of being over and over and over again, even though they no longer serve you." —  Scott Mason Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Join the Be That Lawyer Community and connect with ambitious lawyers who are serious about growing their book of business, strengthening their brand, and becoming confident, consistent rainmakers. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor! LEX Reception: https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyer Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Scott Mason: Scott Mason is an executive leadership coach, keynote speaker, and founder of My Freedom Rocks, where he specializes in helping attorneys and corporate leaders transform their careers by dislodging "toxic myths" and unlocking professional freedom. A graduate of Columbia Law School, he spent over 25 years working as an attorney and C-suite executive in the government and non-profit sectors, including serving as second-in-command of New York City's central administrative law court, before successfully scaling and running a multi-city manufacturing company. Today, he channels his deep corporate, legal, and entrepreneurial experience into a signature, mythology-inspired coaching framework designed to catalyze personal charisma, build resilience, and ignite authentic leadership. Connect with Scott Mason: Website: https://www.myfreedomrocks.com/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Myth_Slayer LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/themythslayer/ Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
• Jordan Ostroff & Jeremy Baker: Scaling a Solo Law Firm Without Losing Your Life (Part 2) 25.05.2026 33min

  The real challenges begin when your solo practice finally starts to take off. In this episode, you’ll learn how to manage growth, hire wisely, protect your time, and build a profitable, sustainable firm instead of drowning in low‑value work. In this episode, Steve Fretzin, Jordan Ostroff, and Jeremy Baker discuss: Constraints and growing pains of a solo law firm Time management, delegation, and letting go Revenue vs. systems and when to build processes Finding clients through networks, content, and clear positioning Hiring strategy, vetting candidates, and building for profit Key Takeaways: Growth brings new constraints, and the job of a solo is to constantly identify which constraint matters most right now and address it without creating a bigger problem elsewhere. Tracking time and ruthlessly eliminating low‑value tasks is essential; answering phones and doing your own books will keep you stuck in first gear. Revenue should come before heavy process-building, but documenting how you do things early makes onboarding future hires dramatically easier. Defining an ideal client and then going where those people already gather turns scattered marketing into focused, repeatable business development. Profitability and the kind of life you want should drive decisions about firm size, hiring, and practice areas—not what other lawyers around you are doing. "The beauty of life is you get to make your own scorecard for 99% of things, so make sure you have the right scorecard." —  Jordan Ostroff Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Join the Be That Lawyer Community and connect with ambitious lawyers who are serious about growing their book of business, strengthening their brand, and becoming confident, consistent rainmakers. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor! LEX Reception: https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyer Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Jordan Ostroff: Jordan Ostroff is the CEO of Driven Law and Carpe Diem Consulting. A former prosecutor and the first lawyer in his family, Jordan overcame $200,000 in early business debt to build a thriving, low-volume personal injury practice. Now the best-selling author of Love Your Law Firm, he works 20–25 hours a week, allowing him time for family and coaching other attorneys to achieve a similar high quality of life. About Jeremy Baker: Jeremy Baker is a veteran construction attorney and litigator representing owners, developers, and design professionals. In his sixth year of solo practice, he specializes in cost-efficient solutions for issues like contract negotiation and sustainable design. While an experienced litigator in 30+ venues and dozens of arbitrations, Jeremy prioritizes dispute avoidance and alternative dispute resolution. An early proponent of the Guided Choice Dispute Resolution System, he provides strategic advocacy to resolve high-stakes claims without the need for traditional litigation. Connect with Jordan Ostroff: Website: https://www.legaleasemarketing.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jordan-ostroff/ Connect with Jeremy Baker:  Website: https://designbuildlaw.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremysbaker/ Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
• Jordan Ostroff & Jeremy Baker: From Big Law and Prosecution to Thriving Solo Practices (Part 1) 21.05.2026 34min

  Thinking about going solo but stuck in anxiety and overplanning? In this episode, two lawyers who successfully left prosecution and big law share the real math, mindset, and first 90‑day moves that make or break a new solo practice. In this episode, Steve Fretzin, Jordan Ostroff, & Jeremy Baker discuss: Deciding when and why to go solo Leaving a firm the right way and preserving relationships Planning for cash flow, costs, and the first 90 days Using AI and lean tech instead of heavy overhead Common mistakes with hiring, planning, and business development Key Takeaways: The decision to launch a solo practice often comes from a clear moment of misalignment, realizing the “next promotion” or status quo is not the life or career you actually want. A realistic financial and marketing plan, what you’ll spend, how you’ll earn, and where new files will come from, is more important than a perfect logo, office, or tech stack. Maintaining integrity and open communication when you leave a firm protects your reputation, preserves referrals, and can turn former colleagues into long-term allies. Early-stage solos should prioritize cash flow and relationships over tinkering with systems; networking your existing contacts usually beats waiting on websites and ads to work. AI tools can dramatically reduce startup costs and speed up execution, but they are a supplement to, not a substitute for, consistent outreach and business development. "What I did wrong in year one was I didn't hire people, and what I did wrong in year two is I hired people the wrong way." —  Jeremy Baker Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Join the Be That Lawyer Community and connect with ambitious lawyers who are serious about growing their book of business, strengthening their brand, and becoming confident, consistent rainmakers. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor! LEX Reception: https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyer Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Jordan Ostroff: Jordan Ostroff is the CEO of Driven Law and Carpe Diem Consulting. A former prosecutor and the first lawyer in his family, Jordan overcame $200,000 in early business debt to build a thriving, low-volume personal injury practice. Now the best-selling author of Love Your Law Firm, he works 20–25 hours a week, allowing him time for family and coaching other attorneys to achieve a similar high quality of life. About Jeremy Baker: Jeremy Baker is a veteran construction attorney and litigator representing owners, developers, and design professionals. In his sixth year of solo practice, he specializes in cost-efficient solutions for issues like contract negotiation and sustainable design. While an experienced litigator in 30+ venues and dozens of arbitrations, Jeremy prioritizes dispute avoidance and alternative dispute resolution. An early proponent of the Guided Choice Dispute Resolution System, he provides strategic advocacy to resolve high-stakes claims without the need for traditional litigation. Connect with Jordan Ostroff: Website: https://www.legaleasemarketing.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jordan-ostroff/ Connect with Jeremy Baker:  Website: https://designbuildlaw.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremysbaker/ Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
• Simone Fulmer Gaus: Building a Law Firm on People, Pipeline, Process, Product, and Profit 18.05.2026 30min

  What happens when a trial lawyer stops replicating the traditional firm model and starts treating her practice like a business? In this episode, Simone Fulmer Gaus shares the five-part framework that took her from burnout and cash-flow crises to a scalable, values-driven law firm. In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Simone Fulmer Gaus discuss: Facing hard truths and business challenges in law practice Leaving the traditional firm model to build a different kind of practice The five pillars: people, pipeline, process, product, profitability Delegation, time blocking, and working on the business Values-based hiring and retaining the right team Key Takeaways: You cannot build a healthy, scalable practice if you insist on personally controlling every aspect of the firm. Treating the firm as its own “entity” that needs care and strategy, separate from the legal work, changes how you make decisions. Structuring the business into clear buckets (people, pipeline, process, product, profitability) gives clarity on what’s broken and what to fix first. Setting aside dedicated time each week to work on the business, not just in it, is essential to moving out of chaos. Hiring and retaining the right people depends less on résumés and more on alignment with clearly defined core values. "You can automate so much of what you could do, you can delegate so much of what you do, and you can definitely, whether you believe it or not, eliminate a whole lot of those hats you're wearing." —  Simone Fulmer Gaus Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Join the Be That Lawyer Community and connect with ambitious lawyers who are serious about growing their book of business, strengthening their brand, and becoming confident, consistent rainmakers. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor! LEX Reception: https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyer Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Simone Fulmer Gaus: Simone Fulmer Gaus is a nationally recognized plaintiff trial lawyer and co-founder of Fulmer Sill, with nearly three decades of experience in high-stakes civil litigation. Specializing in insurance bad-faith disputes and catastrophic injury cases, Simone brings a unique "insider" perspective to her practice, having begun her career in the general counsel’s office of a major insurance company. Since 1998, she has leveraged this knowledge to hold powerful insurers accountable, ensuring they honor their obligations to policyholders and injured individuals. Beyond the courtroom, Simone is a respected author and speaker, focusing on law firm leadership and operational structure. Her work is informed by both professional rigor and personal experience; after a family member sustained a traumatic brain injury, she deepened her commitment to families facing life-altering harm. Today, she balances her role as an advocate with her work as the author of The Set-Up, helping other trial firms achieve sustainable growth through disciplined preparation and strategic clarity. Connect with Simone Fulmer Gaus: Website: https://www.fulmersill.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/simonefulmergaus/ Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
• Elise Holtzman: The Three Pillars of Business Development for Lawyers 14.05.2026 33min

  Most lawyers are taught to color inside the lines until they realize that won’t build the book of business they want. In this episode, you’ll learn how to move from random acts of marketing to a focused, scalable rainmaking strategy using relationships, visible expertise, and a true support team. In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Elise Holtzman discuss: Mindset shift from “born rainmaker” to “learned skill” Getting started: moving beyond random acts of marketing The three pillars of business development (relationships, visible expertise, thoughts/time/team) Breaking through plateaus at $500K+ and $1M+ books of business Delegation, building a team, and the role of a “lieutenant”/sponsor Key Takeaways: Business development is a learnable skill, not an innate talent reserved for a select few; lawyers who treat it like any other competency they’ve mastered can grow serious books of business. Hope is not a strategy. Clarity on ideal clients, referral sources, and where they “hang out” must replace scattered networking and random acts of marketing. Visible expertise is essential: becoming “famous in your niche” through speaking, writing, and thought leadership ensures you’re not the best-kept secret in your practice area. As a book of business grows, time, team, and the courage to say no become critical levers; lawyers must deliberately delegate and build a trusted support structure if they want to scale beyond early successes. Every revenue level introduces new, different challenges; plateaus are not signs of failure but signals that it’s time to reassess, refine strategy, and upgrade how you use your time, team, and leadership. "Stepping outside the comfort zone with support is the way to go." —  Elise Holtzman Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Join the Be That Lawyer Community and connect with ambitious lawyers who are serious about growing their book of business, strengthening their brand, and becoming confident, consistent rainmakers. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor! LEX Reception: https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyer Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Elise Holtzman: Elise is the founder and CEO of The Lawyer’s Edge, a coaching and consulting firm that helps lawyers and law firms strengthen business development, leadership, and communication skills. A former practicing attorney with experience at Am Law 100 firms, including Fried Frank and Morgan Lewis, Elise combines her legal background with executive coaching to help attorneys grow profitable practices and build healthier firm cultures. She is a frequent speaker on leadership and rainmaking, host of The Lawyer’s Edge Podcast, and has been featured in publications including Law360 and The New York Law Journal. Elise earned her J.D. from Columbia Law School and her B.A. in Psychology from the University of Pennsylvania. Connect with Elise Holtzman:  Website: https://thelawyersedge.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eliseholtzman/ Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
• Rob Hanna: Why Lawyers Must Embrace Content, Community, and Brand to Stay Relevant 11.05.2026 35min

  In a world where technology and AI are reshaping legal services, simply doing great work is no longer enough. In this episode, you’ll learn how leveraging content, personal brand, and community can keep you relevant, visible, and in demand as the market rapidly evolves. In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Rob Hanna discuss: Health, habits, and intentional self-care for high performers Legal career journey, recruiting, and launching a podcast Thought leadership, content creation, and personal brand for lawyers The rise and power of online and offline communities Technology, AI, and the shifting expectations of legal clients Key Takeaways: Treat your health as a non-negotiable business asset; intentionally scheduling exercise, sleep, and recovery fuels better performance, energy, and longevity in your career. Content is not a vanity play. It’s how you stay visible, demonstrate expertise, and become the “go-to” choice when clients are finally ready to buy. Community gives law firm owners and lawyers a safe space to be seen, heard, and supported, breaking the isolation that comes with leadership and entrepreneurship. Technology and AI are eroding the value of pure grunt work, making human judgment, brand, and community presence more crucial than ever to remain relevant. You don’t need to build a massive empire to benefit from community; starting small, with a few peers, a simple WhatsApp group, or light-touch LinkedIn activity, can compound into powerful opportunities over time. "I've never met anyone who's built a community who's regretted it.” —  Rob Hanna Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Join the Be That Lawyer Community and connect with ambitious lawyers who are serious about growing their book of business, strengthening their brand, and becoming confident, consistent rainmakers. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor! LEX Reception: https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyer Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Rob Hanna: Rob Hanna is the founder and host of Legally Speaking Podcast, one of the leading platforms spotlighting legal professionals and industry innovators around the world. With a background in legal recruitment and a passion for storytelling, he has built a global community by sharing insightful conversations on careers, leadership, and the future of law. Known for his engaging style and commitment to adding value, Rob connects lawyers, entrepreneurs, and thought leaders through content that informs, inspires, and elevates the legal profession. Connect with Rob Hanna: Website: https://legallyspeakingpodcast.com/ Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
• Jason Stiehl: Relationships Over Sales – How Real Connections Build a Legal Practice 07.05.2026 34min

  What does it really take to move from overworked service partner to trusted rainmaker—without feeling salesy or inauthentic? In this episode, you’ll hear a candid breakdown of career missteps, relationship-first business development, and how patience and consistency can transform a legal practice. In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Jason Stiehl discuss: Transitioning from service partner to rainmaker Relationship-based business development Honesty, trust, and cross-marketing inside a firm Content creation, podcasts, and visibility for lawyers Career mistakes, firm moves, and learning from missteps Key Takeaways: Developing a real book of business starts with owning client relationships directly, not just doing great work behind the scenes. The most effective business development feels less like selling and more like building genuine, long-term relationships based on trust. Honesty about what you and your firm can and cannot do is a powerful differentiator—and sometimes means referring work elsewhere. Consistency in follow-up, presence, and outreach matters far more than one-off networking “sprints” or scattershot emails. Before making a big firm move, dig deeply into culture, capabilities, and expectations; the wrong platform can cost time, clients, and momentum. "You have to go to different markets. You have to go to different people. You have to realize that if the audience you’re reaching is the same all the time, you're never going to grow." —  Jason Stiehl Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Join the Be That Lawyer Community and connect with ambitious lawyers who are serious about growing their book of business, strengthening their brand, and becoming confident, consistent rainmakers. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor! LEX Reception: https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyer Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Jason Stiehl: Jason Stiehl is a partner in Crowell & Moring’s Chicago office, where he focuses on class action defense and trade secret protection. An experienced trial lawyer with a nationwide practice, he represents clients across industries in complex litigation, including consumer class actions, advertising disputes, and intellectual property matters. Known for immersing himself in his clients’ businesses, Jason develops strategic defenses to protect their most valuable assets, from brand reputation to proprietary technology. His work spans high-stakes domestic and cross-border disputes, and he has been recognized for his role in securing major dismissals in consumer fraud class actions. Connect with Jason Stiehl: Website: https://www.crowell.com/en/professionals/jason-stiehl LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jason-stiehl-22a82b4/ Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
• Dillon Zwick: The Science of Relationships and Business Development for Lawyers 04.05.2026 34min

  Most lawyers treat networking like a necessary evil, but what if you approached it as a science of human relationships instead of sales? In this episode, you’ll learn how to build a small, powerful circle of trusted relationships that drive referrals, opportunities, and long-term career security. In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Dillon Zwick discuss: The Harvard study on adult development and why relationships drive happiness How to reframe networking from “selling” to genuine relationship building Finding common ground and “natural affinities” to build trust Prioritizing and qualifying strategic partners using likability and referability Using systems, Dunbar’s numbers, and cadence to maintain a high-value network Key Takeaways: Long-term health, happiness, and even business success are far more correlated with the quality of your relationships than with money, status, or genetics. Networking works best when it is treated as a relationship-building exercise rooted in curiosity and service, not as a pitch or sales event. Common ground, including shared background, interests, values, or experiences, is one of the fastest and most reliable ways to create authentic connection and trust. Because time is limited, you need to intentionally prioritize relationships based on both how much you genuinely like someone and how capable and inclined they are to create opportunities for others. A simple, consistent follow-up system and a realistic understanding of how many relationships you can truly maintain, based on Dunbar’s research, can ensure you are never forgotten and rarely without work. "Relationships don't happen just by happenstance. You have to invest in your relationships and the people around you to develop them." —  Dillon Zwick Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Join the Be That Lawyer Community and connect with ambitious lawyers who are serious about growing their book of business, strengthening their brand, and becoming confident, consistent rainmakers. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor! LEX Reception: https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyer Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Dillon Zwick: Dillon has spent about 5 years in the field of corporate renewal with a background in heavy industrial design and manufacturing. Dillon’s primary team role has been finding opportunities, solving difficult problems, and figuring out whatever needs to get done. He has helped numerous client companies successfully work through the corporate restructuring process. In that capacity, he has worked closely with CEOs, CFOs, and their respective accounting staff to support cash-constrained situations, providing transparency and strategic analytical support to the restructuring process. Dillon earned a B.S. in Biochemistry and a B.A. in History from the University of North Texas in 2011. He serves as President on the Turnaround Management Association – Central Texas chapter board, along with being a Director of the Association of Corporate Growth NextGen – Austin/San Antonio chapter board. Connect with Dillon Zwick: Website: https://meadowlarkadvisors.com/about/bio-dillon/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dillon-zwick/ Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
• Nick Augustine: Escaping the Billable Hour Trap with Authentic Content and Smart Delegation 30.04.2026 34min

  In a world where lawyers are drowning in billable hours and generic marketing, this episode breaks down how to build an authentic brand, escape time traps through delegation, and use content strategically instead of reactively. Discover how small shifts in mindset and marketing execution can unlock both growth and a better life outside the office. In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Nick Augustine discuss: The Ferris Bueller mindset and lawyer work-life balance Authentic branding vs. “monkey see, monkey do” legal marketing Choosing the right content format based on personality and strengths Consistency, LinkedIn, and the rise (and risk) of AI-generated content Outsourcing, ego, and overcoming limiting niches in law firm growth Key Takeaways: Many lawyers run so fast on the billable-hour treadmill that they never stop to question whether their practice is actually supporting the life they want, rather than consuming it. Copying what “successful” peers appear to be doing is a trap; real differentiation comes from leaning into what genuinely makes you unique instead of being a polished imitator. The most effective marketing channel is the one you’ll willingly stick with—whether that’s writing, podcasting, answering Q&A, or being the “behind-the-curtain” expert with a bit of mystique. Consistent, thoughtful content can cut through the noise on platforms like LinkedIn, especially when it’s clearly human and not just generic AI output churned out to check a box. Over-niching and letting ego dictate who you serve and how can cap your growth; expanding your perspective beyond one industry, geography, or format can unlock far more opportunity. "Outsourcing... it helps people begin to understand that they have put themselves in a limiting box where they're limited financially by time versus dollars with hourly billers." —  Nick Augustine Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Join the Be That Lawyer Community and connect with ambitious lawyers who are serious about growing their book of business, strengthening their brand, and becoming confident, consistent rainmakers. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor! LEX Reception: https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyer Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Nick Augustine: Nick Augustine is the founder of Lone Star Content Marketing, where he helps law firms grow through strategic, story-driven content that attracts and converts the right clients. With a background in journalism and digital marketing, he brings a clear, conversational style to complex legal topics—making them accessible without losing their depth or authority. Nick has worked with attorneys across the U.S. to build content systems that generate consistent leads, strengthen brand positioning, and support long-term growth. He is also a frequent podcast guest and educator, sharing practical insights on content strategy, SEO, and ethical marketing for legal professionals. Connect with Nick Augustine:  Website: https://lonestarcontentmarketing.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickaugustinetx/ Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
• I'Asia Scarlett-Jones: How Subscription Pricing and Niche Branding Transform a Law Firm 27.04.2026 37min

  Tired of the “fight to the death” model of family law? In this episode, you’ll hear how a modern family law founder rebuilt the divorce practice playbook with intentional branding, low-conflict strategy, and a subscription model that puts families—and profitability—first. In this episode, Steve Fretzin and I'Asia Scarlett-Jones discuss: Origin story and career path into family law Mindset: opportunity in difficulty and intentional practice Niche branding and attracting the right family law clients Subscription model vs. hourly billing in divorce matters Delegation, systems, pricing, and common law firm mistakes Key Takeaways: Viewing setbacks as lessons rather than losses creates resilience in both law practice and leadership. Treating a law firm like a true business—brand, systems, pricing, and niche—separates commodity lawyers from sought-after advisors. A low-conflict, highly strategic approach to family law can protect families from the financial and emotional cost of endless litigation. Subscription-based pricing, when designed thoughtfully, can improve client affordability, predictability, and trust while still being profitable. Undercharging, under-delegating, and delaying systems are expensive mistakes; investing early in support, structure, and proper pricing pays off. "You have to charge what you're worth. Do not be afraid. Charge it. They will pay it." —  I'Asia Scarlett-Jones Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Join the Be That Lawyer Community and connect with ambitious lawyers who are serious about growing their book of business, strengthening their brand, and becoming confident, consistent rainmakers. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor! LEX Reception: https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyer Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About I'Asia Scarlett-Jones: I’Asia “Asia” Scarlett-Jones is the Founder and Managing Attorney of ASJ Law Office, a New York City–based family law firm dedicated to guiding individuals and families through complex legal transitions. With experience in public interest work, court attorney service, and litigation, she brings both deep legal expertise and a client-centered approach rooted in empathy and clarity. Asia focuses on family law matters, including divorce, custody, mediation, and prenuptial agreements, with an emphasis on resolving disputes outside the courtroom whenever possible. An Amazon bestselling author, as well as a wife and mother, she draws from both professional and personal experience to support, inform, and empower her clients while advocating for outcomes that prioritize their well-being. Connect with I'Asia Scarlett-Jones:  Website: https://asjlawoffice.com/ Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.