Product Thinking

Episodi

• Episode 270: How Experimentation Becomes Culture 03.06.2026 14min

  What does it actually take for experimentation to stick inside a product organization? In this compilation episode of the Product Thinking Podcast, Melissa Perri brings together three perspectives on the leadership behaviors, portfolio decisions, and iteration loops that separate real experimentation from theater.David Bland, author of Testing Business Ideas, opens with what he has seen go wrong in well-funded companies that treat experimentation as a checkbox. He follows with a story about programs that died when leadership stopped reinforcing them, and the difference between living in a company's bloodstream versus its DNA.Monica Lewis, VP of Product at LinkedIn, shares the leadership habits that make teams feel safe to test, and the 70/20/10 portfolio framework she uses. Mario Rodriguez, Chief Product Officer at GitHub, closes with how Copilot was built through failures and an outcome that surprised even him.You'll hear us talk about:Why experimentation programs quietly dieDavid Bland describes the checkbox mentality that turns experimentation into a process to navigate, not a way to de-risk. He shares a story of a company whose program lived in their bloodstream but never reached their DNA, and what happened when leadership stopped reinforcing it.The leadership behaviors that make test-and-learn stickMonica Lewis explains how she builds a team that feels safe to experiment, starting with owning mistakes publicly at the all-hands. She walks through her 70/20/10 framework for splitting investment across sure bets, strategic bets, and venture bets, and when to shift the mix.How Copilot was built through failuresMario Rodriguez takes us inside the iteration loop that produced GitHub Copilot. He describes a product that shipped with a 20 to 30 percent acceptance rate but was beloved by users, and how repeated UX failures led to the fill-in-the-middle behavior that defined the product.Episode resources:Check our courses: https://productinstitute.com/Episode 44: Testing Your Ideas with David Blandhttps://www.produxlabs.com/product-thinking-blog/episode-44-david-blandEpisode 227: Inside LinkedIn's Product Strategy Culture with Monica Lewishttps://www.produxlabs.com/product-thinking-blog/episode-227-linkedin-strategy-monica-lewisEpisode 223: Behind the Rise of GitHub Copilot with Mario Rodriguezhttps://www.produxlabs.com/product-thinking-blog/episode-223-ai-github-copilotDavid Bland on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidjbland/Monica Lewis on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/monicamlewis/Mario Rodriguez on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/mariorodriguez3/
• Episode 269: Continuous Discovery Habits That Actually Work 20.05.2026 15min

  Continuous discovery sounds simple and breaks down constantly in practice. In this compilation episode of the Product Thinking Podcast, Melissa Perri brings together three perspectives on what it actually takes to build the habit and why slowing down on discovery is still the fastest path to shipping the right thing.Teresa Torres, author of Continuous Discovery Habits, breaks down the structure underneath every method: outcome, opportunity, and solution. Teams doing this right never have to stop and replan. Christina Wodtke, lecturer at Stanford and formerly at Zynga, follows with the weekly playtesting rhythm she now teaches.Julia Austin, former senior lecturer at Harvard Business School, closes the episode by pushing back on the temptation to skip discovery in the age of AI. Her 80/20 rule: spend most of your time on foundation work, because the false security AI offers cannot replace real conversations with real customers.You'll hear us talk about:The structure underneath every discovery methodTeresa Torres walks through the three-part backbone of all discovery work: outcome, opportunity, and solution. She explains why teams doing this right never have to stop and replan: the next roadmap item emerges from ongoing customer conversations, not annual planning exercises.Building a weekly testing rhythm that sticksChristina Wodtke describes the weekly playtesting rhythm she carried from Zynga into her Stanford classes. She also walks through the scaffolded path from solo testing to designers, friends and family, and finally strangers, so teams build the muscle without exposing rough work too soon.Going slow on discovery in the age of AIJulia Austin makes the case for spending 80% of your time on foundation work and discovery before building anything. She explains why the temptation to skip this step in the age of AI is a trap, and why products that fail and get blamed on marketing usually failed in discovery first.Episode resources:Try Granola today: http://granola.ai/productinstitute(Use the code PRODUCTINSTITUTE to get 3 months free)Check our courses: https://productinstitute.com/Episode 30: Understanding Continuous Discovery With Teresa Torreshttps://www.produxlabs.com/product-thinking-blog/episode-30-teresa-torresEpisode 226: Why Every Product Team Needs a Playtesting Mindset with Christina Wodtkehttps://www.produxlabs.com/product-thinking-blog/episode-226-christina-wotdke-game-designEpisode 231: Laying the Groundwork for Startup Success with Julia Austinhttps://www.produxlabs.com/product-thinking-blog/episode-231-julia-austin-startup-success-ideaTeresa Torres on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/teresatorres/Christina Wodtke on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/christinawodtke/Julia Austin on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/juliaaustin/
• Episode 268: Rethinking What Done Means in Product Ops 06.05.2026 25min

  What does it mean for a product to actually be “done”? Not code in production, but customers buying, using, and loving it. In this compilation episode of the Product Thinking Podcast, Melissa Perri brings together three product leaders to explore the systems that make whole product launches consistent.Trisha Price, then Chief Product Officer at Pendo, argues for shifting the team's definition of done from "code complete" to "whole product complete." She reframes product marketing as a strategic voice in discovery, not a translation layer at launch, and shares how cadences keep the work moving.Kate Towsey, an independent research ops advisor with experience at BBC and Atlassian, frames organizational knowledge as water that needs a dam to stop it leaking away. Jessica Soroky, then Senior Director of Product Operations at Pendo, closes with what whole product launch and cadences look like in practice.You'll hear us talk about:Whole product complete, not just code completeTrisha Price on shifting the definition of done from "code shipped" to "customers using and loving the product." She explains why a feature isn't done until product marketing, support, sales enablement, and go-to-market are aligned, and how product ops orchestrates the launch.Knowledge as a managed assetKate Towsey on why organizations claim knowledge is their most valuable asset but let it leak through tributaries no one is mapping. She lays out how research ops, product ops, and design ops can work as one system for capturing and reusing what teams learn.Cadences that keep product orgs alignedJessica Soroky on the operating cadences that make whole product launches predictable. She walks through Pendo's six-week product impact meetings, monthly roadmap reviews, and weekly leadership data rituals that reduce surprises and keep strategy connected to customer behavior.Episode resources:Check our courses: https://productinstitute.com/Try Granola today: http://granola.ai/productinstitute(Use the code PRODUCTINSTITUTE to get 3 months free)Episode 184: Building Products for Product Managers with Trisha Pricehttps://www.produxlabs.com/product-thinking-blog/2024/8/14/episode-184-building-products-for-product-managers-with-trisha-price?rq=trisha PriceEpisode 208: Scaling Research Ops to Drive Organizational Change with Kate Towseyhttps://www.produxlabs.com/product-thinking-blog/episode-208-kate-towsey-research-ops?rq=Kate TowseyEpisode 217: Behind the Scenes of Pendo's Product Operations Evolution with Jessica Sorokyhttps://www.produxlabs.com/product-thinking-blog/episode-217-jessica-soroky-pendo-product-operations?rq=Jessica SorokyTrisha Price on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/trisha-price-3063081/Kate Towsey on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/katetowsey/Jessica Soroky on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessicasoroky/
• Episode 267: How OKRs Become Outputs Instead of Outcomes 22.04.2026 20min

  OKRs are one of the most misunderstood frameworks in product. They turn into renamed roadmaps, copy-paste cascades, and measures of output instead of real outcomes. In this Product Thinking Podcast compilation, Melissa Perri brings together four leaders who share what it takes to make OKRs actually work.Hugo Froes, then head of product operations at OLX, shares how splitting OKRs into discovery, build, and outcome types gives teams a more honest way to track progress without losing sight of what needs to ship.Jeff Gothelf and Josh Seiden of Sense & Respond Learning explain why key results must measure behavior change and why cascading OKRs is critical thinking, not copy-paste. Anish Bhimani, then CPO at JPMorgan Chase Commercial Banking, shares how his org went from 341 key results to the handful that actually move the business.You'll hear us talk about:Rethinking how OKR types workHugo Froes explains how OLX broke OKRs into discovery, build, and outcome types so teams could stay flexible without losing sight of what actually ships. The approach creates space for parallel tracks of discovery, build, and launch, instead of waiting a quarter to see any progress.What makes a key result actually meaningfulJeff Gothelf and Josh Seiden argue that a key result must measure behavior change, not a feature or launch date. If you can rename your existing roadmap as an OKR without changing anything, the goal is wrong. Cascading OKRs is a critical thinking exercise, not copy-paste.Finding the difference makers inside a huge orgAnish Bhimani shares what happened when he asked his JPMorgan Chase team to map their key results and got 341. Getting down to about 40 real difference makers is what made the framework drive focus. Lead with customer experience, and operational efficiency follows.Episode resources:Try Granola today: http://granola.ai/productinstituteCheck our courses: https://productinstitute.com/Episode 216: Getting OKRs Right: Planning with Impact at OLX with Hugo Froeshttps://www.produxlabs.com/product-thinking-blog/episode-216-hugo-froes-okrs-product-operationsEpisode 156: OKRs for Focus and Alignment with Jeff Gothelf of Gothelf.co & Josh Seiden of Seiden Consultinghttps://www.produxlabs.com/product-thinking-blog/2024/1/31/episode-156-okrs-for-focus-and-alignment-with-jeff-gothelf-of-gothelfco-amp-josh-seiden-of-seiden-consultingEpisode 144: Banking 2.0 or How to Drive Change and Scale in Financial Organizations with Anish Bhimanihttps://www.produxlabs.com/product-thinking-blog/2023/11/8/episode-144-banking-20-or-how-to-drive-change-and-scale-in-financial-organizations-with-anish-bhimani-managing-director-and-chief-product-officer-at-jpmorgan-chase-commercial-bankingHugo Froes on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/hugofroes/Jeff Gothelf on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/gothelf/Josh Seiden on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/jseiden/Anish Bhimani on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/anishbhimani/
• Episode 266: Building for Builders 08.04.2026 16min

  What does it take to keep product teams focused on meaningful work? In this compilation episode, Melissa Perri brings together three product leaders to explore how to cut through overhead, dig into real problems, and resist the pull of shiny technology.Nan Yu, Head of Product at Linear, shares how clunky tools burden PMs with admin work and how his team uncovers real problems behind feature requests. Andrew Davidson, SVP of Product at MongoDB, explains what makes developers a uniquely demanding audience to build for.Jody Bailey, CPTO at Stack Overflow, reflects on what went wrong when companies rushed to ship AI without solving real user problems. Together, these leaders show that great product work starts with understanding real people in real moments.You'll hear us talk about:Reducing PM administrative overheadNan Yu explains how poorly designed tools push admin work onto PMs. When engineering tools are too clunky, developers disengage and PMs end up doing data entry instead of talking to customers. Speed and directness in tooling keep teams focused on real value.Uncovering real problems behind feature requestsNan shares Linear's approach: anchor every request in a specific moment. His team asks customers when they last felt the need for a feature and what actually happened. This often reveals that the real problem differs from the original ask.Staying problem-focused in the rush to adopt AIJody Bailey describes the rush companies felt when generative AI emerged and the mistake of shipping AI solutions before identifying real problems. He shares how Stack Overflow is refocusing on core strengths and expanding who it serves.Episode resources:Try Granola today: http://granola.ai/productinstituteCheck our courses: https://productinstitute.com/Episode 233: How Linear Builds Tools Developers Actually Want with Nan Yuhttps://www.produxlabs.com/product-thinking-blog/episode-233-linear-ai-nan-yuEpisode 209: From Databases to Developer Platforms: The MongoDB Story with Andrew Davidsonhttps://www.produxlabs.com/product-thinking-blog/episode-209-andrew-davidson-databases-platformsEpisode 239: Navigating the AI Shift at Stack Overflow with Jody Baileyhttps://www.produxlabs.com/product-thinking-blog/episode-239-stack-overflow-aiJody Bailey on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/jodybailey/Nan Yu on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/thenanyu/Andrew Davidson on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewad/
• Episode 265: How Marketplace Teams Decide What to Build 25.03.2026 30min

  Creating great product organizations takes more than setting roadmaps. It requires clear priorities, shared decision-making, and a strong sense of what makes the business uniquely valuable. In this episode, Melissa Perri brings together insights from three product leaders on how teams can create focus, alignment, and clarity as they scale.You’ll hear from Kristin Dorsett, Chief Product Officer at Viator at the time, on balancing top-down priorities with bottom-up autonomy and why doing fewer things at once leads to more meaningful progress. Craig Saldanha, Chief Product Officer at Yelp, explains how explicit product principles help teams make better decisions and stay aligned, especially in a two-sided marketplace.Mauricio Monico reflects on lessons from eBay and Wish, including the risks of copying competitors, the importance of explaining strategy clearly across the organization, and why turnarounds often begin by fixing marketplace fundamentals before chasing growth. Together, these perspectives offer a practical look at how product leaders create alignment without losing adaptability.You’ll hear us talk about:Balancing strategy and team autonomyKristin Dorsett explains how her organization combines top-down company priorities with team-level ownership. Some teams are aligned to a small number of company-wide big bets, while others are given lightweight charters and room to define their own roadmap. The conversation shows how strategic direction and local autonomy can work together when expectations are clear.Why doing fewer things leads to better outcomesA major theme in Kristin’s segment is the discipline of focus. She describes the company’s evolution from trying to pursue dozens of major initiatives at once to narrowing that list down to just three. The result was stronger alignment across departments and better progress on the work that mattered most.Product principles and marketplace decision-makingCraig Saldanha shares how Yelp codified its product culture into a set of decision-making tenets. He discusses how those principles help teams handle trade-offs, move faster on reversible decisions, and stay thoughtful on harder-to-reverse choices. He also explains how Yelp thinks about marketplace dynamics, consumer and business needs, and the flywheel that drives sustainable growth.Why companies lose their way when they copy competitorsMauricio Monico reflects on how eBay struggled when it tried to imitate Amazon instead of leaning into its own value proposition. He also walks through Wish’s turnaround, where the initial focus was not growth but restoring marketplace health through better merchant standards, product quality, and delivery performance. His examples show why clarity, differentiation, and strong fundamentals matter more than reactive strategy.Episode resources:Try Granola today: http://granola.ai/productinstituteCheck our courses: https://productinstitute.com/Episode 221: Balancing Strategy and Execution at Scale with Kristin Dorsett:https://www.produxlabs.com/product-thinking-blog/episode-221-kristin-viator-strategy-experimentationEpisode 162: Product Roadmap: Building a Platform for the Next Decade with Craig Saldanha, Chief Product Officer at Yelp:https://www.produxlabs.com/product-thinking-blog/2024/3/13/episode-162-product-roadmap-building-a-platform-for-the-next-decade-with-craig-saldanha-chief-product-officer-at-yelpEpisode 158: Turning the Tide with Mauricio Monico’s Lessons from eBay, Facebook, and Google:https://www.produxlabs.com/product-thinking-blog/2024/2/14/episode-158-turning-the-tide-with-mauricio-monicos-lessons-from-ebay-facebook-and-googleKristin Dorsett on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristindorsett/Craig Saldanha on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/craigsaldanha/Mauricio Monico on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/mspmonico/
• Episode 264: Product at Scale Inside the World’s Largest Financial Institutions 11.03.2026 29min

  This episode explores what it takes to build great products inside large financial institutions where product teams must balance modernization, legacy systems, scale, and regulation. Through conversations with leaders from Vanguard, Chase, and Affirm, Melissa Perri highlights how strong product organizations connect strategy, operating models, and customer outcomes.Marco De Freitas and Amber Brestowski from Vanguard share lessons from digital transformation, including why transformation is ultimately about people, culture, and clarity of outcomes rather than technology alone. They explain how Vanguard ties modernization to its mission by improving client experience in ways that help investors make better long-term decisions. Jameson Troutman, Head of Product for Small Business at Chase, discusses how large organizations can move from funding projects to funding product capacity so teams can continuously prioritize and deliver outcomes.The episode closes with Vishal Kapoor, Senior VP of Product Management at Affirm, who explains how fintech teams can work with legal and compliance as embedded partners instead of blockers. Across all three conversations, the episode offers a practical view of how product leaders can build judgment, align teams to strategy, and create systems that support responsible innovation in regulated environments.You’ll hear us talk about:Digital transformation lessonsVanguard’s perspective makes it clear that successful transformation is not mainly about replacing technology. It depends on culture, talent, operating model changes, and a clear set of goals that teams can return to over time. The conversation also stresses the importance of communicating progress and showing wins throughout long-running transformation efforts.Client experience as strategyThe episode explores how client experience can become a direct expression of company mission. At Vanguard, modernization is framed not just as a design or usability effort, but as a way to help investors make smarter decisions through better defaults, guidance, and insight-rich experiences.Funding products instead of projectsJameson Troutman explains why large organizations need to shift from budgeting individual initiatives to funding product capacity across domains. That change gives teams more ownership and stability while still allowing leadership to manage the portfolio and rebalance where needed. The discussion also connects this funding model to stronger judgment, better prioritization, and faster delivery.Compliance as a product partnerVishal Kapoor describes how Affirm integrates legal and compliance directly into product development so teams can address constraints early and build responsibly at scale. The conversation also covers the role of weekly product reviews, strong metrics, and close cross-functional decision making in fintech environments where risk and trust matter.Episode resources:Try Granola today:http://granola.ai/productinstituteEpisode 213: How Vanguard is Modernizing Finance Through Digital Innovation with Marco De Freitas and Amber Brestowski:https://www.produxlabs.com/product-thinking-blog/episode-213-vanguard-corporate-innovation?rq=marcoEpisode 232: The Art and Science of Product Decisions with Jameson Troutman:https://www.produxlabs.com/product-thinking-blog/episode-232-jameson-troutman-chase-business?rq=jamesonEpisode 196: The Affirm Card: Transforming Payment Flexibility with Vishal Kapoor:https://www.produxlabs.com/product-thinking-blog/2024/11/6/episode-196-the-affirm-card-transforming-payment-flexibility-with-vishal-kapoor?rq=vishalMarco De Freitas on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/marco-de-freitas-80416714/Amber Brestowski on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/amber-brestowski-019b56ab/Jameson Troutman on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameson-troutman/Vishal Kapoor on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/vkapoor/Check our courses: https://productinstitute.com/
• Episode 263: From Product Leader to CEO 25.02.2026 30min

  Creating great products at scale means widening your lens beyond roadmaps and features and learning how to run the business around the product. In this compilation episode, Melissa Perri pulls together three perspectives on what it takes for product leaders to operate at the next level: stepping into broader executive responsibility, building real ownership in teams, and making product decisions like disciplined investments.You’ll hear from Mercedes Chatfield Taylor on the most common paths to the CEO seat and what product leaders need to build that credibility, from board communication to revenue leadership and a more holistic operational view. Mercedes emphasizes succession planning and proactively taking on cross-functional responsibilities as the fastest way to expand scope and readiness.Sean Kim shares what true product empowerment looks like from environments like Amazon and TikTok, where PMs are given a metric to move and expected to negotiate resources, set plans, and own outcomes without being told what to build. Fabrice des Mazery closes by reframing product leadership as investment decision-making, focusing teams and stakeholders on risk, ROI, payback, and treating partners across the business as co-investors with skin in the game.You’ll hear us talk about:The product leader path to CEOMercedes Chatfield Taylor breaks down three common CEO trajectories and what tends to hold product leaders back. The conversation focuses on closing gaps like board-level communication, leading across revenue and finance, and proving you can operate beyond product by taking more off peers’ plates and building succession behind you.What empowerment actually means in practiceSean Kim describes a model where product teams are held accountable to clear business metrics and given autonomy to define the problem set, craft the plan, and execute. He explains how negotiation around headcount, timelines, and trade-offs becomes part of the job, and why learning from bets that do not work is expected rather than punished.Running product like an investment portfolioFabrice des Mazery argues that product leaders should translate work into investment language stakeholders already understand: risk, cost, margin, ROI, and payback. He connects time to money, pushes for proving causation, and outlines portfolio thinking that balances strategic investments, low-risk returns, micro-optimizations, and a small set of higher-uncertainty bets.Turning stakeholders into co-investorsInstead of debating features, Fabrice recommends surfacing risk transparently and asking stakeholders to commit resources and go-to-market support alongside product delivery. The goal is shared accountability, clearer trade-offs, and decision-making that feels like investing together rather than placing orders with a delivery team.Episode resources:Try Granola today: http://granola.ai/productinstituteCheck our courses: https://productinstitute.com/Episode 194: From Product Leader to CEO with Mercedes Chatfield-Taylor:https://www.produxlabs.com/product-thinking-blog/2024/10/23/episode-194-from-product-leader-to-ceo-with-mercedes-chatfield-taylorEpisode 193: Navigating Hyper-Growth with Sean Solme Kim (Former Head of Product at TikTok and Amazon Prime):https://www.produxlabs.com/product-thinking-blog/2024/10/16/episode-193-navigating-hyper-growth-with-sean-solme-kim-former-head-of-product-at-tiktok-and-amazon-primeEpisode 202: Transforming Product Teams into Investment Partners with Fabrice des Mazery:https://www.produxlabs.com/product-thinking-blog/2024/12/18/episode-202-transforming-product-teams-into-investment-partners-with-fabrice-des-mazeryMercedes Chatfield-Taylor on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/mchatfieldtaylor/Sean Solme Kim on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/seankim/Fabrice des Mazery on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/productroi/
• Episode 262: Organizing Product Teams Around Value 11.02.2026 16min

  Creating strong product organizations means aligning teams around outcomes, not outputs, and designing systems that enable learning at speed. In this episode, Melissa Perri brings together insights from multiple product leaders to explore what it takes to anchor on business outcomes, structure teams around value, and build the psychological safety required to learn through experimentation.You’ll hear from Jose Quesada, VP of Product Management for Mobile and Web at American Express, on why timing matters in transformation, how starting with outcomes changes decision making, and how experimentation only works when teams feel safe to fail. Melissa then expands on how organizing teams around value streams rather than architecture creates better incentives and clearer ownership as organizations scale.The episode also features Matthew Skelton, co-author of Team Topologies, who connects product thinking with team design, product operations, and enabling teams. Together, these perspectives highlight how structure, governance, and capability building must evolve together if product organizations want to move faster without sacrificing quality or trust.You’ll hear us talk about:Starting with outcomes instead of solutionsThe discussion explores why leading with vision and desired outcomes creates better alignment than jumping straight to features or roadmaps, and how focusing on what not to do is just as important as deciding what to build.Psychological safety and learning through experimentsJose Quesada explains why teams need permission to run experiments that fail, how mistakes build product intuition, and why softer skills matter more than perfect execution in uncertain environments.Organizing teams around value streamsMelissa Perri breaks down how value streams become the foundation for product team design, covering ownership, reporting lines, and why organizing around architecture often leads to busy work instead of customer impact.Enabling teams and product operations at scaleMatthew Skelton and Melissa discuss how enabling teams, product operations, and Team Topologies help large organizations manage cognitive load, place expertise effectively, and support long-term product strategy.Episode resources:Episode 230: Structuring Product Teams Around Outcomes with Jose Quesada: https://www.produxlabs.com/product-thinking-blog/episode-230-amex-product-outcomes-jose-quesadaEpisode 260: Avoiding Common Mistakes in Org Design: https://www.produxlabs.com/product-thinking-blog/episode-260-org-designEpisode 211: The Power of Team Topologies with Matthew Skelton: https://www.produxlabs.com/product-thinking-blog/episode-211-matthew-skelton-team-topologiesJose Quesada on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/josequesadamedina/Matthew Skelton on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewskelton/Check our courses: https://productinstitute.com/
• Episode 261: AI Implementation in Regulated and High-Trust Industries 28.01.2026 19min

  AI is moving quickly from experimentation into real products, but in regulated and high-trust environments the stakes are much higher. In this compilation episode of the Product Thinking Podcast, host Melissa Perri brings together perspectives from multiple product leaders to explore what it really takes to ship AI responsibly when accuracy, trust, and risk management matter.You will hear from Maryam Ashoori, who works at IBM and was involved in building Watsonx. She explains what AI agents actually are, why large language models hallucinate, and how guardrails and human oversight help teams manage calculated risk as systems become more autonomous.The episode also features Magda Armbruster, Head of Product at Natural Cycles, and Jessica Hall, Chief Product Officer at Just Eat Takeaway. Together they share how embedding regulation, prioritizing data privacy, and being honest about cost, governance, and capability building can turn compliance and trust into enablers rather than blockers for AI-driven products.You’ll hear us talk about:What AI agents can and cannot doMaryam breaks down how agents reason, plan, and take action, and why their probabilistic nature leads to hallucinations. She explains why this behavior is acceptable in low-risk contexts but dangerous in high-stakes domains without proper safeguards.Managing risk with guardrails and humans in the loopThe conversation explores how teams can design agentic guardrails and decision flows that keep AI systems close to verified truth, while escalating sensitive or high-risk situations to humans for review.Embedding regulation and privacy into product developmentMagda shares how Natural Cycles integrates quality assurance, regulatory, and compliance partners directly into day-to-day product work, and why strong privacy practices and user control are core product strategy rather than afterthoughts.The real cost of AI and long-term responsibilityJessica discusses the often underestimated costs of building and running AI systems, from unit economics to team capability, and why product leaders must balance simplicity, governance, bias mitigation, and customer trust instead of chasing hype.Episode resources:Check our courses: https://productinstitute.com/Maryam Ashoori LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mashoori/Magda Armbruster LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/magda-armbruster-326692a/Jessica Hall LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessica-hall-4223b0/Product Thinking Podcast Episode 241: https://www.produxlabs.com/product-thinking-blog/episode-241-ai-strategyProduct Thinking Podcast Episode 251: https://www.produxlabs.com/product-thinking-blog/episode-251-femtech-innovationProduct Thinking Podcast Episode 199: https://www.produxlabs.com/product-thinking-blog/2024/11/27/episode-199-the-true-cost-of-ai-beyond-the-hype-and-into-reality-with-jessica-hall
• Episode 260: Avoiding Common Mistakes in Org Design 10.12.2025 9min

  In this episode of the Product Thinking Podcast, Melissa Perri delves into the intricate world of organizational design for product management teams. She explores how to structure teams effectively around value streams, rather than falling into the trap of organizing by architecture.Melissa emphasizes the critical role of platform teams and the importance of starting with a solid product strategy before diving into organizational design.Melissa sheds light on the necessity for product managers to have a clear roadmap ownership and the challenges of maintaining short layers of control in large organizations to enable quick decision-making. She also discusses the benefits of platform teams in scaling services across an organization, stressing the need for high collaboration and alignment with customer-facing teams.Want to understand how to build a product management organization that maximizes business and customer value? Listen to this insightful episode for practical advice and strategic insights from Melissa Perri.You’ll hear us talk about:01:33 - Organizing Around Value StreamsMelissa discusses the importance of structuring product management teams around value streams, ensuring clear ownership of roadmaps and effective delivery of customer value.02:32 - Avoiding Organizational BottlenecksMelissa explains the drawbacks of having too many layers in decision-making processes within large organizations, advocating for shorter control layers to enhance efficiency and decision speed.06:38 - The Role of Platform TeamsThe episode highlights the strategic importance of platform teams in scaling services organization-wide, emphasizing the need for these teams to align closely with customer-facing value streams.Episode resources:Check our courses: https://productinstitute.com/
• Episode 259: Simplifying AI for Global Customer Impact with Srinivasan Raghavan 03.12.2025 32min

  Srini Raghavan, Chief Product Officer at FreshWorks, joins Melissa Perri to discuss the evolving role of product management in the age of AI. He explores how product managers are transforming into "product builders" with AI as a catalyst for more integrated roles, collapsing traditional processes, and enabling rapid prototyping.Srini dives into the impact of AI on enhancing customer and employee experiences at FreshWorks. He shares insights on how AI agents are handling repetitive tasks, improving satisfaction, and delivering real outcomes through a relentless focus on customer needs.Curious about how AI is reshaping product management and the role of product managers? Tune in to hear Srini's insights on leveraging AI for creating uncomplicated user experiences and driving outcome-focused innovation.You’ll hear us talk about:05:15 - Transforming Product Managers into Product BuildersSrini discusses the shift towards product managers becoming more involved in design and prototyping phases, with AI reducing the need for separate UX and engineering inputs early on.18:45 - Enhancing Experiences with AI AgentsLearn about FreshWorks' approach to using AI agents to handle repetitive tasks and improve user satisfaction, providing a more human-like experience.28:30 - Delivering Uncomplicated User ExperiencesSrini explains the importance of simplicity in product setup and management, aiming to serve a diverse range of customers with straightforward user experiences.Episode resources:Srini on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/srinivasan28/Freshworks website: https://www.freshworks.com/Check our courses: https://productinstitute.com/
• Episode 258: Treating Internal Tools with Equal Rigor 26.11.2025 6min

  In this episode, Melissa Perri dives into the intricacies of product management with a focus on both inbound and outbound product management. Whether you're working on internal tools or customer-facing products, the strategic processes involved are crucial and similar across the board.Melissa discusses the importance of having a strategy, discovery, and delivery process in place to maximize the value stream and mitigate risks, regardless of the product's focus. Melissa provides examples of how internal tools, like algorithms for insurance claims or bank teller systems, can significantly impact customer experience. This episode emphasizes that the core principles of product management remain consistent, whether you're dealing with AI product management or traditional product strategies.Are you a product manager looking to enhance your understanding of both inbound and outbound product management? Tune in to this episode to gain valuable insights into effective product strategies and processes that can be applied to any product type.You’ll hear us talk about:1:37 - Understanding Inbound vs Outbound Product ManagementMelissa explores the differences and similarities between inbound and outbound product management. She emphasizes the necessity for a strategic approach in both areas, debunking the myth that inbound product management carries less risk.4:07 - Impact of Internal Tools on Customer ExperienceDiscussion on how internal tools like bank teller systems and insurance claim algorithms can significantly affect the customer experience. This section highlights the importance of strategic design for internal products.6:10 - Consistency in Product Management PracticesMelissa stresses that the fundamentals of product management, such as strategy and discovery, remain the same regardless of the product type. She highlights the importance of maintaining a focus on discovery and delivery in AI product management.Episode resources:Check our courses: https://productinstitute.com/
• Episode 257: Making Product Launches Work at Scale with Michael Dodsworth 19.11.2025 38min

  In this episode of the Product Thinking Podcast, Melissa Perri is joined by Michael Dodsworth, the founder and CEO of Fanfare. Michael shares his insights on the importance of storytelling in product management and how it can drive product success.He discusses his transition from engineering roles to leading innovative product launches that create immersive experiences and captivate audiences. Through his experiences, Michael emphasizes the significance of aligning strategic goals with customer engagement to elevate product performance.Tune in to explore how Michael's approach to storytelling and strategic alignment can transform your product launches into unforgettable experiences.You'll hear us talk about:07:36 - The Power of Storytelling in Product ManagementMichael Dodsworth explains the essential components of storytelling for product managers. He highlights the importance of simplifying stories to resonate with audiences and making them personal to leave a lasting impression.23:39 - Turning Product Launches into Immersive ExperiencesMelissa and Michael discuss how brands can create engaging and immersive experiences during product launches. Michael shares strategies to avoid negative aspects of product drops and ensure a memorable customer journey.29:28 - Applying Launch Lessons to Software ProductsMelissa asks Michael about translating product launch principles to software companies. Michael emphasizes the necessity of educating customers and having a clear narrative to drive the success of product launches in the tech industry. Episode Resources:Episode resources:Michael on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-dodsworth/Fanfare: https://fanfare.io/Check the localization report: https://lokalise.com/library/data-reports/localization-revenue-report-2025/Check our courses: https://productinstitute.com/
• Episode 256: De-Risking Product Launches Effectively 12.11.2025 8min

  In this episode, Melissa Perri discusses the common dilemma faced by product managers: whether to prioritize large, high-risk features or focus on delivering smaller, incremental updates. She delves into the considerations that should guide this decision, including the value to users, stakeholder goals, and the need for experimentation and risk management. Melissa shares insights on how to approach these decisions strategically to ensure both customer satisfaction and business success.Are you grappling with how to balance big projects against smaller, faster releases in your product strategy? Tune in to this episode to gain valuable insights from Melissa on making the right choices for your product and organization.You’ll hear us talk about:02:29 - The Value of Incremental ReleasesMelissa discusses the benefits of releasing smaller features incrementally, highlighting how they can provide immediate user value and inform future development decisions through feedback.04:13 - Managing Risk in Long-Term ProjectsHere, Melissa emphasizes the importance of de-risking multi-month projects with phased releases and feature flags, ensuring that stakeholders and users are aligned and informed throughout the process.05:01 - Balancing Stakeholder and User NeedsMelissa explores the tension between meeting stakeholder goals and delivering user value, offering strategies for product managers to align these often competing priorities effectively.Episode resources:Check the localization report: https://lokalise.com/library/data-reports/localization-revenue-report-2025/Check our courses: https://productinstitute.com/
• Episode 255: How Shopify Is Leveraging AI at Scale with Vanessa Lee 05.11.2025 46min

  Join us in this episode as Melissa Perri sits down with Vanessa Lee, VP of Product at Shopify, to explore the groundbreaking work being done in AI integration and agentic commerce. Vanessa sheds light on Shopify's AI assistant, Sidekick, which aims to revolutionize how merchants manage and grow their businesses.Discover how Shopify is pushing the boundaries of e-commerce with cutting-edge technology and a commitment to empowering entrepreneurs.Through engaging anecdotes and insights, Vanessa shares how Sidekick is not just a tool but a strategic partner for merchants, helping them navigate the complexities of entrepreneurship. We delve into the collaboration with OpenAI and how Shopify is leveraging AI to create seamless, innovative shopping experiences.Want to understand how AI can transform product management and e-commerce? Tune in to this episode for an enlightening conversation that explores the future of commerce and the evolving role of product managers.You’ll hear us talk about:05:19 - Shopify's Agentic AI AssistantVanessa explains how Sidekick, Shopify's AI assistant, was designed to be a co-pilot for merchants, proactively assisting with tasks like product creation and payment setup to help entrepreneurs succeed in their journey.36:38 - Partnership with OpenAIDiscover how Shopify partnered with OpenAI to integrate commerce functionalities into ChatGPT, making merchants' products discoverable and enabling direct checkouts within the AI platform.22:34 - Practical Advice for PMs Working with AIVanessa offers valuable advice for product managers looking to enhance their skills in generative AI and LLMs, emphasizing the importance of creativity and experimentation in developing innovative AI applications.Episode resources:Vanessa on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vlaurenlee/Check the localization report: https://lokalise.com/library/data-reports/localization-revenue-report-2025/Check our courses: https://productinstitute.com/
• Episode 254: Pushing Back on Unsustainable Workloads 29.10.2025 10min

  Join Melissa Perri in this episode of the Product Thinking Podcast as she tackles the complex issue of managing an overwhelming workload as a product manager. A senior product manager shares their struggle of handling five engineering teams, a task typically assigned to multiple product managers. Melissa offers practical advice on how to communicate with leadership, prioritize effectively, and implement systems to manage scope.If you've ever faced the challenge of balancing broad strategic oversight with detailed management, this episode is a must-listen. Melissa's insights will help you understand how to align your team's work with company goals while maintaining quality and focus.You’ll hear us talk about:03:36 - The Classic Project Management Trade-OffMelissa discusses the well-known project management saying about scope, quality, and speed, explaining how product managers must often choose between these competing priorities.04:44 - Proposing Solutions to Manage WorkloadMelissa provides a framework for presenting options to leadership, including hiring additional product managers and weighing the opportunity costs of current workloads.07:40 - Building Internal Systems for Workload ManagementMelissa advises on creating internal systems to distribute work, allowing development leads to step into prioritization roles, thus enabling a more balanced workload distribution.Tune in to gain actionable strategies and ensure your product management approach aligns with your organization's strategic goals.Episode resources:Check the localization report: https://lokalise.com/library/data-reports/localization-revenue-report-2025/Check our courses: https://productinstitute.com/
• Episode 253: Intelligent Friction in Digital Banking with Tony Brancato 22.10.2025 38min

  Tony Brancato, Chief Product Officer at Charlie Financial, joins Melissa Perri on the Product Thinking Podcast to discuss the unique challenges and opportunities in developing financial products for older Americans. With a focus on security and user-friendliness, Tony shares how Charlie Financial is reimagining banking for the senior demographic, often overlooked by tech innovations.The conversation reveals insights into building trust with users, the role of intelligent friction in product design, and the importance of understanding user needs in product development.Want to know how to create impactful financial products that cater to the senior market? Listen to the full episode with Tony Brancato to discover how empathy, security, and strategic product decisions are shaping the future of digital banking for older adults.You’ll hear us talk about:07:15 - Understanding Different User Needs Across AgesTony explains the distinct differences between 62-year-olds and 75-year-olds when it comes to digital banking needs and preferences, highlighting how product features must be tailored accordingly to meet diverse expectations.12:59 - Designing Intelligent Friction to Prevent FraudDiscover how Charlie Financial's Fraud Shield introduces strategic friction to secure transactions and empower users to prevent fraud, offering peace of mind and control over their financial activities.23:12 - Measuring Success Beyond App UsageTony discusses how Charlie Financial measures success not just by app engagement, but by the financial health and security of its customers, emphasizing the educational aspect of their services to help users recognize and prevent scams.Episode resources:Charlie Financial: https://www.charlie.com/Tony on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tonybrancato/Check our courses: https://productinstitute.com/Check the localization report: https://lokalise.com/library/data-reports/localization-revenue-report-2025/Timestamps:00:00 Tony’s Journey to Charlie Financial07:06 Feature Design and User Research for Seniors12:57 Tackling Fraud With Empathy and Innovation20:50 Accessibility and Simplification Strategies30:18 Surprises, Trust, and Social Media Vulnerabilities34:15 Fraud Trends, AI, and Closing Thoughts
• Episode 252: Understanding Product vs Project Management 15.10.2025 7min

  In this episode, Melissa Perri dives into the often-confused realms of product management and project management. Many people conflate these roles, but they serve distinct purposes and bring different values to an organization. Melissa unpacks the unique responsibilities and skills required for each role and discusses how they can effectively complement each other to drive product success.Whether you're a seasoned product leader or new to the field, this conversation will provide clarity and actionable insights on how to align these functions within your teams.If you're eager to distinguish between product and project management, and to learn how these roles can work in harmony to propel your product initiatives forward, this episode is a must-listen. Tune in to hear Melissa's expert advice and start applying these insights to your own product strategies today.You’ll hear us talk about:01:19 - Differentiating Product and Project ManagementMelissa clarifies the core differences between product and project management, emphasizing the importance of focusing on value creation and timelines.02:43 - The Role of Agile in Product DevelopmentA discussion on how Agile practices have transformed traditional project management roles and why product managers often take on project tasks in smaller teams.04:04 - Leveraging Roles for Product SuccessInsights into how larger organizations can benefit from dedicated project managers and the value they add in coordinating across multiple products and teams.Episode resources:Check out Angel Squad: https://go.angelsquad.co/melissaCheck our courses: https://productinstitute.com/
• Episode 251: From CERN to FemTech Innovation with Magda Armbruster 08.10.2025 37min

  Dr. Magda Armbruster, Head of Product at Natural Cycles, joins Melissa Perri to discuss her unique journey from physics to product management, and how she leverages her scientific background to innovate in women's health technology. As the first FDA-cleared birth control app, Natural Cycles offers a non-hormonal alternative for women and is expanding into new areas such as perimenopause. Dr. Armbruster delves into the challenges and opportunities of integrating user feedback, scientific data, and regulatory compliance in product development. Explore how Natural Cycles maintains user trust through data privacy, and discover the role of AI and wearables in personalizing health experiences. Dr. Armbruster shares her insights on fostering collaboration between product and regulatory teams, balancing innovation with compliance, and the importance of transparency and communication in product management.Want to understand how to successfully develop compliant, user-centered health tech products? Tune in to gain insights from Dr. Armbruster's experience in transforming women's health through product innovation.You’ll hear us talk about:10:45 - Integrating Scientific Rigor in Product DevelopmentDr. Armbruster explains how her background in physics informs her approach to product management at Natural Cycles. She discusses the importance of applying scientific methods to product development, ensuring that products are both innovative and evidence-based.22:15 - Ensuring Data Privacy and User ControlThe conversation turns to data privacy, where Dr. Armbruster highlights how Natural Cycles prioritizes user control over their data. She details the features that allow users to manage their data, reflecting the company's commitment to trust and security.35:00 - Balancing Innovation with Regulatory ComplianceDr. Armbruster shares strategies for maintaining a balance between innovation and compliance. She emphasizes the importance of early collaboration with regulatory teams to ensure that new products meet compliance requirements without stifling creativity and user-centric design.Episode resources:Natural Cycles: https://www.naturalcycles.com/Magda on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/magda-armbruster-326692a/Check our courses: https://productinstitute.com/Timestamps:00:00 From CERN to FemTech06:18 Scientific Thinking in Product Leadership14:03 Education and transparency20:52 Science-Backed Collaboration Across Teams26:54 Regulation as a Framework for Innovation31:46 Future of FemTech and Advice for Product Leaders