This Is The Way: Chinese Philosophy Podcast

Episoade

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  Episode 38: Xunzi on Human Nature and Human Artifice 11.09.2026 1h

  Xunzi is famous for the claim that “human nature is bad.” But what does he mean by this, and if goodness does not come naturally to us, where does it come from? In this episode, we discuss Xunzi’s distinction between nature (xing 性) and deliberate effort (wei 偽), his disagreement with Mencius, and his view that moral goodness must be "learned" and "worked at." We also ask how sharp the distinction between the natural and the artificial really is, and consider Xunzi’s comparison of moral culti...
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  Episode 37: Confucius as Ritual Prodigy 04.08.2026 1h 42min

  In this episode, we are joined by Mark Csikszentmihalyi, Professor of East Asian Languages and Cultures and Eliaser Chair of International Studies at the University of California, Berkeley, and a leading scholar of early Chinese thought. Our conversation draws on his new book, Confucius: A New Tradition (Reaktion Books, 2026), and its striking portrayal of Confucius as a “ritual prodigy.” Through several passages from Book 10 of the Analects, we explore what ritual expertise involves, whether...
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  Episode 36: Zhuangzi's happy fish debate 07.07.2026 1h 13min

  In this episode, we take up one of the most puzzling and fascinating passages in the Zhuangzi: the “Happy Fish” debate between Zhuangzi and Huizi. Can Zhuangzi really know that the fish are happy if he is not a fish? Along the way, we explore skepticism, language, animal minds, and the ordinary but surprisingly sophisticated ways we recognize joy in other living things. Want to skip to the episode's primary philosophical issue? Go to 12:22 Preface to today's topic13:57 The Zhuangzi's happy fi...
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  Episode 35: Confucius on Moral Examples 14.06.2026 1h 4min

  Confucian philosophers often suggest that having good and bad examples plays a critical role in moral education and motivation. How do good examples figure into our ethical education, and how do bad examples help us discover vices or shortcomings in our selves? In this episode, we discuss this wide-ranging issue in connection with the Analects of Confucius, beginning with Confucius's famous remark that he can find a teacher in just about any social setting (even when out walking with at least...
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  Episode 34: Deference and Autonomy in Confucian Ethics 19.05.2026 1h 19min

  Many of us value autonomy in decision-making: we want to make our own choices and think for ourselves. But we also know that in many areas of life, it is well advised to have greater faith in people who know more than we do, in experts such as doctors, scientists, plumbers, chess coaches, teachers, and maybe even philosophers. In this episode of This Is the Way, we explore moral autonomy and moral deference in Confucian philosophy, focusing on Xunzi’s powerful defense of trusting tradition, r...
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  Episode 33: Carrots, Sticks, and Rituals 14.04.2026 1h 34min

  What's the best way to fight corruption: harsh laws and fear of punishment or rituals and moral transformation? In this episode we discuss a deep disagreement that takes its inspiration from the political philosophies of the Confucian philosopher Xunzi and the Legalist philosopher Han Feizi. We are also happily joined by Professor Daniel Bell of the University of Hong Kong, one of the world's leading experts in Chinese political thought. Bell reimagines the views of Xunzi and Han Feizi in his...
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  Episode 32: Music Has in It neither Grief nor Joy 13.03.2026 1h 9min

  When you hear sad music and feel some sadness in response, is that because the music has successfully carried the sadness of the musician to you as the listener? Or is it better to say that the sadness is in you, released by the music but not "carried" by it? In this show (our second with a live audience), we discuss the music theory of the third-century philosopher Ji Kang 嵆康 (223–262 CE), who argued against the "carrier" view of music and for a more complicated and pluralistic account of th...
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  Episode 31: The Great Music Debate -- Mohists vs. Classical Confucians 08.02.2026 1h 13min

  Is music an extravagance in a world of scarcity or a necessary expression of our humanity? We explore Mozi’s consequentialist condemnation of elaborate musical performances and Xunzi’s argument that music, proper guided, plays a critical role in taming unruly emotions and building social bonds. Beneath the disagreement lies a profound clash over basic human goods, how emotion should be shaped, and whether the arts are dispensable or essential to human flourishing. Many thanks to The Hong Kon...
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  Episode 30: Confucianism and Reverential Reading 18.01.2026 1h 26min

  In this episode, we explore Zhu Xi’s striking account of how to read philosophical and other important texts with what he calls “reverential attention.” Blending close reading with reflections on learning, character, and distraction in modern life, we discuss how Zhu Xi tries to make reading simultaneously transformative and objective. The discussion raises a fascinating puzzle at the heart of Zhu’s approach: how can we personalize our reading so that it shapes us, while also preventing our o...
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  Episode 29: Shen Dao on Law 25.12.2025 1h 35min

  Early in Chinese history, a number of political thinkers developed sophisticated arguments for relying on consistent application of laws rather than the personal discretion of political authorities to govern the state. In this episode, we explore the arguments of one of the early pioneers of this way of thinking, Shen Dao 慎到 (c. 350-275 BCE). We are joined by a leading expert on Shen Dao and Chinese Legalism, Eirik Lang Harris. Want to skip to the episode's primary philosophical i...
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  Episode 28: Mencius Against Mohist Impartialism 27.11.2025 1h 26min

  In this episode, we continue our exploration of Mohist impartial caring (jian'ai 兼愛) by examining two of Mencius’s most influential objections: (1) the “Without a Father” Argument (Mencius 3B9) and (2) the “Two Roots” Argument (Mencius 3A5). Along the way, we take up some important questions: Should moral values be impartial even between family members and total strangers? Is radical impartiality incompatible with being human? And should ethics be grounded in rational doctrine or in human nat...
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  Episode 27: Mohism—Two Arguments for Impartial Caring 03.11.2025 1h 2min

  This episode examines the Mohist doctrine of impartial caring (jian'ai) via two arguments in the Mozi -- the Caretaker Argument and the Filial Piety Argument. We examine the arguments' logical structure, psychological plausibility, and practical applicability. We also discuss the importance of reciprocity, and competing interpretations of "impartial caring," from the less demanding don't-harm-anyone interpretation to stronger equal-concern readings, setting them against the Confucian model of...
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  Episode 26: The White Horse Dialogue: Language, Logic, and Categories in Early China 11.10.2025 1h 34min

  According to a speaker in a famous historical dialogue, "A white horse is not a horse." In this episode, we’re joined by Dr. Lisa Indraccolo (Associate Professor, Tallinn University) to unpack one of the most intriguing discourses in early Chinese philosophy—the White Horse Dialogue from the Gongsun Longzi. Together, we explore what this paradoxical statement reveals about language, logic, and categorization in early China, from the connection between words and reality to the ways that set th...
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  Episode 25: Daoist Utopia 18.09.2025 1h 16min

  In this episode, we delve into Chapter 80 of the Daodejing, one of the most vivid portraits of Daoist social ideals. We unpack its vision of a “simple agrarian utopia,” where people live in small communities, ignore labor-saving tools, and resist the endless chase for more. Along the way, we discuss political minimalism, technological restraint, contentment in daily life, and radical localism, asking what it would mean to be satisfied even while knowing other or "better" possibilities exist. ...
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  Episode 24: Robber Zhi—Honor Among Thieves? 28.08.2025 1h 16min

  With a big assist from our guest, Stephen C. Walker, we discuss a highly unusual philosophical dialogue in classical Chinese literature, the "Robber Zhi Dialogue" (from the Miscellaneous Chapters of the Zhuangzi). This shocking story shows Confucius attempting to convince the story's anti-hero (Robber Zhi) to give up his vicious ways. By the end of the story, Confucius emerges as the more naive and inauthentic of the two characters, and moral exemplars in general are called into question. Are...
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  Episode 23: Confucianism on the Assessment of Character 07.08.2025 1h 6min

  In this episode, Justin and Richard discuss how historical Confucian philosophers have proposed to recognize people of good moral character (virtue). How, exactly, did they think that we could tell the real virtues apart from the phony ones? And what did the historical Confucians think about the use of written examination essays to "test" for virtue? Many thanks to The Hong Kong Ethics Lab for sponsoring this podcast series. Want to continue the discussion? Need links to some of the so...
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  Episode 22: The Good Life in the Analects 18.07.2025 58min

  What sort of vision of the good life does Confucius recommend? In this episode, we explore one of the most intriguing passages in the Analects (11.26), where Confucius asks four disciples about their deepest aspirations. Three students offer increasingly modest political goals—from Zilu's grand vision of governing a besieged state to Zihua's humble wish to serve as a minor functionary in ritual ceremonies. But a fourth student, the musical Zengxi, describes something completely different: a s...
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  Episode 21: Xunzi’s Way—Discovered or Invented? 27.06.2025 1h 12min

  This episode is our first on the classical Confucian philosopher Xunzi 荀子 (3rd century BCE), who was famous for arguing that human nature is bad and for casting doubt on the more supernatural or superstitious justifications for traditional Confucian rituals, among many other things. Since this is the first episode on an important philosopher, we spend some time in part I discussing his "big picture" philosophical worldview. In part II, we turn to the following question: does Xunzi think of th...
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  Episode 20: Confucianism vs. Buddhism (first "live show") 05.06.2025 1h 30min

  One influential justification for becoming Buddhist is to end suffering, starting (it seems) with the Buddhist practitioner's own suffering. Does this indicate that Buddhist practitioners are selfish? After Buddhism became popular in China, many Confucians argued that Buddhism puts personal salvation before ethics, and is thus selfish in that respect. Some Confucians also objected to the particular sort of compassion that Buddhists were supposed to adopt ("unconditioned compassion"), insistin...
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  Episode 19: Zhu Xi on the Unity of the Virtues 06.04.2025 1h 26min

  Today's topic is really about two things. First, it's about the claim that many instantiations of one virtue necessarily come packaged with other virtues. For example, you can't have great humaneness or benevolence in your charitable giving to other people unless you also show a certain amount of ritual respect to them. Second, it's about the view that one virtue in particular -- the virtue of humaneness or good caring (ren 仁) -- is more central or fundamental than the others. The Neo-C...