Second Wind by AKA

Épisodes

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  Adam Ferrier: Why Advertising Needs to Stop Making Ads 22.09.2026 40min

  Consumer psychologist and Thinkerbell founder Adam Ferrier thinks advertising has a bigger problem than AI: the industry is still too focused on making ads.In this episode of Second Wind, Adam joins Gully Flowers and Kerrie Finch to unpack what advertising and marketing look like when you start with human behavior rather than the 30-second script.Adam explains why the traditional creative model is breaking down, why advertising creatives need a better understanding of how people actually make decisions, and why some of the biggest creative opportunities are hiding in places the industry routinely ignores.We also get into artificial intelligence and creativity: Adam’s idea of AI as “System 3,” the difference between cognitive offloading and cognitive surrender, and why he believes AI should enhance human creativity rather than simply make agencies more efficient.Adam Ferrier is a consumer psychologist, author and founder of Thinkerbell. Before Thinkerbell, he co-founded Naked Communications in Australia and worked at Saatchi & Saatchi. His career spans behavioral science, brand strategy, creativity and advertising effectiveness.In this episode:* Why advertising needs to think beyond ads* AI, creativity and the rise of “System 3”* System 1, System 2 and how AI changes human thinking* Cognitive offloading vs. cognitive surrender* Brand building, future demand and category entry points* Why the 30-second script still dominates advertising* What’s wrong with the traditional copywriter/art director model* Why creative people need to understand behavioral science* How AI is changing advertising production* Why email, CRM and customer experience are overlooked creative opportunities* Creativity, craft and the future of advertising agenciesAbout Adam FerrierAdam Ferrier is the founder and Chief Thinker at Thinkerbell and one of Australia’s best-known consumer psychologists. He is the author of The Advertising Effect and Stop Listening to the Customer, and has worked across behavioral psychology, brand strategy and creativity.Second Wind is a podcast about what happens next in advertising, creativity, marketing and the people reshaping the industry.Subscribe for more conversations with the people changing advertising and creativity.
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  Pancho Cassis: The Guy Behind Moldy Whopper on Why Most Advertising Gets Ignored 15.09.2026 37min

  Pancho Cassis is Global CCO and Partner at DAVID and one of the creative leaders behind Burger King’s Moldy Whopper, Stevenage Challenge and some of the most awarded advertising of the last decade.His starting point for every brief is brutally simple: people will do anything to avoid advertising.On this episode of Second Wind, Pancho joins Gully Flowers and Kerrie Finch to talk about what it takes to make work people actually want to see — and why spending $50 million doesn’t mean anyone will care.We get into what he learned judging the Cannes Lions Titanium category; why famous campaigns have an advantage at award shows; what makes an idea travel across countries and cultures; and whether the advertising industry has simply created too many awards.Pancho also explains why he doesn’t believe creative culture can be built entirely on Zoom, how DAVID gives junior creatives the chance to shape big ideas, and the lesson his father taught him about persuading clients to buy work that scares them: patience.Plus, we break down DAVID’s Clash of Clans work with Erling Haaland and Pancho’s philosophy of “milking the stone” — don’t stop when you’ve found a good idea; keep pushing until you’ve extracted everything from it.Pancho Cassis has won 192 Cannes Lions, including eight Grand Prix and three Titanium Lions, as well as a D&AD Black Pencil and dozens of Effies. His work spans Burger King, Supercell, Coca-Cola, Magnum and some of the most recognized creative campaigns in the world.Second Wind is a podcast about the people, ideas and forces shaping advertising, creativity and marketing.
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  Inside Cannes Lions & Effie: Paul Kemp-Robertson on What Wins in Advertising Now 01.09.2026 39min

  Cannes Lions has spent decades defining what great creativity looks like. Effie has done the same for effectiveness.Paul Kemp-Robertson sits inside both.As Chief Content Officer of LIONS, Paul has a rare vantage point on the forces shaping the global advertising industry. LIONS brings together Cannes Lions, Effie, WARC and Contagious — institutions that influence what gets celebrated, what gets studied, what gets put on stage and, ultimately, what the industry believes great work looks like.Paul has also watched the industry change from almost every angle. He started at Shots in the early 1990s, when the world’s best advertising arrived on VHS tapes and call-for-entries went out by fax. He went on to Leo Burnett and co-founded Contagious before becoming Chief Content Officer at LIONS.So we wanted to ask him a bigger question:What wins now?Because advertising is at another strange inflection point.AI has made the tools of creativity available to almost everyone. ChatGPT, Claude and the other major AI platforms are rapidly changing how people search, work, make things and consume media. Yet some of the companies building that future are now turning to advertising agencies, brand-building and very human creative work to differentiate themselves.Paul thinks that’s telling.We get into Mother’s work for Claude and its attack on ChatGPT; why an industry flooded with frictionless AI content could put a new premium on human creativity; why craft is ultimately a form of respect for the audience; and whether we’re heading towards a world where “100% human made” becomes something worth signalling.We also go inside the institutions that have spent decades setting the bar for the industry.What is Cannes Lions actually for now? Do awards still influence the direction of advertising? What separates work that wins awards from work that actually works? Why might the client be the bravest person on an award-winning team? And is safe, generic “wallpaper” advertising actually the biggest risk a brand can take?Paul takes us inside AXA’s “Three Words,” one of the standout ideas from Cannes Lions, and the difficult boardroom conversations behind adding domestic violence coverage to its insurance policies. It’s a fascinating example of creativity moving beyond communications and into the business itself.That leads us somewhere even more interesting: what happens when creative people stop being handed a media plan and start getting closer to the product, the organization and the problem?We talk Oatly’s Department of Mind Control, why some of advertising’s greatest ideas came from creatives wandering around factory floors, the Bitcoin investment Paul wishes he’d made, why curiosity still matters, and what the next generation should know coming into the business.And after a career spent thinking about some of the world’s most celebrated advertising, Paul tells us what he’d put on his LinkedIn tombstone: “It’s only advertising.”Paul Kemp-Robertson is Chief Content Officer at LIONS. He co-founded Contagious and previously worked at Shots and Leo Burnett.Second Wind is a podcast about the people, ideas and forces reshaping advertising, creativity and marketing.Hosted by Kerrie Finch and Gully Flowers.A Second Wind podcast by AKA.
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  Stop Making Ugly Noise: Justine Armour on AI, Creativity & Great Advertising 25.08.2026 29min

  “We just have no interest in flooding the public consciousness with ugly noise.”Justine Armour, International Chief Creative Officer at 72andSunny, joins Second Wind to talk about what great creative work looks like when everyone has access to AI.Fresh from serving as a D&AD Jury President, Justine talks about why human craft is becoming more conspicuous, what separates genuinely creative cultures from agencies that merely talk about creativity, and why 72andSunny has no interest in joining the race to make more, cheaper content.We get into what 72andSunny has learned from working with e.l.f., why strategists and creatives should be “getting up in each other’s shit,” and Justine’s five ingredients for great work: simple, surprising, audacious, craft and energy.Justine also explains why Australian creatives tend to spend longer mastering their craft, why she once turned down an ECD opportunity because she didn’t think she’d made enough great work yet, and the Guinness “Surfer” ad that changed her understanding of what advertising could be.Plus: AI and creativity, D&AD, e.l.f., Wieden+Kennedy, creative leadership, agency culture, optimism without toxic positivity, tall poppy syndrome, and why Justine remains determined not to be average.Justine Armour is International Chief Creative Officer at 72andSunny.Second Wind is a podcast about what happens after you’ve made it — and what the best people in advertising, design and creativity learn next.Search Second Wind by AKA.#Advertising #CreativeLeadership #AI
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  The Myth of the “Normal User” | David Vogel on AI, Accessibility & Designing for Real People 13.08.2026 35min

  Most products are designed for someone who doesn’t exist.The average user.David Vogel, Executive Experience Director at Hypersolid and former AKQA design leader, argues that the idea of a “normal” human has quietly shaped everything from schools and workplaces to digital products, customer experiences, and AI. The problem is that normal was never real.In this episode of Second Wind, David joins Gully Flowers and Kerrie Finch to explore why neurodiversity changes the way we think about accessibility, why crash test dummies reveal a deeper flaw in modern design, and why designing for edge cases often creates better experiences for everyone.The conversation also looks ahead. David explains why ChatGPT is only the earliest interface for AI, why brands should be careful about outsourcing customer relationships to AI platforms, and how intelligent experiences could reshape products, retail, and personalization over the next decade.In this episode• Why there is no such thing as a “normal” user• How ADHD and neurodiversity challenge traditional design thinking• What crash test dummies teach us about accessibility• Why designing for edge cases creates better products for everyone• Why ChatGPT is only the beginning of AI• How brands can embrace AI without giving away the customer relationship• What intelligent experiences could mean for the future of retail, work, and customer experienceGuest: David Vogel, Executive Experience Director at HypersolidHosts: Gully Flowers and Kerrie Finch
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  Why Brands Must Refound Themselves in the Age of AI | Craig Elimeliah, Code and Theory 11.08.2026 52min

  AI isn’t changing marketing. It’s changing what a brand is.In this episode of Second Wind, Craig Elimeliah, Chief Creative Officer at Code and Theory, introduces a concept we haven’t been able to stop thinking about since recording: brand refounding.For years, companies have talked about brand transformation. Craig argues we’re entering something much bigger. AI isn’t simply making marketers faster. It’s forcing organizations to rethink the foundations of how brands are built, governed and remembered.We explore why AI exposes disconnected organizations, why brand consistency becomes more valuable as content scales, why consumers are becoming dramatically harder to fool, and why creative leaders are increasingly responsible for shaping entire businesses, not just campaigns.In this conversation:• What “brand refounding” actually means• Why AI is exposing weak brand systems• The difference between brand transformation and brand refounding• Why speed, scale and brand no longer have to compete• How AI creates organizational memory instead of disconnected campaigns• Why creative leaders are becoming business leaders• The future of agencies, brands and creative operating systems• What every CMO should understand before investing in another AI toolCraig Elimeliah is the Chief Creative Officer at Code and Theory, one of the world’s leading digital transformation and creative technology companies. Throughout his career, he’s helped shape products, platforms and brand systems for many of the world’s most influential organizations.Second Wind is hosted by Gully Flowers and Jake Neske, founders of AKA. Each episode features candid conversations with the creative leaders, CMOs, founders and operators shaping the future of advertising, branding, design, AI and business.If you work in marketing, advertising, brand strategy, creative leadership, AI or digital transformation, this conversation will give you a new framework for thinking about what comes next.
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  Amazon Chief Brand Officer Jo Shoesmith on Leadership, AI & Creativity | Second Wind by AKA 28.07.2026 43min

  What does it take to lead one of the world’s biggest brands?Jo Shoesmith joins Kerrie Finch and Gully Flowers shortly after becoming Chief Brand Officer at Amazon to discuss leadership, AI, creativity, agency relationships, and why the best leaders never stop proving themselves.From Amazon’s leadership principles to building trust, influencing at scale, and preparing for a future shaped by AI, this is a practical conversation for anyone leading creative teams, brands, or businesses.In this episode:Becoming Amazon’s Chief Brand OfficerAmazon’s approach to leadership and trustHow AI is changing creative workWorking with agencies more effectivelyWhy great leaders prove themselves every dayBuilding influence beyond the creative departmentAbout Second Wind by AKASecond Wind by AKA features candid conversations with the creative leaders, founders, CMOs, producers, and operators shaping modern marketing, business, and culture.New episodes every other Tuesday.https://hey-aka.com/second-wind
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  Kelly Knapp on Choreographing Creativity at the $2B Sphere, Netflix House, & VS Fashion Show 21.01.2026 24min

  Kelly Knapp has helped shape some of the most ambitious experiential work in the world; from the $2 billion Sphere in Las Vegas to Netflix’s first permanent venues and the Victoria’s Secret Fashion Show.In this episode of Second Wind, Kelly shares how a background in ballet, music, landscape architecture, and extreme outdoor exploration informs her belief that creative work is choreography; the careful layering of elements to create meaning at scale.We talk about immersive audio, designing for empathy, why she’s skeptical of AI in the creative process, and what it takes to build experiences that feel human even when the technology is anything but.
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  Micah Walker on Why Caring Too Much Still Wins 31.03.2026 51min

  Micah Walker, co-founder of Bear Meets Eagle on Fire, joins Second Wind for a sharp conversation on what it really takes to make better work. He talks about building an agency that refuses to become a smaller version of the big networks, why caring too hard is a feature not a flaw, why the best ideas should never arrive with a safety option, and how great production turns good thinking into something people can actually feel. This one is about creative conviction, craft, culture, and the kind of standards that make the work unforgettable.
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  “Every Idea Starts With a Song” - Jaime Robinson on Emotion, AI, and the Future of Creativity 04.11.2025 38min

  What if every great idea started with a song?Before writing a word or pitching a concept, Emmy-winning creative Jaime Robinson (Co-Founder and CCO of JOAN) finds a song that makes her feel exactly what she wants others to feel.In this episode, Jaime joins Gully Flowers and Kerrie Finch to talk about:Building JOAN into one of the most admired independent agencies in the worldHow emotion (not strategy decks) powers the best creative workThe story behind the Womanikin — a life-saving design that changed CPR training foreverThe future of creativity in the age of AI, and what it really means to “win for humanity”Why the next generation of creatives deserves new ways inA conversation about feeling first, leading boldly, and building work that actually matters.🎙️ Second Wind — candid conversations with the most creative minds in business.
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  Billy Bohan Chinique: The Future of Travel, Fashion, and AI 02.12.2025 40min

  Billy Bohan Chinique, VP of Marketing and Digital Innovation at Virgin Voyages, joins us to talk about the future of travel, fashion, AI, and brand storytelling.He shares how he went from call-center sales to designing digital experiences, how he ended up styling Sir Richard Branson, and why showing up as your real self became an accelerant for his career.We get into Jen.AI, the Jennifer Lopez campaign that pushed AI before it was cool, the making of Virgin’s AI-powered mermaids, the shift toward creators, and why “brand as operating system” is the only approach that still makes sense.If you care about creativity, travel, leadership, or the next frontier of marketing, this is a conversation worth hearing.Chapters:00:00 Styling Richard Branson02:10 Fashion and authenticity03:55 Breaking into travel06:50 Building Virgin Voyages’ digital platform11:05 The origin of Jen.AI with J.Lo16:00 AI-powered mermaids19:50 Brand as operating system26:20 The new creator economy32:00 Talent, hiring, and AI literacy36:20 Becoming an AI-native company39:40 Billy’s legacy
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  "Brand Energy is a KPI" - Paulie Dery, CMO of AG1 18.03.2025 46min

  We had the pleasure of sitting down at SXSW with Paulie Dery, Chief Marketing Officer at AG1.Paulie shared his insights on brand building, the importance of knowing your audience, and the relationship between creativity and performance marketing. He discusses his journey from R/GA to Uber to Yeti and now AG1, the significance of community engagement. Dery emphasizes the need for brands to stay true to their identity while adapting to market changes and highlights the role of creativity in driving business success. In this conversation, Kerrie Finch, Paulie Dery, and Gully Flowers explore the dynamics of community engagement, the importance of targeting core audiences, and the cultural differences in advertising between Australia and the U.S. They discuss the journey of moving to the U.S. and the role of technology in enhancing creativity. The conversation also delves into the significance of creative leadership, the shift towards in-house teams, and the importance of process in fostering creativity. They reflect on the role of marketing in business, learning from mistakes, and the necessity of justifying creative investments. The discussion concludes with insights on creating meaningful brands and empowering young creatives.TakeawaysKnow who you are and who you're not.Focus on your core audience to build a strong brand.Community engagement is crucial for brand loyalty.Creativity drives success in marketing and advertising.Transitioning between brands can reveal valuable insights.Performance marketing should complement brand building.Building relationships with ambassadors enhances brand authenticity.Understanding community needs can guide product development. Creative leadership is crucial for brand success.In-house teams can streamline creative processes.Understanding the business is key for agencies.Mistakes are valuable learning opportunities.Brand energy is a KPIEmpowering young creatives leads to innovative ideas.
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  Why Great Ads Feel Like Childhood Memories | Marques Gartrell, W+K 26.05.2026 59min

  Marques Gartrell is Co-CCO of Wieden+Kennedy New York, the agency behind work for Nike, McDonald’s, Delta, and Michelob Ultra.In this episode of Second Wind:how the Travis Scott meal started from a tweetwhy the Grimace Shake became internet folklorehow W+K made “Horizontal Breakfast” in 7 dayswhy brands are competing with childhood memorieswhat young creatives get wrongwhy Marques still keeps Photoshop openA conversation about culture, instinct, taste, speed, and making work people actually carry around with them.The best work stops feeling like advertising and starts feeling like part of someone’s life.
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  Fabio Ruffet on Mars, Twix, and the Creative Power of Consistency 01.10.2025 37min

  Fabio Ruffet leads some of the world’s most loved brands — including Twix, Snickers, and Mars’ global gum portfolio — but his creative journey started with a bold move: spending all he had on the fanciest envelopes in Argentina to land his first job.In this Second Wind conversation with Gully Flowers and Jake Neske, Fabio reflects on his path from agencies like Ogilvy and Havas to leading brand experience across Europe and beyond. He shares:Why consistency is the most powerful tool for long-term brand building.How Mars is using AI and technology to expand creativity in unexpected ways.Lessons from iconic campaigns like Snickers x Mourinho AI persona and Twix Harmonizer.The role of curiosity, tenacity, and collaboration in building a resilient career.Why rejection, like auditions for actors, is essential for creative growth.This is a candid look at the craft of brand building from someone shaping how billions experience some of the world’s most iconic products.
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  Diane McArter on Leadership, Power, and Building a Culture That Lasts 14.01.2026 23min

  Diane McArter is the founder of Furlined, one of the most respected production companies in the industry.In this episode, Diane reflects on leadership, power, and what it really means to build a culture where people can do their best work.She shares her journey from early leadership at Ridley Scott Associates to founding Furlined, navigating fear, responsibility, and reinvention along the way. We talk about women in leadership, servant leadership, the role of trust, and why a company’s culture is shaped by everyone who enters it.Diane also discusses Manifest Works, her nonprofit creating career pathways for people impacted by foster care, homelessness, and incarceration, and why leadership at its best is an act of service.This is a conversation about growth, empathy, creative courage, and building something that lasts.
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  Diana Hong-Elsey, Head of Global Creative at Benefit / LVMH - Live from Cannes Lions 2025 18.08.2025 37min

  In this conversation, Gully Flowers interviews Diana, with Jake Neske perched off camera.Diana is a creative leader with extensive experience in both agency and brand environments. They discuss her journey from a designer to a creative director, the importance of creative briefs, and the evolving media landscape, particularly the impact of platforms like TikTok. Diana emphasizes the need for collaboration between agencies and brands, the significance of mentorship for young talent, and her vision for a creative culture that values innovation and personal connection. The discussion also touches on the future of creativity in business and the legacy Diana hopes to leave behind.Chapters00:00 Introduction to Creative Leadership02:49 The Journey from Agency to Brand06:10 Navigating the Evolving Media Landscape08:59 The Role of Agencies in Modern Marketing11:54 The Importance of Collaboration and Mentorship15:04 Experiential Marketing and Community Building17:50 The Future of Creativity in Business21:00 Finding and Nurturing Young Talent23:46 Creative Processes and Innovation26:54 Legacy and Personal Values
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  “The brief should pick a fight” — Peter Giorgi, SVP Marketing at Rocket | LIVE FROM SXSW 15.03.2025 24min

  Peter Giorgi has led marketing for some of the world’s most recognized brands, from Bacardi to Celebrity Cruises, and now as SVP of Marketing at Rocket. LIVE from SXSW, he joins Second Wind to share what it really takes to lead with bravery and creativity in a world obsessed with data.In this conversation, Peter reflects on:Reinventing Bacardi while staying true to its heritageHow Celebrity Cruises found cultural relevance through bold ideasWhy the best briefs should “pick a fight”The role of instinct in an industry ruled by metricsWhat bravery looks like in marketing leadership todayA candid conversation about risk, reinvention, and the art of creating brands people actually care about.
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  Why Agencies Are Selling the Wrong Thing ; Anthony Reeves, Kohler 14.07.2026 34min

  AI is making execution cheaper. Brands are building stronger in-house teams. Holding companies are consolidating. Production companies are being pushed further downstream.So what are agencies still uniquely for?Anthony Reeves has spent his career inside some of the world’s biggest agency networks and brands. He has worked at WPP multiple times, held senior roles at Amazon and LVMH, and now leads Global Brand and Creative at Kohler.Anthony joins Gully Flowers to discuss why agencies cannot win on efficiency, Kohler’s line on synthetic people, why too much data can weaken a creative brief, how fear changes the work, and why AI may make brand more valuable rather than less.They also get into creative apprenticeship, why great talent clusters, the danger of becoming too comfortable, and Anthony’s book, Eat the Donkey.Follow Second Wind for honest conversations with the people shaping the creative business.Chapters00:00 Why agencies can’t win on efficiency00:39 Anthony Reeves01:21 Moving to Kohler, Wisconsin01:55 The job of a creative leader02:36 Kohler’s line on synthetic people04:14 How AI changed since Cannes 201806:01 Has more data improved the creative brief?08:40 What happened to the holding companies?10:14 What brands still need agencies for12:44 Fear changes the work14:01 How to lead creative teams18:55 Why AI makes brand more valuable21:18 Eat the Donkey25:56 Advice for young creatives28:19 Why great talent clusters30:22 Reinvesting in people and brand31:22 The danger of being downstream32:40 A better North Star
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  Jason Sperling (Apple “Mac vs PC”) on Working With Steve Jobs & Leading Creativity in the AI Era 17.02.2026 52min

  Jason Sperling is the Chief Creative Officer at INNOCEAN ; and one of the creative leaders behind Apple’s legendary “Mac vs PC” campaign.In this episode of Second Wind, Jason shares what it was really like presenting to Steve Jobs every Wednesday, surviving brutal creative cycles at TBWA\Chiat\Day, and helping turn “I’m a Mac” into one of the most influential campaigns of the century.We also get into:• Convincing Steve Jobs to run digital banner ads• Writing body copy to land a job at Chiat• The six-month grind behind Mac vs PC• Making Honda’s Ferris Bueller Super Bowl spot• Directing Bruce Willis after he walked off set• Why taste matters more than tools in the AI era• How creative leaders survive the jump from maker to manager• The future of agencies in an AI-driven worldIf you care about advertising, leadership, creative resilience, or how iconic work actually gets made — this one is for you.
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  From Pepsi Super Bowl Fame to Tony’s Chocolate Revolution: Sadira Furlow 10.10.2025 38min

  Sadira Furlow’s career is a study in reinvention, from Pepsi’s viral Super Bowl moments (Puppy Monkey Baby, anyone?) to leading global brand and communications at Tony’s Chocolonely. In this conversation, she joins Gully Flowers and Kerrie Finch to talk about trading scale for soul, humor as activism, and what it takes to make ethical storytelling irresistible.She opens up about:Her journey from aspiring orthopedic surgeon to Adweek Brand Genius.How Tony’s turned a chocolate bar into a global protest.Why discomfort is a compass for growth.The line between AI as a tool and AI as a crutch.And what “radical transparency” really looks like in business.A vivid, funny, deeply human look at how creativity, conscience, and curiosity collide.