Face-Off: The U.S. vs China

Episoade

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  Introducing Foreign Policy's The Hidden Economics of Remarkable Women 26.05.2026 27min

  We’re hard at work on Season 4 of Face-Off. And we have some great episodes in the works, but while we’re in production I wanted to share an episode from a different podcast that I thought you might enjoy…. When people discuss environmental solutions, they often mention its impact on our lives. This can include ensuring parts of the planet remain inhabitable in the face of extreme temperatures, maintaining biodiversity, and preventing the oxidation of our oceans. But there’s another case to be made: Investing in our planet makes sense economically.  Conservation can deliver high returns on investment. According to the ⁠International Monetary Fund⁠, every dollar spent on conservation and other green projects may yield up to seven dollars within five years. This is because of jobs created, food systems improved, and a reduction in greenhouse gases, among other outcomes.  On this episode of The Hidden Economics of Remarkable Women, we speak with Jody Allen, a philanthropist, businesswoman, and conservationist. She cares deeply about protecting wildlife and our planet. Allen is also the owner of the Seattle Seahawks. Host Zainab Salbi, who co-founded Daughters for Earth with Allen, talks with Allen about the interplay between philanthropy and conservation.  We also speak with two African wildlife conservations: Dr. Shivani Bhalla, founder of ⁠Ewaso Lions⁠ in Kenya, and Dr. Moreangels Mbizah, founder of ⁠Wildlife Conservation Action⁠ in Zimbabwe. They share what community-led conservation strategies look like and what they have seen work best to decrease human-wildlife conflict.  The Hidden Economics of Remarkable Women is a podcast from Foreign Policy, supported this season by Daughters for Earth. Guests Interviewed: Jody Allen, Founder of Daughters for Earth Dr. Shivani Bhalla, Founder of ⁠Ewaso Lions⁠ Dr. Moreangels Mbizah, Founder of ⁠Wildlife Conservation Action Follow and listen to more episodes of The Hidden Economics of Remarkable Women: https://play.megaphone.fm/jzrwm69essm3zpacrrjmua Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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  Trump’s War, Xi’s Opportunity: Ambassador Nicholas Burns on Iran’s Hot War 21.04.2026 38min

  As this episode is published - on April 21, 2026 -  it’s far from clear which direction the war between the US and Iran is headed. Even so, America’s reputation around the world is in decline, to say the least. Trump is unrestrained.  He’s invaded Venezuela. Started a war like no other with Iran. Soured relations with traditional US allies in Europe. And not to mention the heavy tariffs he’s imposed across the globe.  Trump and Xi Jinping are supposed to meet in a delayed summit in Beijing this spring. What is Beijing thinking? How might China capitalize on this very rocky moment? With so much at stake, we turn to someone who has often been at the forefront of diplomacy: Nicholas Burns, the former US Ambassador to China under President Biden. Our conversation was recorded on April 10th, which is important to note as the news is moving fast, very fast.  ***PLEASE TAKE OUR AUDIENCE SURVEY*** It only takes a minute and will help guide the future of Face-Off: https://bit.ly/faceoffsurvey Face-Off: The U.S. vs. China is produced in partnership with ⁠Rowhome Productions⁠. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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  Climbing the Great Firewall: Freedom, Censorship, and China’s Internet 07.04.2026 44min

  In this episode, we take you inside the Chinese internet.  China is currently home to the world's most sophisticated, far-reaching internet censorship regime. Chinese censors are trained to comb the web for off-limits words and phrases. Offending posts often disappear into thin air. And entire US-based platforms like Google, Youtube, Instagram, and Amazon, not to mention the New York Times are all banned. But it’s one thing to talk about the regime and another to live under it. That’s the subject of a great new book, The Wall Dancers: Searching for Freedom and Connection on the Chinese Internet by Yi-Ling Liu.  Yi-Ling is an American reporter based in Hong Kong.  So today on Face-Off, we hand over the mic to our Associate Producer Frank Zhou for a fascinating conversation with Yi-Ling Liu.  Guest: Yi-Ling Liu, Writer & Editor covering AI and Chinese society Further Reading: The Wall Dancers: Searching for Freedom and Connection on the Chinese Internet  https://www.yi-lingliu.com/the-wall-dancers ***PLEASE TAKE OUR AUDIENCE SURVEY*** It only takes a minute and will help guide the future of Face-Off: https://bit.ly/faceoffsurvey Face-Off: The U.S. vs. China is produced in partnership with ⁠Rowhome Productions⁠. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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  How Far Will China Go for Iran? 24.03.2026 31min

  This week: China and Iran.  The two countries have close ties and, yet, while China initially condemned the US-Israeli war on Iran, the Chinese government has stayed mostly quiet even as the bombing continues.  Meanwhile the Iranian government is doubling down on this friendship. As of this taping,  Iran has opened up the Strait of Hormuz to Chinese ships. To learn more about what this all means, Jane interviews Yun Sun, a Senior Fellow at the Stimson Center in Washington where she focuses on China’s relations with other authoritarian regimes. In her most recent article in Foreign Affairs - entitled “Why China Won’t Help Iran” - she points out that China is Iran’s most important partner in the Middle East. But she questions, how important is Iran to China?  Guest: Yun Sun, Senior Fellow & Director of the China Program, Stimson Center  Further Reading: Why China Won’t Help Iran by Yun Sun, Foreign Affairs: https://www.foreignaffairs.com/china/why-china-wont-help-iran ***PLEASE TAKE OUR AUDIENCE SURVEY*** It only takes a minute and will help guide the future of Face-Off: https://bit.ly/faceoffsurvey Face-Off: The U.S. vs. China is produced in partnership with ⁠Rowhome Productions⁠. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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  Stolen in China, Raised in Texas: Twins Caught Between Two Superpowers 17.03.2026 48min

  In this episode, Journalist Barbara Demick talks with Jane about her latest book Daughters of the Bamboo Grove. It’s the story of Chinese twins separated as toddlers. One twin grows up with her family in rural China. The other twin is adopted by an American family in Texas. It’s a haunting, moving narrative about the harsh repercussions of the One-Child policy, and the realities of life in rural China and rural America. Barbara and Jane know each other from their time together as reporters in China. They both lived in Beijing - Barbara the bureau chief for the Los Angeles Times, Jane the bureau chief of the New York Times. Jane thought of her as one of the bravest reporters - always fearless and open to getting the stories of real people.  Daughters of the Bamboo Grove is another example of her excellent reporting and her unique ability to shine a light on the lives of ordinary people. Guest: Barbara Demick, author & journalist, former bureau chief in Beijing for the Los Angeles Times  Book Recommendations: Daughter’s of the Bamboo Grove by Barbara Demick *Also, we want to hear from you! We have a listener survey that takes less than a minute and we would love to hear your thoughts. Fill out the survey here: https://bit.ly/faceoffsurvey Face-Off: The U.S. vs. China is produced in partnership with ⁠Rowhome Productions⁠. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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  The Black Box: Inside China’s Military Mind 03.03.2026 25min

  We’re back! We’ll be publishing five brand new episodes of Face-Off bi-weekly starting today. In this episode, we welcome back Zhou Bo, a retired colonel in the People’s Liberation Army.  Xi Jinping has unleashed a massive purge of the Chinese army, the biggest since the early days of Communist China. Nearly three dozen senior generals have been demoted or disappeared. Almost all have been accused of corruption. Then this past January the most senior general, General Zhang Youxia, essentially Xi Jinping's number two in the army, disappeared.  No-one outside of China, and not many inside China, seem to know what’s going on. There's a reason the Chinese military is known as a black box.  With Colonel Zhou, Jane discusses everything from Greenland to Taiwan to China’s military strength in the South China Sea.  Guest: Zhou Bo, Retired Senior Colonel in the People’s Liberation Army Book Recommendations: Should The World Fear China by Zhou Bo China’s Quest for Military Supremacy by Joel Wuthnow and Phillip Saunders Face-Off: The U.S. vs. China is produced in partnership with ⁠Rowhome Productions⁠. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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  The Chip Whisperer 20.01.2026 53min

  Jensen Huang built the company that powers the AI revolution—and he's playing both Washington and Beijing. The Taiwan-born Nvidia CEO holds the keys to artificial intelligence. But whose side is he really on? Inside the rise of tech's most important power broker. Guest: Tripp Mickle  New York Times Tech Reporter Book Recommendations  The Thinking Machine: Jensen Huang, Nvidia and the World’s Most Coveted Microchip by Stephen Witt.  After Steve by Tripp Mickle  Face-Off: The U.S. vs. China is produced in partnership with ⁠Rowhome Productions⁠. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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  The Charm Offensive That Isn't 13.01.2026 49min

  As Trump trashes American soft power, can China fill the void? A top Chinese academic explains why Beijing struggles to win hearts and minds and why being feared isn't the same as being loved. Plus: How American influencers are going viral in China. Guest:  Da Wei, Professor, Tsinghua University Book Recommendations  Sparks: China’s Underground Historians and their Battle for the Future by Ian Johnson Other Rivers: A Chinese Education by Peter Hessler Face-Off: The U.S. vs. China is produced in partnership with ⁠Rowhome Productions⁠. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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  Clash on the High Seas 06.01.2026 43min

  High-seas drama as Chinese warships hunt Filipino fishing boats in their own waters. Beijing is testing America's oldest Pacific ally with dangerous games of maritime chicken. With Philippine politics in flux, can Manila hold the line or will China fracture another US alliance? Guest: Marites Vitug, Filipino Journalist & Author, editor-at-large for Rappler and chair of the Journalism for Nation Building Foundation Reading Recommendations  Rock Solid: How the Philippines Won Its Maritime Case Against China by Marites Vitug The U.S. and China Are One Misstep Away From War by Chris Rosenbach and Chris LiFace-Off: The U.S. vs. China is produced in partnership with ⁠Rowhome Productions⁠. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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  The Rugby Gambit 16.12.2025 32min

  The strangest geopolitical deal you've never heard of: Australia trades rugby league spots for an agreement not to make an agreement with China. Papua New Guinea's players get to compete Down Under and in return, China gets locked out of a strategic Pacific island. Sports diplomacy at its most serious. Guest: Oliver Nobetau, Papua New Guinea Government Lawyer & Fellow at the Lowy Institute Book Recommendations Lost In Shangri-La: A True Story of Survival, Adventure and the Most Incredible Rescue Mission of World War 2 by Mitchell Zuckoff If you are looking for other interesting books about China, do check out the China Books Review section of the Asia Society webpage at https://chinabooksreview.com/ Face-Off: The U.S. vs. China is produced in partnership with ⁠Rowhome Productions⁠. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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  Rise of the Robots 09.12.2025 35min

  "If I was the U.S., I would be terrified." We report from a 1,500+ robot convention in Beijing, and an American robotics expert who's toured China's factories reveals how China is winning the robot race. From assembly lines to hospital wards, humanoid robots are everywhere—and America is falling behind. Guest: Alberto Moel, Robotics Scientist, Professor of Practice in Finance at the University of Hong Kong Book Recommendations: I, Robot by Isaac Asimov The Fourth Age by Byron Reese Face-Off: The U.S. vs. China is produced in partnership with ⁠Rowhome Productions⁠. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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  The Xi Factor 02.12.2025 54min

  Jake Sullivan has sat across from Xi Jinping more times than almost any American official—from Xi's rise in 2013 to their last face-off in Beijing. What's it like negotiating with the world's most powerful dictator? Sullivan reveals Xi's ego, tactics, and how a relationship that started with cautious optimism turned into open hostility. Guest: Jake Sullivan, Former U.S. National Security Adviser for President Biden and the host of The Long Game, a new podcast from Vox Media. Book Recommendations: The Party’s Interests Come First: The Life of Xi Zhongxun, Father of Xi Jinping by Joseph Torigian.  Apple in China by Patrick McGee.  Face-Off: The U.S. vs. China is produced in partnership with ⁠Rowhome Productions⁠. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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  China's Arms Race 25.11.2025 52min

  China is outbuilding America's navy and beating us in hypersonic missiles. Xi has purged corrupt generals to create a military machine loyal only to him. Can China's forces actually win a war? We break down the PLA's transformation from paper tiger to potential superpower. Guest: Zhou Bo, Retired Senior Colonel in the People’s Liberation Army (https://ciss.tsinghua.edu.cn/info/CFExperts/1212) Book Recommendations: Should The World Fear China by Zhou Bo China’s Quest for Military Supremacy by Joel Wuthnow and Phillip Saunders Face-Off: The U.S. vs. China is produced in partnership with Rowhome Productions. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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  Generation Burnout 18.11.2025 59min

  China's youth were supposed to lead the nation to glory. Instead, they're lying flat, embracing "garbage time," and quietly rebelling against a system that promised everything and delivered economic stagnation. In this episode of Face-Off - our first of Season 3 (!) - we get inside the psychology of China's disillusioned generation. Guest: Chang Che, Chinese-American Writer (https://changnche.com/)  Book Recommendations:  Sparks: China’s Underground Historians and their Battle for the Future by Ian Johnson Other Rivers: A Chinese Education by Peter Hessler Face-Off: The U.S. vs. China is produced in partnership with Rowhome Productions. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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  Season 3 Trailer 04.11.2025 3min

  In our third season of Face-Off: The US vs China, we’ll explore some of the biggest issues dividing these global powers today: Trump and Xi Jinping, AI, China’s growing military might, and also… robots. Season 3 of Face-Off: US vs China begins Tuesday, November 18th. Join us. Face-Off is produced in partnership with Rowhome Productions. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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  THE GREATER WAGER EPISODE 5: The Break-Up 28.10.2025 18min

  THE GREAT WAGER Episode 5. The break-up: Richard Nixon’s great wager reverberates from the '70s to today While we’re preparing season 3 of Face Off, we’re excited to present an encore presentation of The Great Wager, a five-part series about Richard Nixon’s top-secret plan to go to China, befriend China, and change the balance of power in the Cold War. This is the series finale: Episode 5. All of a sudden, it’s less clear if Nixon’s wager is paying off. After years of collaboration and mutual economic benefit, relations between China and the U.S. are at a low point. What does the start of this important relationship reveal about its next chapter? The Great Wager was produced in 2022 with Here & Now and WBUR Podcasts. This special presentation of The Great Wager is produced in partnership with Rowhome Productions. Rowhome’s Creative Director is Alex Lewis. John Myers is Rowhome’s Executive Producer. Face Off is a proud member of the Airwave podcast network. Book Recommendations: Nixon and Mao: The Week that Changed the World by Margaret MacMillan. An insider look at how Nixon and Kissinger operated in Beijing. Assignment China: An Oral History of American Journalists in the People's Republic by Mike Chinoy. Chapter 4: How American reporters, who knew little about China, covered the presidential trip Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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  THE GREAT WAGER EPISODE 4: Shared Secrets 21.10.2025 16min

  THE GREAT WAGER Episode 4. Shared secrets: How The U.S. and China worked together to spy on the Soviet Union While we’re preparing season 3 of Face Off, we’re excited to present an encore presentation of The Great Wager, a five-part series about Richard Nixon’s top-secret plan to go to China, befriend China, and change the balance of power in the Cold War. This is Episode 4. The relationship between China and the U.S. is off and running — and now the two countries are collaborating on secret, sensitive intelligence. This installment of The Great Wager includes exclusive information about how Chinese and American intelligence officials agreed to work together against their common rival of many years. The Great Wager was produced in 2022 with Here & Now and WBUR Podcasts. This special presentation of The Great Wager is produced in partnership with Rowhome Productions. Rowhome’s Creative Director is Alex Lewis. John Myers is Rowhome’s Executive Producer. Face Off is a proud member of the Airwave podcast network. Book Recommendations: Nixon and Mao: The Week that Changed the World by Margaret MacMillan. An insider look at how Nixon and Kissinger operated in Beijing. Assignment China: An Oral History of American Journalists in the People's Republic by Mike Chinoy. Chapter 4: How American reporters, who knew little about China, covered the presidential trip Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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  THE GREAT WAGER EPISODE 3: When Nixon Met Mao 14.10.2025 17min

  THE GREAT WAGER Episode 3. Grip and grin: When Nixon met Mao While we’re preparing season 3 of Face Off, we’re excited to present an encore presentation of The Great Wager, a five-part series about Richard Nixon’s top-secret plan to go to China, befriend China, and change the balance of power in the Cold War. This is Episode 3. The news of Nixon’s trip to China is public, and he’s getting credit for pulling off such a historic event. Now, he and his advisers have to work with the Chinese to forge a relationship between two very different countries. The Great Wager was produced in 2022 with Here & Now and WBUR Podcasts. This special presentation of The Great Wager is produced in partnership with Rowhome Productions. Rowhome’s Creative Director is Alex Lewis. John Myers is Rowhome’s Executive Producer. Face Off is a proud member of the Airwave podcast network. Book Recommendations: Nixon and Mao: The Week that Changed the World by Margaret MacMillan. An insider look at how Nixon and Kissinger operated in Beijing. Assignment China: An Oral History of American Journalists in the People's Republic by Mike Chinoy. Chapter 4: How American reporters, who knew little about China, covered the presidential trip Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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  THE GREAT WAGER EPISODE 2: Plots & Private Planes 07.10.2025 17min

  THE GREAT WAGER Episode 2: Plots and private planes: How Henry Kissinger pulled off a secret trip to China While we’re preparing season 3 of Face Off, we’re excited to present an encore presentation of The Great Wager, a five-part series about Richard Nixon’s top-secret plan to go to China, befriend China, and change the balance of power in the Cold War. This is Episode 2. Nixon and his national security adviser Henry Kissinger make contact with China. But in the midst of the Cold War, they don’t want anyone to know. How will Kissinger get to Beijing without alerting anyone — and what’s Frank Sinatra got to do with it? The Great Wager was produced in 2022 with Here & Now and WBUR Podcasts. This special presentation of The Great Wager is produced in partnership with Rowhome Productions. Rowhome’s Creative Director is Alex Lewis. John Myers is Rowhome’s Executive Producer. Face Off is a proud member of the Airwave podcast network. Book Recommendations: Nixon and Mao: The Week that Changed the World by Margaret MacMillan. An insider look at how Nixon and Kissinger operated in Beijing. Assignment China: An Oral History of American Journalists in the People's Republic by Mike Chinoy. Chapter 4: How American reporters, who knew little about China, covered the presidential trip Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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  THE GREAT WAGER EPISODE 1: Richard Nixon's "Crazy" Idea 01.10.2025 15min

  THE GREAT WAGER EPISODE 1: Richard Nixon's 'crazy' idea: Make befriending the Chinese Communist Party his legacy With money, power and political standing at stake, America’s relationship with China is tenuous. But it wasn’t always that way. The Great Wager is a five-part series that tells the story of the extraordinary encounter between Richard Nixon and Mao Zedong in 1972 that brought these two countries together, the secret collaborations born from that meeting — and the reverberations we’re still feeling today. We’re thrilled to be re-airing this series, while we’re busily preparing season 3 of Face Off behind the scenes.  This is episode 1. President Richard Nixon has a plan: He wants to go to China. The only problem? The U.S. and China have had zero contact since the Communist Party took over China more than two decades before. The Great Wager host Jane Perlez digs into the beginning of Nixon’s improbable diplomatic mission. The Great Wager was produced in 2022 with Here & Now and WBUR Podcasts. This special presentation of The Great Wager is produced in partnership with  Rowhome Productions. Rowhome’s Creative Director is Alex Lewis. John Myers is Rowhome’s Executive Producer. Face Off is a proud member of the Airwave podcast network. Book Recommendations: Nixon and Mao: The Week that Changed the World by Margaret MacMillan. An insider look at how Nixon and Kissinger operated in Beijing.  Assignment China: An Oral History of American Journalists in the People's Republic by Mike Chinoy. Chapter 4: How American reporters, who knew little about China, covered the presidential trip Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices