Growing Older with Gusto

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  Humor Helps! Finding Joy In Aging With Diane Dean-Epps 25.09.2026 16นาที

  Growing older comes with endless physical and lifestyle changes, but navigating aging with humor can make every step of the journey far more enjoyable. Self-described sit-down, stand-up humorist Diane Dean-Epps joins this episode to discuss how laughter serves as an essential coping mechanism through life's unexpected twists and turns. As the author of Bangs 'N' Botox: My Aging Journey Into, Through, and Beyond Denial, Fillers & Human Preservatives and host of the BANGS ‘N’ BOTOX™: Women Who Wear Aging Well show, Diane shares her personal lightbulb moments—from doctor visits to total hip replacements. In this episode, explore how changing your perspective, staying active, and embracing life’s absurdities can help you grow older with gusto.
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  The Power Of Laughter For Positive Aging with Sky Bergman 08.08.2026 18นาที

  Host Gail Zugerman welcomes return guest Sky Bergman, an award winning film Documentarian, to discuss her latest project about finding humor as we grow older. Bergman shares the backstory behind "The Jollytologist", a documentary centered on Allen Klein and the healing power of laughter. She explains how simple attitude shifts and everyday curiosity pull anyone out of a rut. Bergman also talks about her path from Professor Emeritus of Photography and Video at Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo to full-time filmmaker. Listeners gain tactical insights on staying connected, pursuing new passions, and finding joy in life's smallest moments. She also previews her other recent projects, including "Lives Well Lived" and "Mochi".
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  How To Unretire And Build A Fulfilling Second Act with George Jerjian 01.08.2026 31นาที

  Navigating life after work requires more than financial planning when your sense of self vanishes overnight. Retirement mindset mentor George Jerjian joins host Gail Zugerman to explain how individuals can successfully transition into their next stage of life using DARE Method Retirement strategies. By focusing on four key phases—discover, assimilate, rewire, and expand—you can shed your old professional identity and reconnect with your authentic self. George shares practical insights on taking a purposeful gap year and reprogramming your mindset for active growth. You'll learn why traditional retirement is an artificial concept and how staying engaged protects your long-term vitality. Discover how to create a meaningful second act and avoid falling into post-career stagnation.
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  Redefining Retirement: Finding Purpose After Your Career with George Jerjian 22.07.2026 28นาที

  George Jerjian shares his personal journey from a terminal medical diagnosis to building a life centered on purpose. He introduces the Identity Renaissance, a concept he developed after surveying thousands of retirees to understand their biggest obstacles. He discusses how to avoid drifting into oblivion by shifting from a fixed to a growth mindset. George explains why your identity is often the first casualty in retirement and how to reclaim it. This episode offers a practical look at making the most of your time while you still have it.
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  How to Successfully Plan for Safe Aging in Place with Mike Carter 20.07.2026 17นาที

  Host Gail Zugerman talks with guest Mike Carter, the compassionate founder of Coast Family Home Care, about the essential strategies for Aging In Place. Mike Carter started his home health care business after watching his father pass away from pancreatic cancer back in the 1980s when there was no home help available. Now, his company is dedicated to helping people age with dignity and grow older in the habitat of their choice on the Central Coast of California. In this conversation, we explore practical home modifications, the truths about long-term care insurance, and how to spot critical red flags in aging parents. You'll discover how simple modifications can keep you independent, safe, and thriving in your own space. Don't wait for a crisis to make your home a safe haven for your next chapter.
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  Saving Dogs Through Flight 30.06.2026 28นาที

  Gail Zugerman talked with Dr. Peter Rork, a retired orthopedic surgeon who took his passions of saving animals and flying to create Dog Is My CoPilot in 2012, a not-for-profit dedicated to saving dogs and cats from overcrowded shelters to their forever homes across the country. He explains how he has grown the organization from flying 20 animals at a time in a small plane to operating three Caravan aircraft that now transport60-150 animals monthly. Peter also discusses his relationship with Petco Love Foundation and its three key principles of Dog Is My CoPilot that prioritize animals’ wellbeing.
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  How To Get Unstuck In Life With Russell Anderson 13.05.2026 22นาที

  Many of us reach a point where we feel stuck—whether it's debating where to go after retirement or just feeling directionless in our current professional or personal roles. Our guest, Russell Anderson, knows this feeling well. After years of creating wealth strategies as a financial planner in Southern Florida, his life was unexpectedly interrupted by a moment of physical stiffness that sparked a "momentous revolution" in his personal and professional worlds. Discover how Russell went from being fearful of change and feeling his life was "over" to embracing new chapters—including writing a book and redefining his career to prioritize meaningfulness. Learn his secret sauce for moving past fear, making powerful choices, and finally getting unstuck.
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  Falling Into A New Way of Thinking With Dan Metcalfe 08.04.2026 39นาที

  Falling is the #1 cause of fatal injury for people over 65—but what if everything you've been told about balance and aging is wrong? It's a terrifying reality for the aging community: you are told falling is "just part of getting older". But according to Dan Metcalfe, Founder of Total Balance Mobility, decline is not inevitable. In this groundbreaking discussion, Metcalfe challenges conventional wisdom (like just strengthening legs and core) and introduces a revolutionary approach focused on the brain-body connection and neuron memory. Discover how he helped people like Bob Eubanks go from shuffling in fear to running six miles an hour on a treadmill in just three weeks. Stop fearing the next step and start falling into a new way of thinking about balance, movement, and a longer, better life.
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  How To Recover From Catastrophic Injuries With Dan Metcalfe 04.03.2026 27นาที

  How should you use your time wisely to recover from catastrophic injuries and regain your energy? Dan Metcalfe, the SuperHuman Man, returns to talk about the most valuable thing in your life and how to put it to good use to achieve your highest performance. He joins Gail Zugerman to share how a committed mindset is a key component in healing the body from injuries, inflammation, and all kinds of illnesses. He also answers questions from the listeners, from the optimal way to drink coffee without becoming dehydrated to the right way to meditate every single day.
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  Seven Pillars Of Natural Health With Dan Metcalfe 07.01.2026 26นาที

  Do you want to get stuck in your bed when you get older, or do you want to spend your later years with a sound mind and body? Gail Zugerman sits down with Dan Metcalfe, an internationally acclaimed performance coach and the brilliant mind behind the revolutionary Total Balance Mobility. Together, they break down the seven pillars of natural health, a neuroscience-based approach to achieving brain and body transformation. From relaxing yourself through deep breathing to setting a strong mindset to shatter limiting beliefs, discover what it takes to achieve a quality lifestyle and feel younger all over again.
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  Grow Older Not Old By Being A Super Ager! With Larry Wolf & David Cravit 08.12.2025 28นาที

  If you want to spend your senior years with meaning and purpose, every single aspect of your life must be nourished and cared for. From your physical needs to your mental state, you must ensure that everything receives the attention it truly needs. Gail Zugerman chats with Larry Wolf and David Cravit, who talk about the seven pillars of the SuperAging lifestyle. Together, they discuss how to nurture yourself and your relationships to grow old without actually getting old. Larry and David also explain how to exercise your brain regularly with daily puzzles and why older people must stay vigilant for online scams.
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  Awaken Your Potential Through Creative Aging With Vincent Tilford 03.12.2025 24นาที

  Aging is inevitable, but it does not mean your later years should be miserable and depressing. Vincent Tilford, CEO of The Hannan Center in Detroit, is helping older adults awaken their fullest human potential by teaching them the way of creative aging. He joins Gail Zugerman to share how he is looking to support and renovate care for the elderly through their programs focused on art, lifelong learning, and self-development. Vincent also talks about how American psychiatrist Dr. Gene Cohen inspired his career and how they are battling government cutbacks at The Hannan Center.
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  Breaking Down The Lagom MethodTM With Dr. Jessica Lederhausen 26.11.2025 30นาที

  The mouth is the gateway to our body, and it tells the truth about how we are aging. Dr. Jessica Lederhausen presents a uniquely Swedish way to take care of your body starting in your mouth called the Lagom MethodTM.  Together with Gail Zugerman, she explains how staying healthy is not about doing too much or too little – sometimes, doing just the right amount of tiny good habits every single day is enough. Dr. Jessica also breaks down the four pillars of good health and how paying attention to them can help you grow old with gusto.
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  All Remaining Passengers: An Octogenarian’s Take On Legacy With Philip Slayton 01.09.2025 21นาที

  Essays From The Edge Of EightyWhat does it mean to be an octogenarian navigating the edge of eight with curiosity, humor, and depth? Philip Slayton—law professor, lawyer, author, and past PEN Canada president—joins the conversation to reflect on his acclaimed book All Remaining Passengers and the unique challenges and rewards of growing older. From embracing reinvention and honoring personal history to staying creative and deeply connected, Philip shares the emotional and philosophical balance of living meaningfully in your later years. This candid and uplifting dialogue reminds us that aging, while complex, can also be a time of extraordinary perspective, purpose, and discovery.
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  Debuting With A Mystery Novel With Bonnie Moore 31.08.2025 16นาที

  Sitting down with Gail Zugerman is Bonnie Moore, who talks about her debut book, Buried Bones. She shares how she used her background as an attorney and CPA to write a mystery novel about a crime committed in a small town. Bonnie also talks about using fictional detective Jessica Fletcher from “Murder, She Wrote” to create her protagonist, as well as how her novel is geared towards people aging well and super sleuths.
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  Level Up Your Trips With Historic Traveler Jackie Lapin 24.08.2025 21นาที

  Aside from preparing your bags and pockets for your next holiday, you can also make your experience extra special by reading all about your destination ahead of your trip. Jackie Lapin can help you with this through her blog, The Historic Traveler. She joins Gail Zugerman to discuss how she marries her love for books and history to provide in-depth articles about today’s hottest and trendiest travel destinations. Jackie also shares how she utilizes her journalism background, photography skills, and first-hand travel experiences to craft well-written blogs every traveler and history buff will find enlightening.
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  What's Next? With Caroline Brecker And Polly Chandler 28.05.2025 23นาที

     Are you approaching the end of your primary career and wondering what comes next? It’s a common dilemma, but what if there’s a way to embrace this new chapter with purpose and excitement? In today’s episode, we’re joined by two incredible guests who’ve navigated this transition with success. Caroline Brecker, co-founder of Third Half Advisors, and Polly Chandler, a strength coach at the company, share their inspiring stories of how they reinvented themselves after leaving long careers to help others do the same. Caroline, with her extensive finance background, and Polly, a seasoned coach and facilitator, offer unique insights into how we can create the next phase of our lives with intention. Whether it’s finding a new purpose through coaching, consulting, or simply embracing a new path, you won’t want to miss this conversation about reimagining the rest of your life. Tune in to discover how to take that next step and thrive in your “third half!” — Watch the episode here Listen to the podcast here     What's Next? With Caroline Brecker And Polly Chandler How To Rewire Yourself How many of us have reached a point in our lives where our primary careers are coming to a close and we're trying to figure out what to do with the rest of our life? We have two guests, a bit of a switch who made the transition and started another great phase of their lives. Caroline Brecker is the Cofounder of Third Half Advisors. Her background includes many years in finance with Stints at JP Morgan Private Bank where she oversaw $40 billion. Polly Chandler is a strength coach at Third Hald Advisors. Her background as a seasoned coach, curriculum designer and facilitator who played a key role in launching one of the first NBA's sustainability in the country led to her involvement with Third Half Advisors. Welcome to the show. Thank you, Gail. Thank you. Many of us reach this point in our lives where we’re in endpoint with our career and so many people I've talked to the years, flounder because you've been successful, enjoyed a career but you want to do something else and don't know what it is and what to do. Tell our readers, if you will Caroline. Where were you in your life when you decided to retire from JP Morgan Private Bank and you need to figure out what's next? Excellent question. I retired from Morgan after decades of being there. The organization had evolved to a much bigger enterprise and was a place         that I probably was ready to move on from in terms of my own personal growth. Coincidentally to that, my husband was retiring and a dear friend of mine, Campbell Garish who is the cofounder of Third Half was also stepping back from his firm. While I was doing consulting work, I was watching these two try to navigate the stepping back part and it was amazingly complicated.       Need For Transition Support I was surprised at how many fragmented resources or lack of resources there were out there, especially in a trusted environment way. Again, our longevity has changed so dramatically. Over the last century, we’ve gained 30 years practically in life longevity and to know the people would be floundering around for not just months but potentially years was striking to me and Campbell and my husband. It spoke to a need in the marketplace for some community to help people have a little light structure in thinking through this next chapter. It was a very compelling need and something I found deeply interesting from my own work with individuals and families. Polly, how about you? My transition very much came from an intentional activity of logging what was energizing and what was draining me. I kept track of it for several months while I was still the Chair of the Department of Management at Antioch University. Over time, I saw a pattern, which was what was energizing me most was coaching and mentoring students and faculty and transitions. What was draining me were some of the academic responsibilities and committees and things like that. I took a giant leap, reinvented myself and began my next career as a coach and facilitator then had the happy coincidence of meeting Campbell, and Caroline and became part of the team. How did you all meet? How did you meet Carolina and Campbell? They asked me to help with a workshop they were delivering because they had another facilitator who I had taught with. Unbeknownst to me, what I was stepping into, I was just headed off to Connecticut to do an hour and a half workshop for Third Half Advisors and before you know it, I was a major part of the team. I am honored to be a part of the work to help people find their way and get inspired and energized for their futures. Polly, it sounds like you had a very logical road map that you set up for yourself to figure out what to do next. Caroline, did you have that too or did you was your approach a little different? The irony is, that's the benefit of being a coach. Polly has a set of tools that she had was thinking through to make the transition for us, the people if you will. That's part of the challenge that we, Campbell, myself, my spouse, and other people in our peer didn't have a set of tools to help navigate this. People are so in love with the autonomy and freedom they have when they transition but, in some ways, they need that life structure and toolset also to help navigate. Our society has created this arc where we're considered “done” in our late 50s and early 60s, yet we potentially have an entire lifetime ahead of us to pursue meaningful work and purpose. It's a real teeter-totter between enjoying the freedom one has and creating a plan for yourself. That's what in Third Half Advisors we spent a lot of time creating. It’s those tools and light structure to help people think through the blueprint that Polly just mentioned. It has been transformative for the people that we work with. Again, when I was transitioning as well as Campbell, it didn't seem like there was a lot out there to help people with that light structure. They're lots of tools for leaders who are actively involved in their workplace. In fact, there's lots of tools from adolescents in helping with transition but a remarkably few tools as page. Longevity & Lack Of Past Tools To your point about our longevity has changed so much, that's part of the reason that we never had those kinds of tools available to us. For me in my case, I had a marketing research consultancy for years and I got out of it because the industry was changing and my life had changed. I was on a vacation and they often say something you get ideas when you’re taking a shower or flying in a plane or whatever. I was listening to a show of somebody I had met in New York and I thought, “I could do that. That's what I used to do. I used to interview people.” That's how I got started. It got the wheels cheering but it wasn't like there was a tool set out there for me either. It took a while. Gail, to your point about the longevity piece. If you're 60-year-old, you have a greater than 50% chance of living to 90 plus. That's a lot of time. Our society is created this arc of we're all done in our late 50s and early 60s, but we almost have a lifetime left potentially of what we could be doing. Society hasn't quite addressed that and we need to create more forums, trusted environments and tools for people to address all that time. What we found is what made people very successful in their careers in a quite different tool set for this next phase where people are grappling with authenticity. They want to be in a more portfolio life strategy, meaning it's not just one thing they're doing but a variety of things. I was going to add. The one thing we've noticed is that people don't even find the word retirement fits with this longevity. We’re rewiring. Transition and we make transition through 2 or 3 more times before we pass away. The thing is, even that model of retirement doesn't fit with this model of longevity. On your website, you use the metaphor like a rugby match. I was wondering how you compare life to rugby match. I thought that was a great metaphor. Could you tell our readers a little bit about how that came about?         To be honest, I'm not a rugby player. Nor am I. Campbell was a rugby player at university. Campbell who couldn't be with us is also a co-founder of Third Half Advisors. As we were thinking about what a good name would be for this program, he was reflecting on his university days where rugby is one of the few games where the opposing teams go to the bar afterwards and enjoy the company of each other and the competition melts away. People just enjoy the camaraderie and the stories of the game, which is analogous to this dividend part of life and that, “This should be the best part of our lives when we are at a point where we can enjoy the fruits of our labor, the competition, and the warrior part of our life.” Reflect and enjoy each other and the community. Also, it's called the third half but in addition, it's that incongruity third half signaling math complication of later life. We don't know how long we're going to live. Is it a full half? It fit nicely in this celebratory third half, which is what rugby players call that and a little bit of the unknown for what this the stage of life is for many people. It stuck and we've continued to use that name. Polly, you're the strength coach. Tell us what that means. During major transitions, people often lose touch with what truly energizes them. They may recognize their talents but forget what they love to do most. Using StrengthsFinder All of the participants in our programs take the Gallup StrengthsFinder Assessment. This is a tool that we have found is incredibly empowering because sometimes, when people are in this big transition, they've lost track of what their greatest energy comes from. They may know their talents but they may have lost track of, what is it I love to do most of all? The StrengthsFinder assessment is a scientific based tool designed by a large group of organizational psychologists from Gallup that has high reliability and validity. Almost 5,000 people a day take it. What we know about it is that one people can name and their strengths, they have a much more likely to be successful and they can create a strategy that is going to be life-giving because they're in their strength zone. We use it as a tool for coaching, programmatic design, and also for just following and tracking our people to check in, how are you doing? Where are you getting stuck? Some of our greatest weaknesses are when we're misusing some of our greatest talents. Walk me through if somebody were come to Third Half Advisors. What happens initially? Tell our readers a little bit about your process. I'll just start because this is the part where I love. We sit with people, Caroline, Campbell and I and we hear their story. We listen in to hear like what's going on, what's going well, what's exciting you, what are you worried about, and where are you stuck. By listening to them and understanding where they're coming from, we can help direct them to which of our program options is going to be the best fit. We have a couple of modalities. One is virtual programming born with many organizations during COVID. We have a group program that is what we call the Blitz version, which is to chunky days of group conversation coupled with individual coaching. As Polly mentioned also, we have one-on-one coaching as well. There's an independent series that people can take. That's the virtual realm. In addition, we have in-person retreats. We have both our own and we work with affinity groups to have programs that lasts anywhere from one day to two and a half days. Those are also extracted. Where are those retreats held usually? They're all over the country. We’ve had them everywhere and continue to build that piece out because people seem to be craving getting together. As a follow-up, we have what we call Lift Series, which is topical information from experts. It's meant to be interactive on Zoom to help people follow up with things that are on their minds around managing the portfolio life. Age doesn’t necessarily have a number—it depends on mindset. Some younger people act much older, and some older people remain youthful in spirit. For us, we are launching a executive women's membership group that's happening and then we will additionally be having a Third Half membership model in the fall. Again, that's to help people think about everything from creative pursuits to board membership, being a director to consulting work to work travel. Those are all the things we're working with clients on. I keep getting things on LinkedIn myself. I don't know if they're bogus or not, about, “We want you to be on our board or whatever.” I don't have an interest in that but I'm not sure they're even legitimate. It's through LinkedIn. I'm getting as well a lot of different types of solicitations. I'm not sure where they're not necessarily coming from. I would say the board work in general that they have is emblematic of what people love to do because it's flexible. It doesn't require a consistent obligation. The construct of it is nice because a couple times a year, potentially. You have a group of interesting people around a common goal in the company. Often, for public companies, there's either equity or potentially compensation associated with it. What I would say, though, is boards and board membership are not all created equally. To Polly's point, you want to be careful when you go on a board that it's a role that you want. If you spent your whole career on governance and that's not something that likes you up. Don't join a board where you're head of governance all of the sudden because filling a calendar for our group, what we're finding is that's not energizing. We want to be careful with our clients to make sure it's what they're moving towards of burning yes. Not just building their calendar with stuff to spend time on. The essence board work is appealing but it can be created in other ways like consulting and other types of flexible opportunities. To Polly's point, we want to make sure these are very individual conversations around what those next stage looks like. I would say no to people that are going the same way. Caroline, do you notice any trends among different ages? In other words, if people come to you who are, let's say, 65 or 75 maybe or maybe a little older. Are there any trends of what these people end up doing? It's interesting because I don't know if chronology is the factor more than curiosity. To me, I see amongst all age groups that curiosity dictates the next step. Clearly, people who are in their later 70s and 80s have slightly more challenging health experiences. They may also be with a partner who's having nice experience. That caregiving role is something that's entering in more explicitly for that age group but Polly, I'm curious about your thoughts as well. Not to sound cliché but age doesn't necessarily have a number because it depends on the mindset. There are some much better people who act much older and vice versa. Polly, maybe you want to add in your thoughts.         One of the beauties of the Third Half Advisors is we attract anybody from 40 years old to 80 years old and all points in between. It's the cross pollination of these different ages that has helped us to see that there are certain patterns. No matter where you are, whether you’re 40 or 50 or 60 or just about to leave your job or been out of work for ten years. People can support, give guidance, and reflect. By being on this familiar path of transition, I would agree with Caroline. It's not so much how old you are as much as a mindset of, what is it I'm longing to do most of all that's going to give me a life filled with joy and energy? Who are the people I want to have walking with me on this journey? What we’ve noticed is we can have this beautiful pair of a 45-year-old sitting with a 68-year-old and have so much in common. It is those commonalities that they are able to build the next chapter for themselves. You're right. I live in a community where there's people of bearing ages and it is your commonality, whether I have friends who are older than I am or younger that draw you together. The commonality of purpose or feeling like you have a strong sense of purpose is ageless. We do know that there's 33% lower risk of a stroke and 22% of client for people cross the board who have those strong sense of purpose. That is very important no matter what age you are to keep that sense of purpose. That's why it's challenging to have the words like retirement, which means to withdraw. That is technically definition of it and we don't want anyone to be withdrawing. I don't like word senior. I wish they was another word for senior. The other thing that's complicated is the word reinvent because for many people, this is their shot at being authentic and it's not they have to reinvent themselves. It's more about finding the core of who they are and the values that resonate for them that maybe late all along. Some of our exercises take people back to early or dreams and hopes. What we do and why the Gallup StrengthFinder is so helpful is we're focusing on the positive people and the essence of them. We're not trying to change them or make them someone else necessarily. That’s also important. Let me ask you this. When somebody comes to Third Half Advisors, the first step would be to maybe sit down with Polly or with Caroline or Campbell or whatever and you do this profiling and you help them figure out. What's the timeline on that? The community piece is so valuable, and the isolation people feel after leaving the workplace can be profoundly untethering. It's driven personally by our clients. Some people are, as you can imagine, we have some successful executives who want results right away. We have to manage those expectations, but sometimes it's a year-long process. This is definitely a very iterative process. Not a one and done type of thing. The timeline is person specific. We try to use tools that they can bring with them on the journey to for however long they want to be engaged in all the unique and wonderful things that a life has to offer. We give them a toolkit that they might use, helps them, they get started, and it can reimagine what's next. Three years from then, it might shift again because there's a change in health, location, or in family structure. They have this toolkit they can go back to and then they sometimes come back to us for a refresh or conversation or coaching session. We like to see ourself is not a one and done company. We want to get people launched in onto their next chapter and season of life but that's why we have these lifts series and retreats. We're trying to encourage people to come back because just like purpose. It’s one of the things we all have in common, so is community and having strong sense of community is one of the key things to people traveling together on this. We find people coming to our retreats and they start to form friendships and support each other. We had an example where this group of women were on a retreat and there was a little affinity group of people who were taking care of their parents. They were talking about how hard it was. They were working and had parental care. About ten days after the session ended, one of them lost her father. The outpouring of love from the participants in this group sympathizing and empathizing, what can we do, we're here for you. It was unbelievable how quickly this group of people who had only spent two and a half days together rallied around this woman who lost her dad. That's so nice. That's a great story, Polly. It’s powerful. Importance Of Community The community piece is so valuable and the isolation people feel after they leave their workplace is very profound for people and untethering. We talked about the honeymoon period of leaving your work and this dip part. Our job is help with the dip because it can feel very dislocating in the following months of changing workplace. It's been a pleasure talking to both of you. If there's anything else you'd like to tell our readers, they sure like to hear because this has been a fascinating conversation, useful and helpful. Anything else? It's been a pleasure.         The more that we can support each other in this phase of life and continue to reach out for help on this. It's important both for men and women. We hate to hear people silently suffering around this. We certainly hope that people do feel comfortable talking about this because it is a real and challenging thing that our society is facing. Age is a thing in our country and we need to pivot and think about what mastery and community looks like especially as people's families tend to disperse more and community and clan is changing for many people as they age. That was the basis for my starting this show. I feel that older people and we're living longer have so much wisdom to dispense and your life isn't over at 65. That's why I have a lot of older people on the show, too. Much older than you, Caroline and Polly, but it's been a pleasure. How would my readers reach you if they want to reach out to you? What's the best way? It's through our website that they're able to communicate with us. That’s hopefully pretty obvious way to just contact us. The website is ThirdHalfAdvisors.com. Gail, you're doing wonderful work as well. Keep on as they say. Thank you, Caroline. It’s a pleasure to meet you both. Thanks for inviting us. Bye-bye. Thank you, Gail. Important Links Caroline Becker on LinkedIn Polly Chandler Website Third Half Advisors   About Caroline Becker Co-Founder Accomplished executive, savvy networker, passionate advocate. After more than 25 years of experience in the financial services/investment world—with Bankers Trust, Chemical Bank, and the J.P. Morgan Private Ban—Caroline understands how to synthesize client needs, align them with sustainable solutions, and execute with precision.    About Polly Chandler Program Designer, Senior Coach & Facilitator Polly is expert in the Clifton Strengthfinder, a critical tool for those transitioning into their Third Half and a fundamental part of our core day. Polly helps people articulate their strengths in the context of what brings them joy and energy, providing clarity and direction for members of our community by connecting what people do well to their happiness and purpose.
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  Super Ager & Super Helper: Dr. Katzman, 97, Solves My Tech Crisis! 25.05.2025 15นาที

    Dr. Melvern Katzman is an amazing example of someone who is growing older with gusto and with a great sense of humor. He is a family man who cherishes his family connections, and has a revolving list of hobbies that keep him current and focused. He has the can do it spirit that has navigated him throughout his 97 years! — Watch the episode here    Listen to the podcast here    Super Ager & Super Helper: Dr. Katzman, 97, Solves My Tech Crisis! Welcome to the show. We are continuing a series of episodes with people who are considered to be super-agers. Dr. Melvern Katzman, who lives in Toronto, is 97 years young and will be talking to us about what it takes to get to his age. Dr. Katzmann practiced optometry for 60 years, was actively involved in his professional organizations, his faith, and was a leader for Habitat for Humanity. Most recently, at age 97, he chaired his condo buildings 40th anniversary party. He is definitely growing older with Gusto. Let's get started.      Welcome to the show, Dr. Katzman. Thank you very much for having me. Staying Vital At Any Age: Dr. Katzman's Secret Sauce To Joyful Aging I just have to tell my listeners, this is like so impressive before we even start the conversation. Dr. Katzman was having some trouble getting onto the podcast recording platform. He showed you effort like within a half hour, he did it all figure out, and here we are. I'm so impressed because I am a techno Neanderthal, and you're 97 years old, and I couldn't do what you did. I'm impressed. I wanted to ask you, people who come on our show or are selected because they've shown by example, their attitude towards growing older, and you're growing older in a positive and productive way. What would you tell someone who's maybe 50 years old what to do and how to grow older without being fearful of growing older? Let's say this. I really provided for my old age. I have many hobbies and I'm involved in the community, involved in my condo. When my time came to retire, I had plenty of things to do to keep my mind off being feared. Tell us a little bit about what you did to stay vital all these years. What were some of your hobbies? I know you do genealogy, and check me out. That was pretty impressive, too. I’m a stamp collector, a coin collector, involved with the condo, which I expanded into being involved with the federal government, the provincial government, and the municipal government. I'm quite active in the community. What would you say to our readers that has given you the greatest strength as you navigate through life's ups and downs? I think I'd have to go back to my family, my mother, my father, my in-laws, and one uncle who is my mentor. They provided a lot to me. They were the ones who made Mel Katzman. A Love Story & Lasting Connections: Family & Friends At 97 Dr. Katzman, tell our readers the wonderful story about how you met your wife. Believe it or not, it was that mentor uncle who made a blind date. He once had a function. He saw my supposed next and my wife, and he said, “That would be a nice girl for Mel.” We made a date, but he didn't realize her age. She was 17 and I was 24 and she wouldn't refuse the date because of my uncle. When we saw each other, that was it. Love at first sight, right? It's amazing. Talk to our readers a little bit about the importance of creating and keeping a strong circle of friends. There aren't too many friends. There aren't too many of my friends left. I seem to be the last one. What has happened? Children learn by observing and copying the actions and habits of adults. Throughout your life, I know you must have had a wide circle of friends. I had a lot of friends. Most of them, believe it or not, were younger than my wife and I. From my synagogue was one source. We belong to many organizations, and my activities in the community have created a lot of friends. Why do you think that you and your wife were drawn to younger people, or I should say, they were drawn to you? Why? We both enjoyed life. We were a happy couple, and we met happy people. That is very important. You mentioned having a lot of hobbies. I know you love genealogy. In stamp collecting, coin collecting, are there any other things that have given you great pleasure that's ongoing even? I think that my family has most people who want you to chat with them. They tell you that their family is very important. They contribute to your longevity. What is important to me besides I have a wonderful family, and I am needed. That is important to me. It's amazing when the family, the love that they give, extends life in my family, and being chronically blessed. I couldn't ask for more. They fulfill my needs with love. They also have given me something just as important, the feeling of being needed, which gives me a sense of purpose, belonging, and being important in our lives. I cannot go anywhere. They need me. The Power Of Being Needed: Finding Purpose & Fulfillment In Later Life I think that's so amazing because you're one of the first people on the podcast to really talk about that so important quality of being needed, and having a purpose in life. I know having a purpose in life is so important to growing older with Gusto. I know because your daughter reached out to me that obviously what everything you're saying is absolutely 100% authentic. I just think it says a lot about you and the type of father you were and grandfather. Tell us a little bit about your family. I have to bring in my wife. My wife is an exceptional person. How long were you married? 69 years. What I have and what we gave to our children, I give it all to her. She brought up that we now have seven doctors in the family, two lawyers, one CP, and one who didn't follow me, but took over one of my hobbies, which was construction, and he's in the construction industry. Tell us about your hobby in construction. You sent me a photo of a beautiful chair. Tell us about that. It was weak. My wife and I used to go around to antique shows, and we picked up this old chair, and I loved Mackenzie-Child. Her type of art. I painted the chair in her style. I've done other pieces of furniture. I've made furniture for my children and grandchildren. Very interesting for my grandson's Bar Mitzvah. I did the complete venue. He loved camping. I don't know if of Algonquin Park. The whole venue was Algonquin Park.     Tell us a little bit more about what it looked like. As you entered, there was a sign that you would like a highway sign made out of trees, and on it was his whole life. In other words, it's where he came from and what he did. I made a large boat that was filled with candy. Each table which not numbered would have the lakes in Algonquin Park. I made passports. You need a passport to get into Algonquin Park. That's so cute. Very creative. What was the color scheme? Outdoor green and white. That's amazing. Do you have any favorite sayings or philosophies for living the good life, which I know you do? I have many sayings, and my grandchildren and my children know them all. They fit situations, but one of my favorite sayings is “Monkey see monkey do.” I believe that children learn by observing and copying the actions and habits. My wife and I have tried to educate by example. I really like that. Lately, I've been reading a lot about what they call neuroplasticity of our brains, which basically they're saying your brain can change at any age, and in order to keep it supple and keep it going, there are certain things you should do, and obviously, you've done those. I'd like you to share your wisdom with our readers and talk a little bit about what you think makes for a strong brain. I just think that I gained active. As you can see, we have problems getting on. I didn't give up. You didn't. You're amazing. Right in the very beginning. It's so amazing. I played with it, and that's my life. I won't give up on anything. I can sit for days and take time to find something, that's just my style. That's great. Thinking back on your lifetime, what have been some of the largest societal changes during your life so far? Navigating The Digital World: Tech, Change, And Living In The Now I think technology. I think that it's affected every aspect of our lives. The internet, the smartphone, social media, and the way we were socialized to communicate. Just imagine if I had the ability to speak to my father, and I tell him that we're talking, I see you, you see me, and it's instantaneous. It's just, I think that made a big change. Are you on social media? The key to a wonderful marriage is respect for one another. Yes. What are you on? Facebook. How about Instagram? No. We will post this on Facebook for sure so that you can see it. Aside from I will obviously email you everything. What do you think about robots and artificial intelligence? That's going to be a big problem. I sit and think since you brought it up when I was doing research work, let's say 50 years ago, I would have to go to the library, pick out a book, sit and take a little piece out of the book to do my search, come back the next day, find another book. Just imagine I can get on the Internet and find information within seconds. I can write a research report within half an hour to an hour that it would take me days to do. Pretty amazing. What has inspired you throughout your life? What's been the most inspirational thing for you? My wife. What was her name? Rene. It's such a lovely love story. It's wonderful. That was 69 years of an exceptional marriage. They say time heals. It isn't a guarantee. It hasn't worked for me.       I know. On a positive note, what would you give somebody getting married? A young couple getting married, what advice would you give them to have a wonderful life and marriage together? Respect for one another. How does one show respect within a marriage in your terms? In my terms, it would be you've got to honor what she thinks, and she'll honor what you think. Listen, in every family, there are hot discussions and arguments, but the nicest part is making up. Any other words of wisdom for the secret sauce to living a joyful and wonderful life like the one you're living? Anything else that you can impart to our readers? I think that my friends, the very interesting as you asked about friends before, like I said, there are not too many of my friends left. As my children grew up, they gathered in our home, they slept over, and my children's friends went on vacations with us. Now that I'm older, they have become my friends. Just this last Sunday, my daughter was away, my older daughter was on call, and I was invited by their friend for Sunday supper. We had a long discussion. It was just like being at home with my children. It's important because if I didn't have them, I would settle. I also know that having a sense of humor is so important, and I know you have a wonderful sense of humor. I experienced your sense of humor when I asked if you were going to be free on certain dates, and you said, “Absolutely.” You gave me your whole schedule of being free from that day until the end of this year, anytime. It was so cute. Very funny. Anyway, I'm out of questions unless you want to say anything else. This has been wonderful hearing everything that you have to say. It's so important and valuable when wonderful. I thank you. I appreciate the opportunity, and thank you very much. By the way, if you need any help with your computer. Give me a phone call and I’ll help you. I know who to call. That's cute. Thank you so much for being on the show. You're more than welcome. Thank you. You're welcome. Readers, please tune in on any podcast platform. Please share this episode with your friends and family and send in a comment to our website at www.GrowingOlderWithGusto.com. Remember to always stay calm and stay connected.     Important Links Growing Older with Gusto Growing Older with Gusto on YouTube Growing Older with Gusto on Facebook Gail Zugerman on X
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  Thriving At 102: Dr. Robert Farber’s Secrets To A Fulfilling Life 11.04.2025 12นาที

      How often do you get to hear from someone who’s 102 years old, sharp as a tack, and still living life with passion and purpose? In this episode of Growing Older with Gusto, host Gail Zugerman sits down with Dr. Robert Farber, a retired neonatologist pediatrician from Toronto, Canada. Dr. Farber shares his secrets to a long, fulfilling life—filled with family, friendships, and a love for sports (and yes, he still plays a mean game of Bridge!). He reflects on decades of medical practice, the joys of watching his grandchildren thrive, and his thoughts on the ever-changing world. Tune in for a heartwarming and inspiring conversation with Dr. Farber—proof that growing older with gusto is all about living with love, laughter, and resilience! — Watch the episode here     Listen to the podcast here     Thriving At 102: Dr. Robert Farber’s Secrets To A Fulfilling Life How To Grow Older With Gusto I'm so excited because we have a very special guest on the show coming to us from Toronto, Canada. His name is Dr. Robert Farber. It's a pleasure to welcome you to the show. He has so many things to talk about. Most importantly, as most of you readers know, we love to talk to people who are growing older in a positive productive way. Dr. Farber is an incredible example of somebody who was now 102 and sharp as a tack and interesting. I'm going to stop talking because we got to talk to talk to Dr. Farber about all his secrets on how he got to where he is. Welcome to the show, Dr. Farber. How are you doing? How are things in Toronto? A little cool but bright. We're terribly worried about Trump. That could be a whole another episode. Tell me a little bit about what you like to do when you were growing up. What was like some of your favorite activities. I'm a very big sports fan. I'm still a big sports fan now. I loved fishing. My elder son and I went all over Canada in Northwest Territory and caught some big fish. What kind of fish? Is it Pike or salmon? What were you catching?         We're catching mostly Pickerel. You call them Walleye. Big eye. What's the biggest fish you've ever caught? I got a recording from the Minister of Fisheries in Manitoba. It was a 48 inches Pike. It’s an action release. You caught it and then you let it go. One of the reasons that you were recommended to me to be on the show is, we love talking to people like you who are navigating through life in a way that is inspirational. I wanted to ask you, what would you tell someone who's at midline about what they should be doing and enabling them to grow older without being afraid of being older? Is any advice you would give to them? What will I advise them? What did you do to reach your state? Sit back and relax. You can’t do anything about faith. What did you do to stay vital throughout your life? You said you like sports. Were you actively involved in a particular sport? I'm 6 foot one and a half, so I played a little bit of college of basketball. I grew up in a small town in Canada in Brantford, Ontario. I could skate beautifully. As a matter of fact, one of my closest friends Sam Kennedy eventually became a Detroit Red Wings Star. This is hockey. You played hockey? I could play hockey. Did you any other physical activities at midlife that you enjoyed? Physical activity? Making love to my wife. You don't need anything to maintain a friendship. It just exists. How long are you married? 65 years. Dr. Farber's Career As A Pediatrician Congratulations. That's quite a milestone. I know you're a physician. What medicine did you practice? I was a pediatrician. A child’s specialist. Did you specialize in sleeping disorders with kids or anything special? Yes, neonatal work, newborns. Worked with sick kids a little over for 35-40 years. What is giving you the greatest strengths as you've moved through your life aside from being a doctor? My family. Family As His Greatest Strength And Joy Tell me a little bit about your family. I have three children, two boys and a girl. I have four granddaughters. They are married to four beautiful people. I have six great grandchildren. The oldest is now in the University. I can’t get over how I cherish them so much. Do they live nearby? They all live in Toronto except my eldest son who is a lawyer in New York. He practices theater law. That's how I was giving your name through your son. He thought you would enjoy being on the show. Let’s chat a little bit about friendships. I know family is important, but I've been told and other people I've talked to, as you grow older it's important to maintain relationships with other people and to be in touch with other people. How do you feel about that? Would you agree?        We had two other couples that we were extremely close to. Unfortunately, 3 of the 4 have passed away and there's only one living. I speak to her about every couple week and we say hello. She always invites me over for a false steak’s supper. What does that mean? She lurs you over with the promise of a steak supper then she gives you chicken? She says that, “I'm going to make you a steak supper.” That’s nice. Any tips for people as they grow older on how to maintain friendships? You don't need anything to maintain a friendship. It just exist. My best friend was named Billy Clairfield. His wife was very beautiful and very good friends with my wife. There is a Dr. Buckman, who was a dentist. He ruined all my teeth, but we were great friends. We had other friends but not as close as this. My wife spokes to her friends almost every day. That is nice. That is special. What would you say is giving you the greatest pleasure that you still derived pleasure from? Anything that you can think of? My grandchildren. I adore them. I worry about them a lot but they are all doing well. I'm sure you're a good role model. Do you have any favorite sayings or philosophy on living a good life? Not really. Enjoy every day. Let me ask you this, if you were given a pill and you woke up, you were 30 years younger than you are. What would you do differently? I would certainly go fishing. My son is going up to Alaska and I would certainly be going with him. Thinking back during your lifetime, what have been the greatest changes in society in your life time? Electronics by all means. Financially, I'm stable, but I worry a little bit about my health, but what the heck? I'm 102. How do you feel about those changes? They're good. Excellent. When my kids go away on vacation, I can Skype them every day. I can't believe that. It is pretty nice. Isn't it? Excellent. What is been most inspirational to you throughout your life? My work. I enjoyed every single day. How did you decide to go into that specialty? I had a problem with my eyes. Originally, I wanted to be an obstetrician and gynecologist but my eyes wouldn't allow me. I did an internship at Sick Kids Hospital and I fell in love with it. His “Secret Sauce” To A Joyful Life That's nice story. What can you tell our readers, I would call this your secret sauce to living a joyful and juicy life like you've had? What's your secret to being 102, thriving, and having a good life? Being financially stable and having the greatest kids and grandchildren in all my life that anyone could have and loving sports. What do you do now? What do you do to keep yourself busy since you retired? I play bridge. I play well. I watch sports. I watch every leaf game and every baseball game. I fight with my caregiver. What do you fight about? She seems very nice. She says I don't listen to her enough. I said I listen to her too much. She's a very nice person.         Is there anything else you want to talk about with me? Is there any questions that I haven't been asking you? No. I’m giving you the essence of my life. My wife is unbelievable. My family, I couldn't have asked for anything better. Financially, I'm stable and I worry a little bit about my health but what the hell, I'm 102. You seem pretty good to me. How are things in Toronto? You said you had a few concerns about the new administration. Do you want to talk about that at all? He’s made a mistake. We talked about friends before. Canada was a good friend of the United States. A very good friend and he's destroyed that forever. The people in Toronto that you talk to agree with you about this situation. We never join in it. We love you and that people in the states. We love United States, but we never become a 40-50 first state. Never. I love it. You got great spirit. Dr. Farber, I'm out of questions. I want to thank you so much for talking to me. It's been my pleasure to have on the show. You've been a great guest. For all you readers, please share this episode with all your friends and family. This is a treat. How often do we get to speak with somebody who's 102, thriving and vital? It's been wonderful. How about saying, next year, same time, same place? I do. Next year, same place, same time. You're on. You got it. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. Sure. Bye-bye.
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  Finding Your Tribe In The Digital Age With Matthew Edgerton 10.02.2025 29นาที

    Matthew Edgerton is using personal life experiences and work background to help an aging population find their tribe and grow older with gusto. In this conversation with Gail Zugerman, he shares how he interviewed all types of people, from the aging in independent living to their caregivers and family members, to create his business model called Cogensus. Matthew sheds light on the lack of stimulation among older people and how he strives to determine the best way to get them engaged in life. He also explains how Cogensus uses AI in creating family memoirs that will give people a purpose and something to add to their legacy. — Watch the episode here   Listen to the podcast here   Finding Your Tribe In The Digital Age With Matthew Edgerton Our guest is an enterprising man from California who has been shaped by life experiences to leave the world a better place by helping people as they grow older. His name is Matthew Edgerton, and he's launching a company in 2025 called Cogensus, which he has created through his background of being a thought leader in the areas of artificial intelligence, innovation strategy, and product development. Prior to his latest endeavor, Cogensus, Matthew led the global strategy and GTM for the communication and media division of Accenture, Microsoft's cloud-first practice. Matthew has so much to tell us about how he got to where he is, so I'd like to welcome him to the show. Welcome, Matthew. Gail, thanks for having me. How Matthew’s Experiences Shaped Cogensus You told me you're shaped by your personal experiences. Let's start there. Can you tell our readers how this played into you starting your own company called Cogensus? Great name, by the way. Thank you. The personal experience I referenced was the particular passing of my grandfather. When I was a little guy, I spent a lot of time with my granddad. He watched me a lot from the ages of 1 to 11, when he passed away. My grandpa, I learned later in life, was a pretty exemplary guy. He went through a lot of interesting life experiences. Growing up with him in the context of being his grandchild, I was not exposed to any of that because there are a lot of adult topics you just can't talk to a child about.     I understand totally. When I was in my late twenties, I one day stumbled upon his online obituary, and it referenced a couple of things that I didn't know. I went on a research journey of my own to learn more about my grandpa. I learned that he joined World War II at seventeen. He fought and served and got a Purple Heart and a Silver Star. He came back and tried to commit suicide and then survived. A lot of intense life experiences. It's a shame that we don't have more clarity and depth on what happened there. That colored my experience. In the age of AI, I thought that a lot of people are going to be getting older. It'll be a real shame if their combined histories pass away without being saved in some form or fashion. That was one of the personal experiences that caused me to move in this direction. This is somewhat professional, but in 2022, I helped the United Nations. I wrote some climate standards for them. You can find it under the ITU group. Effectively, they have these things called SDGs, which are Sustainable Development Goals. There's a big focus on both preserving the histories of the world. That could be all kinds of different communities, including indigenous folks, all the way up to helping the world as it ages. That was where I first got exposed to this broader problem about, I’ll call it the aging world that we live in. We are going to be entering a time where we have a lot more people over the age of 60 than under it. That causes a whole bunch of both societal as well as localized changes that need to occur. By taking that into account and trying to be a positive person and leave a positive impact, and then my own personal experiences. That is what shaped Cogensus effectively. Importance Of Social Connections And Combating Loneliness There is a lot of talk about the importance of social connections and how it becomes increasingly important as we grow older to maintain and create new connections. Can you talk to our readers about social isolation versus loneliness versus social connectedness? There are three interrelated but distinct concepts, and we flirt with all of them as people of the world, at any age. Firstly, loneliness is a broader construct. Loneliness is defined in a whole bunch of different ways, but in a very simple way, it's you feel alone. Whether or not you are physically alone. For example, you feel isolated to some degree. You don't feel connected with people next to you. Loneliness can be defined in many different ways. But simply put, it is the feeling of being alone, whether or not you are physically alone. It's those whole host of negative feelings that when someone says, “I am lonely,” they could be surrounded by people in a physical sense but feel no relation to them. Typically, loneliness is defined as the interrelated experience between you and I and other people. That feeling is interpersonal. Social isolation is the act of being isolated. That could be a physical or circumstantial situation where you yourself are alone. When you are in a room by yourself, you are isolated. That can also take place, meaning that you are more isolated from a community, because maybe you live in a rural setting, or maybe, as a lot have happened, unfortunately, people pass away near to you. You become isolated within your localized group. That's social isolation. Social connectedness is a psychology concept, which is the specific measurement to some degree of your social network. Social network does not mean social media. Social network means I have two best friends. I have three acquaintances. I have one family member. Those are your relationships. The degree to which you feel connected with those people is social connectedness. For example, there's a lot of research better understanding social connectedness, because people who score very low on that scale tend to have problems with social isolation as well as the feeling of loneliness. These three things are now being recognized as health drivers to some degree. They can improve your recovery for something or your chances of readmission for something. These heavily influence those factors. They also, for example, things like cognitive decline, dementia, and a number of other cognitive conditions. If you are socially isolated, you're effectively not as engaged with some of those verbal processing things. Those can cause those conditions to speed up in their severity. That's why it's very important to focus on these concepts, especially as we age, because we become more exposed to some of these realities of the aging body. Do you think that people who are naturally introverted or say they don't need to be around people all the time, or maybe just have a few close friends and that's it? Do they suffer more health-wise than other people? It's interesting because they could be more isolated if we're talking about social isolation, but they could be less lonely. What they find with the loneliness component is that, I'll call it the feelings perspective. Social isolation becomes a problem when you think about access to healthcare or access to emergency contacts. That's why it's good to live in or near a community potentially just for the physical location of people. However, you could live remote and not be lonely at all. You could have a very high degree of social connectedness because a lot of that is self-reporting. You could say, “I feel very connected to my sister who lives across the country. We talk every day.” You might not have those negative perceptions. That's one of the things that I feel social media has been very negative for the world over. In many cases, it can magnify this perception of you feeling alone. Whether or not you're surrounded by people that may have an interest in engaging with you. I would say, an introvert might be better prepared for some of those concepts, versus an extrovert that derives a sense of purpose or activity from the relationship with other people.     Understanding The Social Determinants Of Health Tell us, what are the social determinants of health? Social determinants of health are a concept that have been talked about since 2021, which was when they first made their prime-time appearance. They effectively are non-medical-related factors that influence health outcomes. This is a very broad category. It could be everything from your income to your political outlook to the country you live in. There's a whole bunch of different things. I believe there are about 14 to 20, and they're quite easy to find, the list of SDOH. That's the acronym for it. Is there some level of importance between them? Effectively, what they're finding is that within those SDOH categories, there's a fair degree of causation or correlation. Depending on how you look at it, to health outcomes meaning some of those are very impactful. For example, loneliness and social isolation are SDOH. As of 2025, now the health community in the United States, the NCQA, which is a regulatory body as far as healthcare reimbursers and payers and things of that nature. They've now formally recognized it in their care standards that hospitals need to collect this. What they're finding is that people suffering from unrelated conditions, like cardiac readmission or broken arms or legs or limbs. Depending on your standing within these other categories, your chances of improving can heavily go up or down. What they're finding is those are factors that are both very important from an individual health perspective as well as what they call health economics, which is hospitals knowing if this person might come back. It's very important to understand those as people who are caring for others. You could say clinicians, caregivers, or whatever, because those are now on the minds of healthcare professionals. For us as individuals, it's always interesting to take a look at those SDOHs and just see how you stand because a lot of that is how you feel about those. Where do you stand? I'm doing okay. Again, when I say where you stand, it's how you feel about the categories. For example, we could look at the country you live in as an SDOH, geographic location. For example, just by being in the United States. I benefit from some of the United States infrastructures, whereas that might not apply to someone who lives in a remote province in Southern India or Africa. They don't have access to clean drinking water, for example. Maybe looking at something like education. That's an SDOH. There's a whole bunch of stuff. It's effectively where you slot in with these categories. You could argue that a lot of first-world nations will automatically score higher on those things than someone from a more remote, impoverished area. Finding Your Tribe Vs. Shouting Into The Void Of Social Media You also speak about finding your tribe versus shouting into the void of social media, which I find fascinating. Can you describe to us exactly what you mean by that? This is just my words, truthfully. What I mean by that is, if we think about humans broadly and what it means to be connected and supported by your familial or friend ecosystem. I believe that the human brain can only deal with about 50 to 75 connections before we start dropping them. This is a number I read a long time ago. What that means is, you can only maintain so many relationships. Where you invest that time, it gets dividends back to you from feeling recognized and validated as a person, or if it's wasted energy. I believe that in the world we now live in, we have moved away from what I would call a healthier path or a healthier outlook to community management. For example, not too in the distant past, your community was the people who were physically near you. You had some level of interaction with your family members and you could identify with certain things like, “We mostly agree on that or this or that.” Those relationships may be more fruitful from a management perspective because you will get something more out of those, versus what a lot of people have now been conditioned to and are being conditioned to do is focus their energy outward into the broader social community world. This could be someone on the other side of the world, which you could have something in common with them. The chances of them hanging out with you on a day-to-day basis are very limited. That energy may be going wasted. When we look at things like social connectedness and social isolation, there's some degree of benefit that comes derived from creating a more localized community. When I say your tribe, back in the day, many years ago. People who live in the blue zones. That's one of the main criteria, their tribe or their community around them. I see them every day. An interesting fun fact is my grandmother-in-law. My wife's grandmother, lives in Taiwan. She's 105 and she's surrounded by family members. As anyone can guess, 105 is pretty old. It's one of those things where if you look at her lifestyle, it's very blue zone-ish. She tends to make all her own food at home. She's got her eight children who take care of her. She's highly supported. She's in a localized area and surrounded by her tribe. All those things are very important. For someone who, let's say, moved away from their family to a remote area. They never took the time to integrate with the locals. Their community might be a country away and have no localized community. They are very likely to feel isolated in some form or fashion, whether it be socially or physically. Those become very important for aging with Gusto, as you speak, that you can get out and do things with your communities. The last thing I'll say about that is it's always important to cultivate a new community where you go. I think a lot of people get stuck with, “I have these friends from high school,” that's it. That is very detrimental for aging in place or aging with a better health outcome. It is always important to cultivate a new community wherever you go. Many people get stuck in their past, which has been detrimental for aging with a better health outcome. As somebody who moved to a totally new part of the country with my husband, I feel a community, which is what we wanted to do. It does take some time to find your friends and to learn who people are and what people are who you want to be friends with. It takes some time. It's important for people to know that it's a process, and it's worth doing that.     It's hard. I think everyone recognizes it's harder to make friends as you get older just because there's a lot more there. With your children, it's as simple as, “I have this ball. Would you like to play with me?” The other kid goes, “Yes.” As an adult, you have a lot more accumulated things. I don't want to call them baggage because it's not the right word, but history and memories. That process becomes a little bit more tentative, but it is very important to put some level of effort into it because things happen in life. It's good to have people around you. How Aging And Social Connections Will Evolve In The Future We touched on this a little bit earlier, older people in particular, often have trouble maintaining connections because their friends or family members may pass away, move away, or lose their hearing. How do you see this changing in the future? There's two ways to look at this. There's a pessimistic outlook and an optimistic outlook. I'll give a little of both. The pessimistic outlook is if you look at the world's population, and I just use this broadly. We have a lot of folks getting older or living longer. They're not having as many children. Their children are not having as many children. This is pretty consistent across a lot of first- and second-world economies in the world. Some places are hit very badly. For example, Asia has a huge problem with this. The US is tracking a little bit behind, but still going in that direction. I think it's by 2050, about 20% of the population will be over 65, which is a dramatic number when you think about historical context. What that means is there are going to be a lot more people passing away. At the same time, there are going to be a lot more people aging in similar circumstances. That gives them the capability to form friendships in a more like-to-like comparison, potentially. People around you are experiencing a similar transition, a similar journey in life. There will be something you could identify and be friends with. As we go a couple of generations forward, I think the younger generations may have a bigger problem. The biggest takeaway from that is you need to keep an open spirit. This is a problem that I find. This is one of my personal critiques of social media broadly. Social media effectively finds what causes us to have a strong emotional reaction. Oftentimes, that's negative, and it seeks to magnify those things because they're looking for engagement. At the end of the day, how they get paid is when you click the link and you spend time in the whatever. It could be the news, an article, or videos. It doesn't matter. Those topics are not often good for you. We have much more negative content output than positive because negative just moves faster. People like to rage to themselves. That mindset is very negative because it causes a closing effect. You effectively close yourself off from new experiences and new people. By doing that, you're only harming yourself. It's a personal thing we all have to take some level of responsibility for. The best advice is you've got to keep an open mind and remember that we're not so different across age brackets, ethnicities, all of the above. Ways To Combat Loneliness And Isolation In Older Adults Aside from maybe living in a closely knit community, how can loneliness and isolation be abated for older people? What are some other ways that people can not be lonely and not feel the social isolation? Social isolation is the trickier one because isolation is generally physical. When it is social and physical, it's out. With feeling lonely, it's about understanding your connections. For example, it's very easy for us to lose touch with someone and think, “I won't call them. It's been fifteen years. There's no reason for me to call,” even if you were very close with them. The easiest thing you can do is figure out people that you used to enjoy company with. If there wasn't some horrible schism or chasm that caused you to break apart, reach out to them because they very likely may be thinking the same thing. It takes some level of faith to reach out to someone. Secondarily, this is something that we're looking to assist in our platform. We're going to help by building out effectively these personalized social connection charts that allow you to take an impetus forward and go connect with people that you would like to. Not through our platform, because we're not social media. We're just going to give you, “This is what we view based on what you tell us.” That's one. The last part of this, which is interesting because it sits right next to these things, is purpose. One of the key things about Blue Zone people and people who tend to live a long time is they have a very clear purpose in life. It's something they like, it's something they do and they talk to. It could be a whole bunch of things, but finding your purpose to some degree, the reason to get up and do something every day is what will keep you getting up and doing something every day. People who tend to live a long time typically have a very clear purpose in life.   Role Of Technology In Fighting Loneliness And Aging It’s so true. Aside from social media, what do you see as the role of technology in loneliness and getting older? I think in many ways, outside of a couple of things in tech, that process is going to get a lot better. For example, with Cogensus. We are specifically building our platform to tackle some of those aspects, but what we're seeing is now with wearables and much more advanced data analytics and proactive monitoring, people who traditionally would have been a victim of a health event in an isolated context have now a way to reach out or they're being monitored. We have a much more eyes-on and hands-on approach, where in the past we just didn't. It wasn't uncommon to hear someone who lived in a remote countryside was found two weeks later having passed away from an event. Nobody knew. With now the advent of wearables and their mass scale, it's very easy. The watch you wear every day that tells your time. It could very easily check your heart rate and look for blood sugar. There's a whole bunch of different things. Once we start to get into this aspect of what we're looking at, which is your mental frame of mind, we are entering a new era of how we can better care for someone in this capacity meaning we can start to monitor how you're feeling in a very altruistic way. When you start to express negativity about your circumstances, in theory in the future, there could be some intervention event where we go, “We recognize you're at risk for blank. You may want to do this.” It's not a mandate. It's something purely for your own benefit. I think it's very positive overall. What about artificial intelligence? How do you see that impacting the aging population? Artificial intelligence is one of those very clear double-edged swords. Artificial intelligence has the capacity to do a lot of good stuff, but in many cases, it will be positioned to do not-so-good stuff. I don't necessarily think the people designing it are evil. It's more just a perspective of they're looking for certain milestones or, as I said, engagement points. Those might not always be rooted in what's best for you. For example, one of the key things to watch out for in a number of the AI platforms coming out is what they call unhealthy attachments. We're getting into an age where they can very clearly simulate an avatar that looks identical to you and me. Artificial intelligence is one of those clear double-edged swords. It has the capacity to do a lot of good. But in many cases, it can be positioned to do otherwise. I was going to ask you next about robots. How do you feel about robots? I know that people who are older, there are dogs or robotic dogs to help, which I thought was clever. The robots are far less concerning than some of these digital avatars. The reason I say that is, if someone is older and someone grew up in a very different time. Potentially, they have early stages of cognitive decline of some form or fashion. They might not understand that they're talking to someone that isn't real when it looks just like you and me on a health application. By the way, in the New York Times, there was a long story about a woman who was married who got involved. I don't know whether it was an avatar, but it was some artificial man online. She's having a real relationship with. Did you hear about that? It was very bizarre. I didn't hear about that one in particular, but that's not uncommon. That's probably my biggest. For example, within Cogensus, we do not, at this time, use realistic avatars on purpose. We have a very strong MD psychiatric bend in our technology. We use cartoon avatars on purpose because our intention is not to remove humans from the equation. Whereas a lot of applications of AI are what I call siloing applications. They're designed to appeal to you and specifically you and zone in so deeply that you get very attached to it. From a perspective of how we expand social communities and keep you healthy in these outcomes, that is the worst thing you could do. How Cogensus Can Help People Age With Gusto Tell our readers more about Cogensus. I want to know more about and understand this business that you're launching. How is it going to help people age more healthfully and with Gusto? Our platform is effectively three pillars. These pillars were created based on a lot of field research that I did. Before I launched this company, I went out and interviewed and spoke with a number of people across a whole bunch of different positions. These would be people in active in different kinds of care homes. These could be totally independent senior living. These could be people who still live in their own home and apartment, like no problem. They're not in any community. The people in memory care and a whole bunch of things. The caregivers that worked with them, clinicians that supported them, and their family members. I spoke with a lot of people. There were three things that jumped out to us as being very important. First and foremost, people experiencing loneliness and social isolation are not stimulated on a verbal activity basis on a day-to-day. What happens is they reach out to everyone around them. That could be things as well. To your point, they could start talking with an online chat app. They could reach out to customer service. That's from a deficit of activity. The first part of Cogensus is we have an AI-supported journaling feedback engine. Effectively, you can engage with this as if you were talking with you and me. Its function is not to guide you in any particular direction, but rather engage you in communication that stimulates where you want to go with it. The idea being, you talk about how you're feeling. You can talk about any event. You can just talk. It will engage with you as if you were talking with someone who was getting to know you. Over time, it will get to know you better. What we do with that is we take those conversations, and we extract indicators around verbal, memory, and mood. Those are the three. We're looking for indicators about how you're doing. Those are, when you allow them, shared with your provider. This could be a caregiver, a doctor, or whoever. It has to be a medical professional of some form or fashion. That's the key part. We're looking for things like, are you starting to mix up words? Are you misremembering things? Are you just sad? There's a whole bunch. A perfect use case for this is the loss of a spouse. This person can be perfectly, physically, and mentally able, but losing a spouse is a very traumatic activity. Especially with regards to social connectivity like you're connected to your spouse very deeply and typically. That puts you at risk for other comorbidities. It's very common for people to pass away after their spouse goes. We want to look at that. We want to make sure that you aren't at risk for negative health outcomes. Those insights are given to your doctor. The last part, which is a personal interest of mine, but also mirrors back to my broader career, is we give the user and the elderly person, the ability to take those conversations and create pictorial and textual memoirs. They can create memory books about their existence. We AI support that so you can make cool imagery and book entries and all kinds of stuff. Over time, those get packaged. You have this very robust living history of what you want to share. It's not trying to create you. There are a couple of AI platforms that say, “Give us all your stuff. We'll recreate you as an avatar.” That's not our goal. Do you do that by using photos they share with you or asking questions of them? How does that work? As I said, when you speak with the AI platform, let's say you want to talk about your dog, Shirley. You can tell the story about your dog and it will engage with you as if it's a normal person saying, “Tell me more about your dog. What kind of dog?” The point of that is for you to be able to recollect and say, “Create a memory of my dog, Shirley.” It will give you different options. You can create a pretty realistic version of your dog, Shirley. You can do that with a sample text effectively to make your book. The reason for this piece of the platform is that one of the biggest things that was called out between family members and people living in communities or by themselves or whatever, was the lack of communication transparency between the family members. If you're remotely far, again, you could be isolated but not lonely. We can solve or start to solve some of that, which is, family members want to be able to better engage with their aging relatives in some way. They feel very guilty, traditionally, about having to put them somewhere. The person being moved or transitioning in life is very shocken up. It's hard and chaotic. This gives them a way to collaborate on these memories and create these shared family memoirs. The idea being, one of the most important things as someone ages is to know that your life made a difference. The biggest way to do that is to know about the impact you made on yourself and others. You can create that now in our platform. It sounds like not only are you giving people a purpose, but then you're creating a bit of a legacy for them too. That was a big part for me because, again, this calls back to my grandpa. If he had this tool, it would be very impactful for he would have created a cool book. Unfortunately, we lost my mother-in-law. She passed away early from cancer. It was very clear as she dealt with the disease how important it was for her to share certain memories and pass on history. Without a tool like this, which is a problem a lot of people are facing. It's not just us. Everyone has a story or two about this. It's very hard to capture all those memories in a singular instance, especially when you're engaging in long-term care of some sort. Those memories are typically 30 seconds to a minute shared in passing and they're gone. Without a tool that can quickly capture those and then later help you import and create those. They go into the ether. That's why that function, of all the functions is the most important to me from what I call a social good perspective. Matthew, it sounds like you've done something good here in creating Cogensus. I would like to let our readers know how to reach you or how to learn more about Cogensus, more than we could share in this short episode. We are trying. We're building something that we believe will be impactful for the world over. It's as simple as going to www.Cogensus.com. That's how you get there. You could reach out to us through the website. Our intention is to go live with the product for our early test in August of 2025. We hope after that, you will start to see it in the market. At that point in time, we are also working with insurance companies to allow this to be reimbursable. Our goal is to make this available to as many people as possible out the gate. Our current model is that we sell through healthcare institutions and senior care communities. Once we're live, you could get that, ask your providers to look into what we're doing and then they can help procure that for you. Thank you, Matthew. This has been a great episode, and thank you for reading this show. If you'd like to learn more about our show, please go to www.GrowingOlderWithGusto.com or check out our YouTube channel. Remember to stay curious and stay connected. Thank you, Gail.   Important Links ITU Matthew Edgerton on LinkedIn Cogensus Gail Zugerman on LinkedIn Growing Older with Gusto Growing Older with Gusto on YouTube   About Matthew Edgerton Matthew had 15 years experience as a leader of Global Strategy and GTM for Comms & Media Division of Accenture's Microsoft's Cloud First Practice.