The Cone of Shame Veterinary Podcast

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  418 - Falling Trust in Research & the Data We Really Need 17.09.2026 26dk

  I’ve got Dr. Jules Benson on the podcast today and we’ve got a doozy of a topic for ya: The sad, sad state of research in vet medicine (my words, not his!) I am bothered by what seems to be a tidal wave of crappy, biased, cherry-picked research lately, and I ask Dr. Benson to get into it with me. How do we get our information in vet med? What do we believe and what do we not believe? How do we actually incorporate data and research into a future that’s feeling more cynical and less trusting? Let’s get into it!Dr. Jules Benson is the Principal at Tapetum Lucidum Consulting and the 2025 Chair at the Veterinary Innovation Council (VIC). With over two decades as a practitioner, industry executive, strategist, and data and technology leader, his focus lies in identifying and applying innovation that can improve the lives of pets, pet families, and veterinary healthcare teams.
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  417 - Making Veterinary Medicine Work for the People Who Do It 10.09.2026 23dk

  Dr. Andy Roark welcomes Dr. Isaac Bott, an Utah practice owner and theriogenologist who works with reindeer, to discuss his run for AVMA president (election July 2027) and the profession’s sustainability challenges. They explore how rising cost of care intersects with the need to pay living wages and retain veterinarians, technicians, and support staff, arguing vet medicine is not overpriced even if care can be unattainable for some clients. Bott emphasizes retention through sustainable workplaces, burnout reduction, and clear development pathways that let team members fully use their training, including technician specialization and continued growth for veterinarians. They discuss burnout drivers such as student debt, emotional strain, call burden, and workplace dynamics, and advocate for unity through organized veterinary medicine so veterinarians keep a strong voice amid regulatory and industry changes. Dr. N. Isaac Bott was raised in the small town of Castle Dale, Utah. He is a 2009 graduate of Washington State University’s College of Veterinary Medicine. He owns and operates Mountain West Animal Hospital, a mixed animal veterinary facility in Springville Utah. He currently serves on several national and state veterinary boards. He is a past president of the Society for Theriogenology, an international group of veterinarians with expertise in animal reproduction. In 2023, he was Awarded the Dr. John Steiner Award for Practitioner Excellence. In 2024 he was given the Utah Veterinarian of the Year award. He has also served as a council member and chair of the American Veterinary Medical Association’s Council on Veterinary Service. He also has served as the co-chair of the Utah Veterinary Medical Association’s Legislative Committee. He currently serves as the American Veterinary Mecidcal Association (AVMA) delegate for the Society for Theriogenology. He also serves on the board for the AVMA Political Action Committee, the dean’s advisory board at Utah State University’s College of Veterinary Medicine, and as a member of Theriogenology Foundation board. He has extensive experience with strategic planning, legislative process and organizational leadership. He has also authored over a dozen peer-reviewed scientific articles, a dozen textbook chapters, and has traveled the globe providing theriogenology services for camelids and cervids. He is the proud father of three children: Kaycee, Kayden and Kendyn.
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  416 - Is It Bad Medicine or Just a Bad Outcome? 03.09.2026 21dk

  Dr. Chad R. Brown, DVM (Purdue), executive director of the Lloyd Veterinary Medical Center at Iowa State University, joins Dr. Andy Roark to tackle a gut-punch truth in veterinary medicine: good decisions do not always equal good outcomes, and outcome-based judgment can be brutal on clinicians. They unpack how hindsight bias and outcome bias trick us into “judging our past self with our future self’s information,” rewarding lucky medicine and fueling shame after tough cases. Chad argues for de-emphasizing outcomes and emphasizing decision-making processes we can control, like communication, diagnostics, anesthesia monitoring, and checklists, especially when training students, interns, and residents. They also discuss how outcome fixation can break good clinicians through overcorrection or apathy, and how focusing on process can reduce burnout and support spectrum-of-care thinking.
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  415 - Vet Medicine as Dark Comedy 27.08.2026 18dk

  Dr. Steve Deels, a New Zealand emergency veterinarian and career coach, joins Dr. Andy Roark to tackle a familiar gut punch: "you can save a life at 2:00 a.m. and still get a one-star review because the wait was too long." They dig into dark humor as a healthy coping tool, the unrealistic expectations placed on vets as jack-of-all-trades clinicians, and how Steve’s early mixed-animal work and later corporate clinic burnout pushed him toward life coaching and practical strategies like daily journaling (three successes and one gratitude). You will walk away feeling validated, more resilient, and better equipped to spot the 90 percent that is good, not just the 10 percent that drains you, plus a preview of Steve’s upcoming book 'Bite Marks and Burnout'. Gang, let’s get into this episode.
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  414 - What if the whole vet team got production pay? 20.08.2026 23dk

  Dr. Ivan Zak, DVM, entrepreneur and former CEO of SmartFlow and Galaxy Vets, joins Dr. Andy Roark to dig into one of the spiciest topics in vet med, whether production pay is actually “bad,” and what happens when salary-only pay gets weaponized as burnout prevention. They unpack Ivan’s experience switching Galaxy Vets to straight salary, watching productivity and hours drop, and realizing the business risk of blocked schedules and reduced case acceptance. Ivan shares how that led to Galaxy Vets’ shared production approach in Canada, where vets earn 25% based on total organization revenue divided by shifts, paired with employee ownership and core values like owner’s mindset and big picture thinking to drive teamwork, accountability, and cost awareness. Ivan also discusses leadership transitions, culture as a selection tool, and his new Serenity Vet mission to reduce labor costs. Gang, let’s get into this episode.Ivan "Zak" Zakharenkov, DVM, MBADr. Ivan Zak is a veterinarian, entrepreneur, and operator. His startups include SmartFlow, the first workflow optimization system (acquired by IDEXX), Galaxy Vets, an employee-owned group of urgent care clinics, and, most recently, Serenity Vet, an operating system for relief management and labor optimization.Ivan is passionate about bridging the gap between clinical excellence and strong business outcomes — building veterinary organizations where vets don't have to choose between being great doctors and understanding the enterprise they're part of.Dr. Zak graduated from the Atlantic Veterinary College and holds an MBA in International Healthcare Management. He lives in Saint John, New Brunswick, with his wife and two kids.
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  413 - Post-Op Pain and Enrichment: Are We Sedating Instead of Treating? 13.08.2026 31dk

  Tabitha Kucera, VTS (Behavior) and founder of Chirrups and Chatter, joins Dr. Andy Roark to unpack what "keep them quiet" actually means after surgery. Using real cases like a beagle mix post-abdominal surgery and a cat post-PU, Tabitha shares low-mobility enrichment options such as snuffle mats, frozen Kongs, and scent work that support recovery without heavy sedation or strict confinement. The result: better client guidance, stronger outcomes, and stronger relationships.Episode Links: chirpsandchatter.comsmall-paws.ca@chirpsandchatterTabitha Kucera is an Elite Fear Free Registered Veterinary Technician, Veterinary Technician Specialist (Behavior), Certified Cat Behavior Consultant, and Karen Pryor Academy Certified Training Partner. She owns Chirrups and Chatter Cat and Dog Behavior Consulting and Training and is the animal behavior technician at The Gentle Vet in Ohio. Tabitha lectures at both regional and national levels, enjoying the opportunity to help people better understand and connect with animals. Additionally, Tabitha is a Fear Free certified speaker and coach, a Fear Free Practice Certification and Implementation Consultant, and the host of the podcast, Tails from a Vet Tech.Tabitha offers organizational consulting and education for veterinary clinics and animal shelters, focusing on best practices that address both the emotional and physical needs of animals. She specializes in behavior and training programs and handling skills. Tabitha has contributed to the development of training and behavior programs for numerous veterinary hospitals and shelters and continues to provide ongoing support to these organizations through her consulting work.
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  412 - High Quality, High Volume Surgery & the Future of Shelter Medicine 10.08.2026 23dk

  Dr. Roberta Westbrook, DVM, takes us inside the world of shelter medicine and challenges what many of us think we know about high quality, high volume surgery, access to care, and animal welfare. From the evolution of modern shelters to the realities of pet homelessness, community responsibility, and the future of keeping pets with the families who love them, this conversation will leave you with a whole new perspective on the incredible work happening behind the scenes.This episode is brought to you ad free by Hill's Pet Nutrition!
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  411 - New Guidelines on Canine Cognitive Dysfunction 06.08.2026 17dk

  Dr. Lisa Radosta, DVM, DACVB, joins Dr. Andy Roark on the Cone of Shame Veterinary Podcast to discuss canine cognitive dysfunction syndrome (CDS) and how to tell normal aging from something treatable. Radosta emphasizes screening all dogs starting at age seven, tracking mentation and behavior changes against each dog’s baseline, and watching for signs such as disorientation, interaction changes, sleep-wake disruptions, house-training lapses tied to learning and memory loss, anxiety, and aggression. She recommends annual screening until about age 10 to 11, notes CDS exists on a spectrum that can affect quality of life, and advises working up systemic disease while starting symptom-focused treatment immediately. She also highlights brain health support with researched supplements introduced gradually and encourages regular enrichment and “old dog” learning activities to help cognitionDr. Radosta graduated from the University of Florida College of Veterinary Medicine in 2000. She completed a residency in Behavioral Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania. During her residency, she was awarded the American College of Veterinary Behaviorists Resident research award two years in a row. Dr. Radosta is the owner of Florida Veterinary Behavior Service, a specialty behavior practice in southeast Florida and co-owns Dog Nerds, an online educational resource for owners whose pets have behavior disorders.She is a sought after speaker nationally and internationally. She is a coauthor of several books including: Behavior Problems of the Dog and Cat, 4th edition and From Fearful to Fear Free. She is a contributing author for Blackwell’s Five Minute Veterinary Consult, Blackwell's Five-Minute Veterinary Consult Clinical Companion: Canine and Feline Behavior, Decoding your Cat, Canine and Feline Behavior for Veterinary Technicians and Nurses and Feline and Small Animal Pediatrics. Her new textbook, Handbook of Behavior Problems of the Dog and Cat, 4th Edition is due out May, 2023.She has published research articles in the Journal of Applied Animal Behavior Science, Journal of Veterinary Behavior and The Veterinary Journal and written review articles for Advances in Small Animal Medicine and Surgery, Compendium, NAVC, Veterinary Team Brief, Clinician’s Brief and AAHA Newstat. She has served on the Fear Free Executive Council and the AAHA Behavior Management Task Force.She has been interviewed for many publications including Cat Fancy, Dog Fancy, Palm Beach Post, NAVC Clinician’s Brief, Sun Sentinel, WebMD, AAHA trends, Real Simple, Good News for Pets, Catster, DVM 360 and AAHA News Stat. She has appeared on Lifetime television, Laurie Live, local news in southeast Florida, Mitch Wilder's Amazing Pet Discoveries, Nat Geo Wild, Animal Planet, Steve Dale's Pet Talk and Dogs, CNBC and Cats and Scapegoats.
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  410 - How to Build Confident, Competent Early Career Vets 30.07.2026 24dk

  Building Confident New Grad Vets: Mentorship, Psychological Safety, and Onboarding That Works Dr. Jason Szumski, DVM, joins Dr. Andy Roark to tackle a problem every hospital feels, new grads want to do great medicine, but they are often scared of mistakes, lawsuits, and being “on their own” before they are ready. They dig into why mentorship is the top priority for vet students, what strong onboarding actually looks like (psychological safety, structured but flexible timelines, and honest expectations that new grads are an investment), and how to build real autonomy without ripping away the security blanket. Jason shares practical mentor and mentee strategies, including having new doctors bring a plan, getting hands-on in surgery, using curiosity instead of confrontation, and reinforcing confidence by revisiting past wins. Gang, let’s get into this episode. Keywords: veterinary mentorship, new graduate veterinarian, veterinary onboarding, clinical confidence. https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonszumski (LinkedIn) Dr. Jason Szumski is an entrepreneurial practicing veterinarian, speaker, and educator focused on helping veterinarians work more efficiently and sustainably in clinical practice. He graduated from the University of Illinois College of Veterinary Medicine in 2023, where he served as both class president and president of the Veterinary Business Management Association (VBMA). After spending three years in a fast-paced suburban Chicago emergency hospital, he transitioned into his current role as Medical Director of a five-doctor general practice, giving him experience in both high-volume ER medicine and long-term primary care leadership. He is also the co-founder of VetSOAP, an AI-powered workflow tool used by thousands of veterinarians daily to streamline medical records, improve communication, and help teams get home on time. Jason regularly speaks on topics including new graduate development, AI in veterinary medicine, and clinical efficiency, with a focus on building practical systems that help doctors move from chaos to confidence in practice.
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  409 - A Cry For Help From the Pathology Department 23.07.2026 28dk

  A Cry for Help in Veterinary Pathology, Burnout, Economics, Digitization, and AI with Dr. Eric Fish Dr. Eric Fish, DVM, DACVP, joins Dr. Andy Roark to tackle a tough question: Why does being a veterinary clinical pathologist feel darker right now, and what happens if AI turns “nice to have” diagnostics into “don’t need to have”? They unpack burnout and pay compression (including pathologists earning less than new grad GPs), consolidation in the lab market, and how digitization has pushed cytology toward point-of-care and high-volume “turn and burn” workflows with per-case bonuses that can be as low as $8 to $12. Eric explains how consultative lab medicine has shifted toward internists, why cytology’s cost and turnaround time are eroding its value, and what a better future could look like with AI that augments, triages, and keeps a human in the loop. Gang, let’s get into this episode. Keywords: veterinary pathology, clinical pathologist burnout, digital cytology, AI in veterinary medicine. Links: Substack newsletter All Science Great and Small; LinkedIn. Dr. Eric Fish is a veterinary clinical pathologist and laboratory director at a large private referral center, with a career spanning academia, entrepreneurship, and industry. He co-founded Lacuna Diagnostics, the first point-of-care digital cytology company, spent years at IDEXX as a diagnostician and technology scouting manager, and even found time to work occasional relief ER shifts. Eric brings a unique perspective to the conversation around artificial intelligence: he has not only used voice recognition and large language model AI tools in his own practice, but also worked on teams building computer vision applications for medical imaging. He writes about AI and other hot topics in veterinary medicine in his Substack newsletter, All Science Great & Small.
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  408 - Beyond Trazodone: When the "Chill Protocol" Isn’t Chilling 16.07.2026 31dk

  Beyond Gabapentin and Trazodone, Smarter Pre-Visit Anxiety Meds with Dr. Chris Pachel Dr. Chris Pachel, DVM, DACVB, joins Dr. Andy Roark to tackle a problem every clinic knows too well, stressed pets, stressed owners, and appointments that start going sideways before the car even leaves the driveway. They dig into pre-visit pharmaceuticals beyond the usual gabapentin and trazodone, including when to increase doses, when sedation is masking anxiety (not fixing it), and how options like clonidine, benzodiazepines, and even dexmedetomidine can fit the patient in front of you. Chris also shares how his new Animal Behavior Clinic space in Portland is reducing stress fast, plus practical tips for at-home trial runs, safety planning, and cautions around acepromazine and “chill protocol” variations. Gang, let’s get into this episode. Dr. Chris Pachel is a board-certified veterinary behaviorist and is the owner and lead clinician at the Animal Behavior Clinic in Portland, Oregon. Dr. Pachel lectures extensively worldwide, teaches courses at multiple veterinary schools in the United States, and has authored numerous articles and book chapters for veterinarians and pet owners. He is a sought-after expert witness for legal cases and serves on the Editorial Advisory Board for dvm360. He is also a Vice-president of Veterinary Behavior for Instinct Dog Behavior and Training, as well as co-owner of Instinct Portland, which opened in the fall of 2020.
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  407 - The Dangers of Dutch 09.07.2026 25dk

  Dr. Andy Roark hosts Dr. Matt Salois, an economist, VMG president, and adjunct faculty at Cornell’s College of Veterinary Medicine, to discuss his Today’s Veterinary Business article on the “dangers of Dutch Pets veterinary telemedicine,” using a Trojan horse metaphor. They argue that when a “no strings attached” solution promises cheaper, easier access by reducing restrictions, vets should be skeptical because removing safeguards like the VCPR and physical exams is not the same as innovation. The conversation covers how pharmacy revenue subsidizes clinic services, concerns that Dutch’s model and rhetoric may erode trust in veterinarians, and how misdiagnoses without exams can increase costs, especially for seriously ill pets. They also discuss delayed presentation, accountability, and who bears risk when medical decisions go wrong.
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  406 - HoF - Fireworks Phobia Over the Phone 02.07.2026 15dk

  Dr. Lisa Radosta, DVM, DACVB, joins Dr. Andy Roark for a timely Hall of Fame episode that every veterinary professional should revisit before fireworks season kicks into high gear. If you've ever had a client call in a panic hours before the fireworks start, this episode breaks down what you can do, what realistically helps, and how to set pets up for success when noise phobias strike. Gang, let's get into this episode!
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  405 - Redefining the DVM Career Path 29.06.2026 20dk

  Dr. Matt Silvius, DVM, shares a career journey that challenges the idea that veterinarians only have one path to leadership. Matt shares his journey from kennel technician to practice owner and multi-site leader, exploring entrepreneurship, mentorship, and the many ways veterinarians can build fulfilling careers. If you've ever wondered what career growth, ownership, or leadership opportunities can look like in modern veterinary medicine, this episode will leave you inspired to think bigger about what's possible.This episode is brought to you ad-free by NVA General Practice!
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  404 - HDYTT: The Critical Feline Patient 25.06.2026 23dk

  Tasha McNerney, CVT, CVPP, VTS (Anesthesia & Analgesia), tackles one of the most stressful situations in veterinary medicine: the critical feline patient crashing through the door after severe trauma. If you've ever felt the urge to rush a painful cat straight into anesthesia, this episode will help you slow down, stabilize first, and make smarter decisions about oxygen delivery, shock management, analgesia, and anesthesia protocols. You'll walk away with practical tips to improve patient outcomes and a clearer understanding of why stabilization is the first treatment. Gang, let's get into this episode!
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  403 - Improving Animal Welfare at Commercial Dog Breeding Kennels 18.06.2026 23dk

  Dr. Tess House, DVM, MPH, dives into a topic that can spark strong opinions: commercial dog breeding kennels. If you've ever wondered what veterinarians can do to improve animal welfare in these facilities, or what standards, oversight, and welfare programs actually look like behind the scenes, this episode breaks it all down in a thoughtful and practical way. You'll learn about USDA licensing, programs of veterinary care, canine welfare assessments, and how veterinarians can help breeders and pet owners make better decisions for dogs. Gang, let's get into this episode!Resources MentionedUSDA Animal Care Search ToolSample APHIS FormsAPHIS Form 7002: Program of CareAPHIS Form 7013: Exercise Plan for DogsCanine WelfareCanine Care Certified (Purdue University)AVMA Resources2025 Pet Ownership & Demographic SourcebookAttending Veterinarians & Commercial Dog BreedersPreserving Antimicrobial Effectiveness
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  402 - A New Vet Guide to Working with Senior Paraprofessionals 15.06.2026 29dk

  Vicky Ograin, RVT, VTS (Nutrition), MBA tackles a challenge every new veterinarian faces: how do you earn trust, build confidence, and collaborate effectively when the technicians around you have far more real-world experience than you do? Dr. Andy Roark and Vicky share practical advice for creating strong doctor-technician partnerships, giving and receiving feedback, and building a team culture that benefits patients, clients, and the entire veterinary team.This episode is brought to you by Hill's Pet Nutrition!
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  401 - Three Super-Judgy Things Vets Should Stop Saying (Maybe) 11.06.2026 44dk

  Dr. Kate Boatwright, DVM, joins Dr. Andy Roark for a thoughtful (and surprisingly spicy) conversation about three phrases veterinarians say all the time: "If you can't afford the vet, don't get the pet," "You can't care more than the client does," and "That's below the standard of care." Together, they unpack the nuance behind these statements, explore judgment in veterinary medicine, discuss spectrum of care, client financial limitations, veterinary burnout, and what compassionate, contextualized care really looks like. If you've ever wrestled with balancing patient advocacy, client realities, and your own emotional wellbeing, this episode will leave you thinking long after it's over. Gang, let's get into this episode!
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  400 - That's Bad Advice 04.06.2026 27dk

  Dr. Sarah Boston, DVM, DVSc, DACVS-SA, joins Dr. Andy Roark for a hilarious and surprisingly thoughtful conversation about the worst advice they've heard in veterinary medicine. From "if you love what you do, you'll never work a day in your life" to "just let them simmer" when clients are upset, they unpack the well-intentioned wisdom that can sometimes lead us astray, while exploring career development, work-life balance, veterinary culture, and what actually makes good professional advice. You'll laugh, nod in agreement, and probably rethink a few pieces of guidance you've accepted as truth. Gang, let's get into this episode!
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  399 - ARE PIMS Still the Center of Your Practice? 28.05.2026 23dk

  Jon Ayers, former Chair and CEO of IDEXX, joins Dr. Andy Roark for a conversation that might completely change the way you think about veterinary PIMS, AI scribes, and the future of practice workflows. If you’ve ever felt frustrated by clunky software, disconnected systems, or the endless admin burden slowing your team down, this episode digs into why AI could dramatically reshape how veterinary teams interact with medical records, client communication, and even daily decision-making. From open APIs to AI-powered workflows, Jon breaks down what practice owners should be asking about their software now, and why the clinics that adapt early may have a major advantage in the years ahead. Gang, let’s get into this episode.LINKSJon Ayers on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jon-ayers-a44b3/https://catalystcouncil.org/https://www.vetsoftwarehub.com/